Does Shanahans refusal to play younger players equate to ineptitude

[skinny21]

our last 4 seasons of defensive drafting have hurt badly.

2010: Perry Riley: below average MILB

2011: Kerrigan: quality starter

2011: Jarvis Jenkins: decent depth at DL

2011: DeJon Gomes: Released (currently on Lions)

2011: Brandyn Thompson: out of the league?

2011: Markus White: out of the league?

2011: Chris Neild: injured (not even sure hes still on the team?)

2012: Keenan Robinson: IR

2012: Richard Crawford: waived/released

2012: Jordan Bernstine: waived/released

2013: David Amerson: solid rookie starter

2013: Brandon Jenkins: cant get on field

2013: Phillip Thomas: IR

2013: Baccari Rambo: mediocre depth safety

so shanny has drafted 14 defensive players since 2010. Kerrigan, Riley, Amerson, Rambo, and Jenkins are the only ones who see the field. only 3 are starters.

we have to do a better job drafting. the only hope (and thats very longshot) is that injured guys like neild/robinson/thomas can contribute next year coming off of injury.

Well, Robinson, Jenkins, Crawford and Thomas all would have likely seen PT if not for injuries. It's possible Bernstein can be added to the list. The only other one on your list not drafted in round 6 or later is Gomes. And Nield has been playing...

So what we need is to devote more high round picks to the D.

[Garcon More Wine]

Well, Robinson, Jenkins, Crawford and Thomas all would have likely seen PT if not for injuries. It's possible Bernstein can be added to the list. The only other one on your list not drafted in round 6 or later is Gomes. And Nield has been playing...

So what we need is to devote more high round picks to the D.

 

damn, neild has been playing, thats how invisible hes been haha (although hes only got credit for 4 games).

 

and it doesnt always take high picks to find D guys, or O guys for that matter.  just takes smart drafting to find guys who fit your scheme, something i dont think we do a great job of.

[Riggo#44]

our last 4 seasons of defensive drafting have hurt badly.

 

2010: Perry Riley: below average MILB

2011: Kerrigan: quality starter

2011: Jarvis Jenkins: decent depth at DL

2011: DeJon Gomes: Released (currently on Lions)

2011: Brandyn Thompson: out of the league?

2011: Markus White: out of the league?

2011: Chris Neild: injured (not even sure hes still on the team?)

2012: Keenan Robinson: IR

2012: Richard Crawford: waived/released

2012: Jordan Bernstine: waived/released

2013: David Amerson: solid rookie starter

2013: Brandon Jenkins: cant get on field

2013: Phillip Thomas: IR

2013: Baccari Rambo: mediocre depth safety

 

 

so shanny has drafted 14 defensive players since 2010.  Kerrigan, Riley, Amerson, Rambo, and Jenkins are the only ones who see the field.  only 3 are starters. 

 

we have to do a better job drafting.  the only hope (and thats very longshot) is that injured guys like neild/robinson/thomas can contribute next year coming off of injury.

 

You're underrating Perry Riley. I think he is a very good ILB in a bad scheme. Get a good DC in here and get rid of Bob Slowik and you'll see a very good player there.

 

Jenkins is improving, IMO. He got hurt and is starting to get back to that form that he showed in the preseason. He's had a sack and a half in the last two weeks, I believe. Again--get a good DC and I think the whole defense improves.

 

DeJon Gomes was a 5th round miss. Those happen. Brandyn Thompson and Markus White were 7th round picks. The majority of those don't stick. Chris Neild was solid depth before he got hurt. He was working his way into the rotation at NT.

 

Richard Crawford is on IR and still on the team. He had to pass through waivers to get on IR, which is a relatively new rule. He was supposed to be the main PR and a back up CB. I thought he was decent when he played--a good 7th round pick if you ask me.

 

Berstine was a late round pick that got hurt, badly. Destroyed his knee.

 

Jenkins is a 5th round rookie. How many 5th round rookies contribute right away? Who should we have taken there? Same with Rambo--who is playing better and re-earned his starting spot as a 6th round rookie. You draft developmental talent here--sometimes it takes a while to develop.

 

People are letting the pain of this season cloud their judgement and hold late-round rookies to ridiculous expectations and then get all bent out of shape when they don't meet those expectations. Overall, our 1st and 2nd round picks have been excellent to very solid. I think we have gotten a lot of value out of our late round picks (Neild, Crawford, Thomas, Rambo, etc.)

 

We are bad because our coaching sucks, not because we don't find defensive starters at every round of the draft, every year.

[Garcon More Wine]

You're underrating Perry Riley. I think he is a very good ILB in a bad scheme. Get a good DC in here and get rid of Bob Slowik and you'll see a very good player there.

 

Jenkins is improving, IMO. He got hurt and is starting to get back to that form that he showed in the preseason. He's had a sack and a half in the last two weeks, I believe. Again--get a good DC and I think the whole defense improves.

 

DeJon Gomes was a 5th round miss. Those happen. Brandyn Thompson and Markus White were 7th round picks. The majority of those don't stick. Chris Neild was solid depth before he got hurt. He was working his way into the rotation at NT.

 

Richard Crawford is on IR and still on the team. He had to pass through waivers to get on IR, which is a relatively new rule. He was supposed to be the main PR and a back up CB. I thought he was decent when he played--a good 7th round pick if you ask me.

 

Berstine was a late round pick that got hurt, badly. Destroyed his knee.

 

Jenkins is a 5th round rookie. How many 5th round rookies contribute right away? Who should we have taken there? Same with Rambo--who is playing better and re-earned his starting spot as a 6th round rookie. You draft developmental talent here--sometimes it takes a while to develop.

 

People are letting the pain of this season cloud their judgement and hold late-round rookies to ridiculous expectations and then get all bent out of shape when they don't meet those expectations. Overall, our 1st and 2nd round picks have been excellent to very solid. I think we have gotten a lot of value out of our late round picks (Neild, Crawford, Thomas, Rambo, etc.)

 

We are bad because our coaching sucks, not because we don't find defensive starters at every round of the draft, every year.

 

i 100% agree that our scheme and coaching is terrible on D, you wont hear me argue otherwise.  maybe youre right, maybe these guys are better than how they look cause our scheme is so terrible.  but ive seen us find gems in late rounds on offense (morris, reed) and id like to see some of those on defense.

 

take a sick D like the seahawks, they have a lot of impact guys taken in late rounds. 

 

richard sherman: 5th rounder

Kam Chancellor: 5th rounder

Walter Thurmond: 4th rounder

brandon browner: UDFA (by shanahan actually) from the CFL to a probowler (a roided out probowler but hey!)

KJ Wright: 4th rounder

Red bryant: 4th rounder

 

These are all impact guys taken in round 4 or higher by seattle.  maybe their scheme is just awesome, but from what i hear they run zone defense 99% of the time from a 4-3 base.  nothing too fancy, theyre just good players.

[BKSkinsFan]

This is proof positive that no matter what decision Shanny makes, it's going to be blasted. 

 

If he sits starters who have earned their spot in order to scout how reserves do, I'm sure it would cause a stir and resentment in the locker room.  A team doesn't give up, no matter what the record is.  Giving up on that notion, is not the atmosphere you want, and luckily Shanny is well aware of that.

 

If he plays the guys that have worked hard ALL year, want to do whatever they can to win on Sunday, then he is looked at as someone who doesn't care about developing players and needs to go.. 

 

It's a lose lose situation here, which is why I truly believe if Shanny is fired, we lose all credibility and will NEVER be able to get a quality coach here.

[Tatankgough]

 So RG 3 gets injuried behind a rookie O-line which hasnt won the job in pre season or practice - So he can evaluate talent when he has all preseason next season would not just lead to his firing but most likely never getting a job in the league again. Such a silly topic.

 

Seems to me that if you are watching the games like most of the fans on this forum than you will acknowlege that RGIII is more apt to be injured with this line already. Thus the Post...Duh.

[NewCliche21]

Seems to me that if you are watching the games like most of the fans on this forum than you will acknowlege that RGIII is more apt to be injured with this line already. Thus the Post...Duh.

 

Be more of a douchebag when replying to posts that may not 100% agree with your point of view.  It helps get your point across better and people take you more seriously when you do so .

[Tatankgough]

Be more of a douchebag when replying to posts that may not 100% agree with your point of view.  It helps get your point across better and people take you more seriously when you do so .

 

Maybe you're right, but it gets pretty old getting called a racist if I critisize RGIII, or called an idiot for asking a question. Maybe you should take your own advice and stop trying to make a point by calling me a douchebag. Perhaps if you checked out my history on here you would find that I do not make a point of making insulting remarks even when ignorance is being rained on me. You would be more credible if you investigated your claims a little more.

[NewCliche21]

Maybe you're right, but it gets pretty old getting called a racist if I critisize RGIII, or called an idiot for asking a question. Maybe you should take your own advice and stop trying to make a point by calling me a douchebag. Perhaps if you checked out my history on here you would find that I do not make a point of making insulting remarks even when ignorance is being rained on me. You would be more credible if you investigated your claims a little more.

 

1)  You being called a racist for criticizing RGIII or an idiot for asking a question sucks, man.  It doesn't cancel it out when you do it in defense.

 

2)  Your history is since January of this year.  Mine is since January of 2006.  I think that my credibility is set right where it is, thank you.  Right there between "none" and "Dude, shut up, ban this idiot please."

[Tatankgough]

1)  You being called a racist for criticizing RGIII or an idiot for asking a question sucks, man.  It doesn't cancel it out when you do it in defense.

 

2)  Your history is since January of this year.  Mine is since January of 2006.  I think that my credibility is set right where it is, thank you.  Right there between "none" and "Dude, shut up, ban this idiot please."

 

Thanks for your answer to 1) it's appreciated. To 2) just since my history is from January of this year I have never gotten 0 warnings from the moderators, I have a lot of respect for your experience on this forum. What I believe I am saying is that maybe you shouldn't equate longevity with any more of a right to be condescending to others than beginners also.

[NewCliche21]

Thanks for your answer to 1) it's appreciated. To 2) just since my history is from January of this year I have never gotten 0 warnings from the moderators, I have a lot of respect for your experience on this forum. What I believe I am saying is that maybe you shouldn't equate longevity with any more of a right to be condescending to others than beginners also.

 

Okay, I suck at math, so I'm dropping the numbers.

 

1) What I don't think that you're getting is that I'm just messing around with you.

 

C) As I said, I have no credibility on this forum.

 

IV) I agree that the longevity of a poster means nothing.  It's helpful to have a sense of humor and a somewhat thick skin on this board though.  Same with being a Redskins fan.  Or else it would be impossible to continue to be a fan of either.

 

&)  No warnings for me, either.  I see that TK is still getting my "donations" to ES.

[elkabong82]

Seems to me that if you are watching the games like most of the fans on this forum than you will acknowlege that RGIII is more apt to be injured with this line already. Thus the Post...Duh.

 

But you ignore the very real possibility that the young guy you throw in there just because he's young, may actually be worse than the current starters, especially since the eligible young back ups are 5-7th rounders in their 2nd season. Believe it or not, the Redskins OL isn't the absolute worst in the NFL, so again the possibility of having worse step in is very real ESPECIALLY when you consider that, even if a young guy is as good or even a bit better than the starter, it may not show because he hasn't worked with the starting OL and developed chemistry with them as a unit like the starter has. These aren't experienced vets who you may be able to plug n' play with, these are 2nd year, low round picks. 

[Butters]

Obviously. Compton and Gettis deserve a shot. LeRibeus not so much for being an out of shape fatty. Chester and Polumbus blow.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

Devery Henderson deserves a chance to see the field!

[garyclarkforhall]

our last 4 seasons of defensive drafting have hurt badly.

 

2010: Perry Riley: below average MILB (STARTING)

2011: Kerrigan: quality starter (STARTING)

2011: Jarvis Jenkins: decent depth at DL (STARTING)

2011: DeJon Gomes: Released (currently on Lions) (5th ROUND PICK - two years on team)

2011: Brandyn Thompson: out of the league? (7th ROUND PICK)

2011: Markus White: out of the league? (7TH ROUND PICK)

2011: Chris Neild: injured (not even sure hes still on the team?) - 7th ROUND PICK STILL ON TEAM

2012: Keenan Robinson: IR (WOULD BE CONTRIBUTING - BIG ST PLAYER)

2012: Richard Crawford: waived/released (7th ROUND PICK - ACL/LCL TEAR)

2012: Jordan Bernstine: waived/released (7th ROUND PICK - ACL/MCL/PCL TORN IN FIRST GAME)

2013: David Amerson: solid rookie starter (CONTRIBUTOR)

2013: Brandon Jenkins: cant get on field (5th ROUND PICK - LIKELY A BACKUP NEXT YEAR)

2013: Phillip Thomas: IR (WOULD BE CONTRIBUTING)

2013: Baccari Rambo: mediocre depth safety (CONTRIBUTOR)

 

 

I highlighted in red the players mentioned that suggests our drafts have stunk on defense.  I don't think they've been Seattle "good" but let's look at the rounds of picks we've had

 

2010 - 3rd rounder

2011 - 1st, 2nd, 5th, three 7ths

2012 - 4th and two 7ths

2013 - 2nd, 4th, 5th, and 7th

 

Hit rate

 

1st - 1 - 100% (Kerrigan)

2nd - 2 - 100% - Amerson will be a starter next year... I think we all want more out of Jenkins but he is starting

3rd - 0

4th - 3 - Riley, Robinson and Thomas (hard to score with both on IR)

5th - 2- at best 50%... could be 0% (Gomes and B Jenkins... although both have played and dressed - Gomes for two years, Jenkins this year)

6th - 1 - (Rambo) - contributing as a rookie... so I say it's a hit

7th - 5 - two career injuries, one on the roster, two whiffs... probably pretty normal for 7th round successes long-term.

 

If Robinson and Thomas were healthy, I think you'd look at the mid round success a little more positively.  The misses on 7th rounders is not a surprise.

[Thinking Skins]

Add to that list Nick Williams, Lance Lewis, and Chase Minnifield

[Garcon More Wine]

I highlighted in red the players mentioned that suggests our drafts have stunk on defense.  I don't think they've been Seattle "good" but let's look at the rounds of picks we've had

 

2010 - 3rd rounder

2011 - 1st, 2nd, 5th, three 7ths

2012 - 4th and two 7ths

2013 - 2nd, 4th, 5th, and 7th

 

Hit rate

 

1st - 1 - 100% (Kerrigan)

2nd - 2 - 100% - Amerson will be a starter next year... I think we all want more out of Jenkins but he is starting

3rd - 0

4th - 3 - Riley, Robinson and Thomas (hard to score with both on IR)

5th - 2- at best 50%... could be 0% (Gomes and B Jenkins... although both have played and dressed - Gomes for two years, Jenkins this year)

6th - 1 - (Rambo) - contributing as a rookie... so I say it's a hit

7th - 5 - two career injuries, one on the roster, two whiffs... probably pretty normal for 7th round successes long-term.

 

If Robinson and Thomas were healthy, I think you'd look at the mid round success a little more positively.  The misses on 7th rounders is not a surprise.

 

ok, but "starting" means nothing to me because they are "starters" on the worst defense in the league.  So yeah, they might be starting, that doesnt mean theyre any good.

 

amerson and kerigan are the only legit starters we have that we've drafted over the past 4 seasons.  i think riley is slow, mediocre in coverage, and has never flashed big play ability in his career.  depth ILB on most other 3-4 defensive teams.

 

injury will tell with the others, but at the moment its tough to tell.

[MattFancy]

I understand why some would want to see those younger guys, but why? To get RG3 killed even more back there? It's not like we're gaining draft position by playing the younger guys and losing. We need to keep winning so the Rams don't end up with a top 5 pick.

[Garcon More Wine]

I understand why some would want to see those younger guys, but why? To get RG3 killed even more back there? It's not like we're gaining draft position by playing the younger guys and losing. We need to keep winning so the Rams don't end up with a top 5 pick.

 

at this point it doesnt matter, the embarrassment is already there.  whether they get the 1st or 6th, its still awful.  id rather have better draft position for our other rounds if were gonna lose these games.

 

but i dont think griffin can have any worse blocking than what hes getting now at times.  i truly dont think compton can be worse than polumbus, as polumbus literally cannot hold a block.

[MrJL]

ok, but "starting" means nothing to me because they are "starters" on the worst defense in the league.  So yeah, they might be starting, that doesnt mean theyre any good.

 

amerson and kerigan are the only legit starters we have that we've drafted over the past 4 seasons.  i think riley is slow, mediocre in coverage, and has never flashed big play ability in his career.  depth ILB on most other 3-4 defensive teams.

 

injury will tell with the others, but at the moment its tough to tell.

 

 

I think you're completely wrong about Riley