Officially worse then Zorn/Spurrier. I am totally defeated as a fan

[hail2skins]

I think the problem is that Mike, somewhat like Joe Gibbs, is past his prime.  In the NFL, it is really no longer about having that old, experienced coach.  It's about striking gold with a good young or middle-aged hire.  Sure, it'll blow up in your face occasionally but the retread thing has got to go......

The real bad decision was letting Mike be GM too, and letting him insist on bringing failures as coaches here AND RETAIN THEM For years.  If Shanahan insisted on that, I would have never hired him.  Snyder is responsible, in that sense, since there really ARE times when he needs to step in (or avoid hiring someone) to get the team in a better position.  I think there is an overemphasis on NOT meddling that has actually hindered the team.

Funny thing Ghost is that you have a retread in Coughlin up in NY who was the same age in 2004 as Mike was in 2010 when he took over.  I don't think many Giants fans would call Coughlin's tenure there a failure....two Lombardis isn't too shabby. Of course, he was able to draft his franchise QB from the get go, sacrificed that season where the Giants were in the playoff mix so Eli could get a half-year of experience, and, importantly, has a front-office structure that he has to respond to.  As you said, Shanny has accountability to no one.

[Ghost of]

Mike should be fired tomorrow morning. Haslett as well. Promote Raheem Morris to interim headcoach/D-Coordinator and let him and Kyle finish off the season. There is literally no point in letting Haslett or Shanny stick around. If we're going to get blown out at home, might as well look at other guys. I'm kinda happy this is happening. Never thought Shanny was legit anyways. Better to purge ourselves of that parasite sooner the later. 

 

I agree. My friend, the Broncos fan, says Shanahan should be gone this week.  There's really no reason to continue to go with Mike as HC, Haslett as DC.  For whatever reason, I'm willing to let Burns finish the season.  I think, far from it being a disaster (season already is) we can do two things in the short run:

 

1)Invest fully in a search process for GM, as well as short lists of candidates for HC to assist the new GM.  Get our money, contracts and options in line so that when the season is over, it can begin in earnest (OR hire in-house GM immediately, Morocco, etc.)

 

2) It may revive the team partially.  Interim coaches are rarely successful but we are SO BAD right now, I have a hard time believing the players will not respond positively.  We may have a more accurate evaluation period as a rsult, which will be vital for the new regime making decisions.  Right now, this is not a true evaluation because the team is desperate for anyone else at HC.

[Skinzfever2010]

Dan won't fire his buddy like that during the year. His going to let Mike go after we finish 3-13.

[Ghost of]

Funny thing Ghost is that you have a retread in Coughlin up in NY who was the same age in 2004 as Mike was in 2010 when he took over.  I don't think many Giants fans would call Coughlin's tenure there a failure....two Lombardis isn't too shabby. Of course, he was able to draft his franchise QB from the get go, sacrificed that season where the Giants were in the playoff mix so Eli could get a half-year of experience, and, importantly, has a front-office structure that he has to respond to.  As you said, Shanny has accountability to no one.

Indeed.  As with any statement, there are exceptions.  And there were times when Coughlin was really close to being canned.  I think the one difference I'd point to (besides what you already mentioned: ACCOUNTABILITY) is that Coughlin had yet to win a SB.  It really does seem that winning a SB and becoming a feted hero in a given location takes something from you and makes similar accomplishments beyond your reach.  Plus he was put in great position by some great drafting and personnel management.  I think even Shanahan could have won a SB last year if Griffin had not been injured before that second TD pass vs. Seattle.

[Mr. Sinister]

If there is one thing I could blame Snyder for (legitimately) It would be maybe giving Mike full autonomy over all football decisions, basically dropping on both knees while Mike unzipped in January '10. Most Super Bowl winning HC's are incredibly set in their ways. Any HC who wasn't too comfortable with the idea of being stubborn would have canned Haslett years ago.

 

Not that the D was the overwhelming issue tonight, but it has been putrid for 4 years. That is unacceptable, and because Mike answers only to Dan (who after being raked over the coals by this town and the national media, probably doesnt have the balls to fire him straight up at this point, along with half the coaches/GM's in the league hating him, giving him limited options, thus probably causing him to view Mike as his last big time HC effort before having to do some serious soul searching), he can puff out his chest... Because it's "All good."

 

Mike would probably take a bullet for his coordinators, and there is no one to challenge him on it. And thats bad for the long haul. Even when he does something good, its always one step forward, two steps back.

[hail2skins]

2) It may revive the team partially.  Interim coaches are rarely successful but we are SO BAD right now, I have a hard time believing the players will not respond positively.  We may have a more accurate evaluation period as a rsult, which will be vital for the new regime making decisions.  Right now, this is not a true evaluation because the team is desperate for anyone else at HC.

Dan fired Vinny at 4-9 in '09 (which, of course, meant that Zorn absolutely would be gone at season's end) and the team responded by getting blown out at home in consecutive outings.

[Skinzfever2010]

If there is one thing I could blame Snyder for (legitimately) It would be maybe giving Mike full autonomy over all football decisions, basically dropping on both knees while Mike unzipped in January '10. Most Super Bowl winning HC's are incredibly set in their ways. Any HC who wasn't too comfortable with the idea of being stubborn would have canned Haslett years ago.

Not that the D was the overwhelming issue tonight, but it has been putrid for 4 years. That is unacceptable, and because Mike answers only to Dan (who after being raked over the coals by this town and the national media, probably doesnt have the balls to fire him straight up at this point, along with half the coaches/GM's in the league hating him, giving him limited options, thus probably causing him to view Mike as his last big time HC effort before having to do some serious soul searching), he can puff out his chest... Because it's "All good."

Mike would probably take a bullet for his coordinators, and there is no one to challenge him on it. And thats bad for the long haul. Even when he does something good, its always one step forward, two steps back.

Wait.. You're saying Dan willingly gave Mike a blow Job and swallowed his Kyles for him to cum here?

 

Hi there.

 

Take your 5 days off & really study the Rules here.

[DCthomahal]

Tried a big ol' long-winded post. But basically I think the OP said about all there is to be said ultimately. There are failures basically everywhere you look. There are excuses/reasons for those failures as well (usually are). But what in the world do you hang your hat on a a fan? What do you say, "OK, here is the heart of the team, the part that is really working, let's build on that"?????

 

Big Alfred Morris fan myself. Even he got shut down tonight. Not sure Walter Payton could have done much with the "blocking" going on out there, though.

 

I think about the only thing I can think of doing is reaffirming I'm still a big fan of this team, admitting it is a very bad team right now, and hoping we take the few positives that DO remain and build on those next year. And keep working on things this year. I'm for leaving RGIII in there and see how well he can work his way through all this, for instance.

 

Aaaaaand that is a pretty futile post to go along with a pretty futile game and a pretty futile season.

[The Diesel]

Five year plan fellas. Five years. This is year four.

Let's not act like a $16mm cap hit didn't hurt either. Significantly. Not making excuses, but that has caught up to us. We masked it last year, but if you don't think that matters in a league as balanced as the NFL then you are wrong.

One more year. Let's give them the full five.

[Ghost of]

Dan fired Vinny at 4-9 in '09 (which, of course, meant that Zorn absolutely would be gone at season's end) and the team responded by getting blown out at home in consecutive outings.

 

Well, we are more or less looking at that happening anyway.  There's at least a chance that something happens that allows the team to at least evaluate players without everyone quitting.  That might mean going with different personnel too, at least in a few places.

[Ghost of]

Five year plan fellas. Five years. This is year four.

Let's not act like a $16mm cap hit didn't hurt either. Significantly. Not making excuses, but that has caught up to us. We masked it last year, but if you don't think that matters in a league as balanced as the NFL then you are wrong.

One more year. Let's give them the full five.

 

Really, man?  The guy had a worse record in his first two years than Zorn did.  He's made the awful decision to first, hire Haslett, then second, RETAIN him this entire time.  I think the Burns hire, at least now, looks bad.  He brought SLowik with him as something more than official team poolboy.  The cap hit isn't as big as you think because some people took less or took restructurings to help, and may not have absent the emergent circumstances.  

 

I can't believe ANYONE is saying we need to give them another year.  And why five years?  This isn't Stalin's Russia or Mao's CHina, what is this allure of five year plans?  Other teams do not need this long to turn things around and since we could not even sustain success, it's not like firing someone who had TWO good years then a bad year.

[Hunter_R]

Really, man?  The guy had a worse record in his first two years than Zorn did.  He's made the awful decision to first, hire Haslett, then second, RETAIN him this entire time.  I think the Burns hire, at least now, looks bad.  He brought SLowik with him as something more than official team poolboy.  The cap hit isn't as big as you think because some people took less or took restructurings to help, and may not have absent the emergent circumstances.  

 

I can't believe ANYONE is saying we need to give them another year.  And why five years?  This isn't Stalin's Russia or Mao's CHina, what is this allure of five year plans?  Other teams do not need this long to turn things around and since we could not even sustain success, it's not like firing someone who had TWO good years then a bad year.

****, there are guys that think just letting Shanny finish isn't good enough. We should sign him to a 3 year extension to keep the pressure off him.

 

http://es.redskins.com/topic/373009-the-post-shanahan-era/page-2#entry9605398

[Warhead36]

At 14-0 against Seattle, I thought we were officially back to being a legit contending franchise.

 

Now it's just...wow. Not even a whole calendar year and we're literally back to where we were in 2009 under Zorn. Seriously, it doesn't look any different, except we maybe have a few nice young players.

 

I don't know what to think anymore. It's really hard to follow sports. I don't get as emotionally involved as I did in my youth.

[CapnRedskins]

I agree 100% OP. We might as well mark this down as a 3-13 season because there is no way this team can win another game. They are THAT bad. I honestly think this is the worst since 1994.

[The Diesel]

Really, man?  The guy had a worse record in his first two years than Zorn did.  He's made the awful decision to first, hire Haslett, then second, RETAIN him this entire time.  I think the Burns hire, at least now, looks bad.  He brought SLowik with him as something more than official team poolboy.  The cap hit isn't as big as you think because some people took less or took restructurings to help, and may not have absent the emergent circumstances.  

 

I can't believe ANYONE is saying we need to give them another year.  And why five years?  This isn't Stalin's Russia or Mao's CHina, what is this allure of five year plans?  Other teams do not need this long to turn things around and since we could not even sustain success, it's not like firing someone who had TWO good years then a bad year.

Well, we disagree.

It's a bad season no doubt. What can anyone say in defense of this team? The offense is furry highly ranked??? That's not much of an endorsement, especially considering what we've all seen the past few weeks.

I think you are undervaluing the cost of our cap penalty though. The NFL is an incredibly efficient market and if you give one team 1/3 less capital in an efficient market it's going to damn well make a difference. We were all fooled by last season's successes. This is really what I'd bet a team working with 2/3 salary cap should have looked like then (and did through the first half of the season).

I'm pretty sure Dan Snyder understands the callousness of market inefficiencies and is not going to hold them against our coaching staff this year.

[The Diesel]

Let me add, with a full cap Tyler Polumbus isn't playing right tackle for us tonight...or ever. What kind of difference would that have made tonight or in previous games?

There are probably at least 5 starting positions on both sides that would be upgraded with a full cap, and will be next year.

[Commander PK]

****, there are guys that think just letting Shanny finish isn't good enough. We should sign him to a 3 year extension to keep the pressure off him.

 

http://es.redskins.com/topic/373009-the-post-shanahan-era/page-2#entry9605398

 

Yeah, I said it, and I still think keeping him will give us the best chance to win a Super Bowl within the next 2 or 3 years.  I'm not sure why some of you are so eager to torpedo everything and start over again.  I see that plan as very likely delaying our next Lombardi. Maybe some of you want Shanahan gone so bad you can't see the bigger picture.  Starting over again will almost certainly start another rebuilding process.  

 

Maybe I'm wrong...maybe Shanahan should go...right now.  Tomorrow.  See ya.  I just hope that all of you that joygasm when that happens realize that if it happens we are very likely right back at square one again.  Personally, I would like to see another Super Bowl at some point before I'm collecting social ****ing security checks.  

 

We cannot continue this cycle of starting over every time we have a bad season.  Last year for me cancelled out the first two years.    

[88Comrade2000]

I do disagree with the part about not knowing what it takes to fix this. Snyder continues to be the problem. The Redskins are a dysfunctional organization with this clown in charge surrounded by his posse of yes men and ass kissers. I will articulate more clearly in a thread later this week

Will Snyder like that?

I don't literally believe in a curse but I do believe that some cities/franchises are just snakebitten and stuck in suck.

 

Cleveland, Buffalo, and Washington (who lucked in Gibbs for a decade plus)

Washington was good for almost 2 decades save a losing season here and there.  We were one of the elites.  This team didn't adjust to free agency when it started and then just made mistake after mistake for nearly 2 decades and counting.

[88Comrade2000]

I agree 100% OP. We might as well mark this down as a 3-13 season because there is no way this team can win another game. They are THAT bad. I honestly think this is the worst since 1994.

This will be worse because that #1 pick will be with the Rams.   The Rams with our pick will now have the flexibility to decide if they want to move on from Sam Bradford.

[Bacon]

Yeah, I said it, and I still think keeping him will give us the best chance to win a Super Bowl within the next 2 or 3 years.  I'm not sure why some of you are so eager to torpedo everything and start over again.  I see that plan as very likely delaying our next Lombardi. Maybe some of you want Shanahan gone so bad you can't see the bigger picture.  Starting over again will almost certainly start another rebuilding process.  

 

Maybe I'm wrong...maybe Shanahan should go...right now.  Tomorrow.  See ya.  I just hope that all of you that joygasm when that happens realize that if it happens we are very likely right back at square one again.  Personally, I would like to see another Super Bowl at some point before I'm collecting social ****ing security checks.  

 

We cannot continue this cycle of starting over every time we have a bad season.  Last year for me cancelled out the first two years.    

 

Let's use the 49ers as an extremely pertinent example. Had they held onto Singletary and not hired Harbaugh, would they be in the position they're at today? What would have become of them had they stayed the course? 

 

The W/L margins of Shanahan and Singletary differ only in that Singletary's is superior, if we're simply drawing from Shanahan's tenure here.

This will be worse because that #1 pick will be with the Rams.   The Rams with our pick will now have the flexibility to decide if they want to move on from Sam Bradford.

They have an abysmal scouting department. I wouldn't be too concerned about that.

[Commander PK]

Let's use the 49ers as an extremely pertinent example. Had they held onto Singletary and not hired Harbaugh, would they be in the position they're at today? What would have become of them had they stayed the course? 

 

The W/L margins of Shanahan and Singletary differ only in that Singletary's is superior, if we're simply drawing from Shanahan's tenure here.

They have an abysmal scouting department. I wouldn't be too concerned about that.

 

Look...I know what Shanahan's record is since he's been here.  I understand that the bottom line is that his teams overall have not produced, but I can't get passed the fact of what could things have been like without the lockout, and without the cap penalty.  It seems people just want heads to roll without an objective examination of the circumstances of his first four years here.

 

Name me one head coach anywhere...EVER...that had this much adversity in his first four years coaching another team in the NFL. My biggest fear is that now we are at the point where we can finally bring in players with people who know how to use them, and we will jettison the whole thing again for another do over.  I fear that more than anything.

 

I have even heard some people say that Shanahan's successor will reap the benefits of his efforts here.  Well, if that is true is that not a case FOR keeping Shanahan?  Or do those same people really believe that he is a better GM than a coach?  

 

Oh really?

 

To reap benefits means that you have something of substance to reap benefits from.  Or do we not believe that anymore?

and if you don't believe that anymore...than stand by for the latest inevitable rebuild.  

[88Comrade2000]

I'm not deflated. I'm just resigned. I said a few years ago, that maybe it was time to adjust my fandom.  Instead of being a fan of team that regularly contended; I would be a fan of team that was mostly hapless like the Cubs, Bengals, etc....

 

 

I am honestly starting to believe that we may never win anything under Dan Snyder.  It will just be a rollercoaster as we go on an endless cycle of coaches; hoping for the best each time we hire a new coach.  This will be guy.  We've said that with every coach Dan Snyder has hired.

 

As for Shanny. I don't care that he had cap penality.  The guy is lousy coach and lousy gm.  Based on his final 3 years in Denver; Shanny should've never gotten another job.  He was mediocre.  Danny was star struck and wanted him the moment he heard Shanny got fired.  Took him  a year to get him, since Shanny took a year off.

 

Shanny has built nothing.  This team isn't anywhere close to being a year to year contender.  I know those that want Shanny retained feel that with a full cap and security of say another 2-3 years; it will be Lombardi time in D.C.   I disagree.  After 4 years, he has built nothing. 2012 was a fluke.   I view this offseason probably the most critical one in D.C. for the near and mid-term future on this franchise.  We need to have the right people making the decisions to bring in the right players. We need to have the right people developing RG3. If he ends up being a bust; then this franchise will drift in the wilderness for another 20 years.    I no longer view Shanny as that man to bring us the players we need.  It strikes mortal fear in me that Shanny will be in charge next year with all that cap space.  A GM/Coach knowing that he has to win in 2014 to retain his job will not be making the best decisions; especially when that person is a mediocre at best.

 

AS for RG3; it's clear Robert is starting to regress.  I don't think Shanny can turn him into the QB we all he hope he can be.

 

I don't see any hope with continuing with this regime.  If we somehow make the playoffs in 2014, I fully expect a losing season in 2015. I see another year of Shanny doing more damage to the short,mid and long term sucess of this francise.

 

 

It's time for a new guy and yes, it also means we may have to write off 2014 as the new coach molds the team to his visions with his players.  Yet, another cycle.   Well, I've seen enough of the cycle of Shanny and I am ready to move on.   I firmly believe it's better to move on then stay with a man who's last really great season was 2005 when he lost the AFC Championship game to the Steelers. He's been mediocre to down right awful ever since.

 

 

Of course the other problem is, will Dan Snyder finally see that the first problem with the Redskins is that we need to have the GM and Coach be 2 different people.  You have one man be in charge of bringing in the talent and you have the other man coach that talent. That way works more often that not.  This is the only structure that Dan hasn't tried.  I don't have the confidence at all he will realize this. Should Dan go ahead and make a coaching change; he will go after the next big name.  He will look at the retreads like Jon Gruden or he might go after one of the Top Coordindators or College Coaches.   We will just have to hope that he finally strikes gold.   The new cycle will finally work out for us or in 3-4 years it's time for the next one.

 

It's sad that we have reached that point again but until this era ends and the new one begins; I won't have much hope.  I will be resigned to another disappointing year.   Then the new guy will eventually comes and give me hope again until he lets me down. All I can hope for the next time will be different. Such is the life of the Redskin fan. Now, Dan could really shock me and agree to give up that control and let a GM build him a team.  Then I will be estatic; at least until they let me down?  I would love to see what would happen with a real GM.

 

 

It just might be that the Skins will go thru endless cycles for the rest of my life.  45 now. I'll still be a fan.  At least I can take joy in knowing that Jerry Jones will be the Boys GM for the rest of his life.  That should give me some hope.  

[thewagen]

I am baffled. I don't even know if a new coaching staff will help the problem

They need for the Owner to SELL and get the h3ll out of dodge...Until Snyder and his stench leaves this team will NEVER succeed!

[Duckus]

Here is the real sad part...

When the Mike Shanahan era started the bar was set low. Most fans simply wanted us to be respectable. A stable teams that was run by professionals. We simple wanted to no longer be embarrassed to be Redskins fans.

Well, 4 years later and I think most of us are embarrassed by this team. We are a drama filled joke.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

Look...I know what Shanahan's record is since he's been here.  I understand that the bottom line is that his teams overall have not produced, but I can't get passed the fact of what could things have been like without the lockout, and without the cap penalty.  It seems people just want heads to roll without an objective examination of the circumstances of his first four years here.

 

Name me one head coach anywhere...EVER...that had this much adversity in his first four years coaching another team in the NFL. My biggest fear is that now we are at the point where we can finally bring in players with people who know how to use them, and we will jettison the whole thing again for another do over.  I fear that more than anything.

 

I have even heard some people say that Shanahan's successor will reap the benefits of his efforts here.  Well, if that is true is that not a case FOR keeping Shanahan?  Or do those same people really believe that he is a better GM than a coach?  

 

Oh really?

 

To reap benefits means that you have something of substance to reap benefits from.  Or do we not believe that anymore?

and if you don't believe that anymore...than stand by for the latest inevitable rebuild.  

 

The cap penalty and lockout do not excuse the rest of Shanahan's mismanagement. Even facing the penalty, he made several bad decisions that are coming back to bite us now. 

 

The team is also undisciplined, never prepared, has no leader, has no idea what the hell it is doing half the time, clock management is brutal, the Shanahan doghouse keeping potentially helpful players off the field IE Davis, he is responsible for bringing in the man coaching the worst ST unit in the NFL, one of if not the worst defenses, opponents have picked our tendancies and calling out plays left and right on offense and defense, the entire mismanagement and endangerment of RG3 pre and post injury etc. 

 

There are plenty of reasons to fire Shanahan. Personally, I think he is a better GM than coach at this point and I don't even think he is a good GM.