Let's Dispel Some Myths From The Broncos Game

[Vilandil Tasardur]

Let’s dispel some myths that people have been spouting off since yesterday’s game.

 

Myth one: Kyle is a horrible offensive coordinator for abandoning the run.

Myth two: Robert is a saint playing behind a horrible, broken line and Manning would look even worse behind them.

Myth three: Robert is damaged goods and needs to be yanked.

 

Yes, they are all false.

 

Myth One

Allow me to set the scene. Deangelo Hall has just returned an interception for a TD following a huge score by Morris. We have a 21-7 lead with 11:34 left in the 3^rd quarter. The Broncos proceed to go on a 3:37 minute drive that results in a TD and also includes a critical fourth down conversion. The total drive takes 75 yards as well.

 

At this point, Robert and the offense step back onto the field and Robert has NOT THROWN THE BALL (by virtue of turnovers and runs) since the touchdown at the end of the half. Likely, that comes out to somewhere near a HALF HOUR of real time that he hasn’t thrown a real pass. It could even be more with all the commercials after the TDs and all.

 

On this drive, we ran Morris up the middle for 3 yards, and then threw RG3’s first pass in over a half hour to Garcon, complete for 11 yards and tacked on a 15 yarder to boot. AND THEN, the wheels came off. Morris for one yard to the right, Morris for two yards to the right, and now it’s 3^rd and 7. I don’t think anyone will complain about a pass here, incomplete, punt.

 

So following Manning’s big statement drive to pull to within 7, we ran the ball 3 times and threw it 2. None of our runs went for more than 2 or 3, and the “run, run, pass” put us in a third and long that we couldn’t convert.

 

Manning then leads another drive starting at 4:55 left in the third, and takes up 4:59, ends the third quarter, results in a one yard touchdown, on fourth and goal (so close!), and ties the ball game. We’re now starting the 4^th perfectly tied through 3.

 

This is where the wheels fall off. Kyle calls a great play that gets Morgan, WIDE, and I mean wide, stinkin’ open. You can call it a drop by Morgan, I call it a horrible, awful, miss by Griffin as the ball was well behind Morgan and the sort of play only Megatron contorts back for. Either way, we miss a HUGE opportunity to grab the momentum back and start driving. Then, on second down, we have what I consider to be “the play” where Kyle blows it. This should have been a run, instead we dial up another pass, and Robert once again shows that “check downs and for chumps” and pulls a Sex Dragon on us. He overthrows the deep double coverage by 10 yards and we’re looking at 3^rd and 10. Now what? Certainly can’t run the ball here. The 2^nd down play should have been a run, but I won’t fault Kyle for passing on first and trying to avoid another 1 or 2 yard run, especially when he got Morgan so ridiculously open.

 

Manning throws the screen to Moreno, and all of a sudden we’re playing from behind. We throw an 8 yard pass to Reed, then give it to Morris for the first down. He gets the first down, but FUMBLES the ball. Thankfully, Paulsen recovers it. However, after a fumble, I have NO PROBLEM calling a pass and getting Morris out of the game for a play or two. Unfortunately, Von Miller beats Trent around the edge on the same play that Griffin double clutches and boom, strip sack. Game over.

 

 

Going through the play call, I can only really question one of the “passes.” I cannot agree that we got away from the run for any reason other than they stopped it, we fumbled, etc.

 

 

 

Myth Two

I thought the Oline played well yesterday. The guys in the middle struggled at times with inside protection, but I disagree that a guy like Manning would look bad behind them. A guy like Manning gets the ball out of his hands. A guy like Manning is 6’7’’ and doesn’t mind the guys up front move back a little. Griffin looks like if there is any inside push at all, he can’t get the ball over the line and starts dancing around for throwing lanes. He is also determined to make the big, homerun play, and is refusing to check it down at all.

 

Last year, we ran a TON of 2 man routes. One guy on a deep post, one guy on an intermediate in. Griffin did a great job of looking from one to the next, but that was all there was to do. This year, when we do run the two man routes, they are covered (big surprise?) and when we don’t, Griffin completely locks on. The most obvious one was killing Reed over the middle when Morgan was open in the flat and Garcon in the end zone with no one within 20 yards of him. But I saw it a LOT last week in the first half and I saw it plenty today. When Manning dropped back, I counted “1, 2, 3” and the ball almost never made it to 3.5 in his hands. It was out. With Griffin, it was “1, 2,3, throw it! Throw it now! Move! Get out of there! Duck! Ouch…” I don’t care about guys getting open. If they’re not open, throw it at there feet. You cannot take those hits in the pocket or ask your line to block their guys into the 4^th and 5^th second.

 

 

Myth Three

This is still our guy. Cousins is NOT better (and it has NOTHING to do with his end of the game last night). It just has to do with the fact that any rookie mistakes Griffin is making, Cousins will have to go through as well. It’s not like Cousins is a vet back there who knows what’s up. He will have the same struggles with disguised coverage and everything. And Griffin will get better. He will get the hang of it. At least, I hope.

[grego]

while i agree that the 3 and out that consisted of a sequence of passes to morgan and robinson that should have been completions (morgan wasnt even looking for that ball, btw and it still hit him in the hand. pass wasnt great but needs to be caught) were not necessarily bad calls, kyle does tend to get 'pass happy' and did abandon the run yesterday to some extent.

 

one legit criticism is that he is calling straight drop backs when our line cannot protect that way. it doesnt work, yet kyle doesnt seem to be able to come up with a plan to move the pocket.

[grego]

btw- matich and b mitch, along with some pretty good x's and o's people here are starting to openly question why kyle doesnt adjust. 

 

not saying its all his fault, but hes not helping either.

[Warhead36]

Best post I've read on this forum in quite some time. Agree 120%. I wish more posters were like the OP, someone who is smart and actually knows what they're talking about! Kudos to you sir.

[Chachie]

I also was not buying the "why didn't we run more" complaints. They were stopping Morris pretty easily by the late 3rd qtr.

[Vilandil Tasardur]

I'll definitely buy some of that. I don't know why we don't see the vintage Shanaham bootlegs and roll outs. I suspect there is a reason though. My opinion? I think Griffin is not accurate on the move. I can think of very few passes that he put "between the numbers" when he was on the move unless they were short of ten yards. You need to be able to hit a moving target from a moving position to start moving the pocket around.

 

As for getting pass happy, I've seen it in other games, but I don't see it here. Where would you have changed a pass to a run in that sequence of events? Like I said, the only one I would change was the 2nd down turd where Griffin overthrew everybody by 10 yards. But then again, if he takes a check down or runs on that play maybe we're looking at 3rd and medium instead of 3rd and long.

 

 

The point it, you can't have it both ways. You can't scream about how Kyle is predictable and isn't creative and doesn't adjust to the situation, and then complain that he throws the ball on 1st down. In the drives that turned the game (at 21-14, 21-21, and 21-28) Kyle called a game plan that would have got us moving the ball and regaining momentum if even just a SINGLE one of those awfuly executed plays goes the other way. 

 

 

Edit:

Thanks for the kind words guys. I like Morris as much as the next guy. In fact, he's my current favorite skin at the moment. But it was pretty clear that in those three drives they were going to sell out to stop him. On the only play he managed to gain any yards, he fumbled. ANd we're only overlooking that fumble because the lumberjack recovered and Williams gave up the strip sack on the next play. 

[Chachie]

btw- matich and b mitch, along with some pretty good x's and o's people here are starting to openly question why kyle doesnt adjust. 

 

not saying its all his fault, but hes not helping either.

 

 

Matich was dead-on about moving the pocket. Even if you want Griffin to throw more, you still have to move the pocket, especially with our interior o-line.

[Boss_Hogg]

The OP must've read my mind because I wS getting ready to start a thread about myth #3.

Robert played poorly yesterday and the criticism is warranted. What I don't understand are the posters on here ready to give up on RGIII.

Makes no sense to me

[DM72]

I also was not buying the "why didn't we run more" complaints. They were stopping Morris pretty easily by the late 3rd qtr.

Being up by 7 in the 3rd quarter and three straight passes is unacceptable whether they were stopping the run or not.

[Vilandil Tasardur]

Being up by 7 in the 3rd quarter and three straight passes is unacceptable whether they were stopping the run or not.

Sorry bud, the 3 straight passes didn't come until it was a TIE ball game, not at the point where we were up 7.

 

Once again, do you run on 1st down? If so, do you ALWAYS run on 1st down? Do you run on first down knowing your last couple of runs have netted 3 yards or less?  I can't fault Kyle for occasionally mixing in a 1st down pass, especially when it was wide open for the play to be made. On second down, I can 2nd guess all day long. But by third and ten, well, you kind of have to throw.

[Warhead36]

Yep Vilandi is spot on. This is why I don't bash playcalling, retroactively every play can be critiqued. But it's more on execution. If RG3 hits Morgan on that wide open play and we go on to have a scoring(or at least somewhat productive drive to regian momentum), Kyle is lauded as being aggressive and going for the jugular. Unfortunately we didn't execute, but that's not on Kyle, last I checked he's not the one playing QB. Hell even the 2nd down play, I don't think Kyle's play was to have RG3 throw it 50 yards to a WR who is double covered. Based on all the open WRs RG3 had missed up to that point, I bet you there was someone open underneath.

 

Reg. the OL and your myth #2, again you are spot on Vil. Redskins fans more than any other fanbase overemphasize the OL and have a ridiculously high standard of play. In today's NFL if you can get your QB an open pocket for 3-4 seconds you're doing great and more often then not that's exactly what they did. A good QB beats pressure by making throws, something RG3 just flat out did not do yesterday at all. So many times he'd just sit there all day, I too was yelling at him to throw the god damn ball. And I don't buy the "nobody was open" non-sense, for one this is the NFL WRs aren't gonna be wide open that often you gotta be able to throw guys open, and secondly there were many instances where RG3 flat out missed open receivers so I'm gonna assume guys are at least getting a little open but the QB can't or won't hit them.

[Wildbunny]

Iirc, there was one play in the first half where Robert rolled to the right and wasn't able to outrun #97. The play ended in a run of 1. So much for moving the pocket and play bootlegs if your QB can't run.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Being up by 7 in the 3rd quarter and three straight passes is unacceptable whether they were stopping the run or not.

 

That never happened, but I also don't even agree. If you call plays that get people open, it's on the players. Period. We needed to keep scoring in that game to have a shot. Getting Morgan and Robinson open 15-20 yards downfield was a good thing.

 

I think some people can feel better about a loss when they can simplify it and boil it down to one thing/person. Usually, football games aren't that cut and dry. But some like to focus anger, frustration, whatever at one call/coach/player.

[Vilandil Tasardur]

I forgot all about that awful play in the first half. RG3 rolling right and unable to outrun the lineman to the edge. At the time I commented to my body that it was strange, but assumed it was a fast player like Von Miller. If was indeed Number 97, that would be Jason Malik, defensive end and weighing in at 293 pounds. Please, please, please, tell me it was anyone but 97. Please don't tell me that our world class sprinter can't outrun a 293 pound run stuffing DE.

[skins island connection]

One myth that cannot be proven wrong is this;

 RGIII is NOWHERE near last year's QB. 

 

 What I want to know is who exactly is responsible for this mess? A finger can be pointed at a number of people, from players to coaches, and they could all be legitimate and worthy.

 

 Is this a result of coaches wanting RGIII to be a pocket passer?

 Is it Kyle not making adjustments?

 Does RGIII have the ability to change plays at the LOS?

 

 There were a number of issues that light was shed on in this game; RGIII has developed the stare-down of receivers, a bad habit. He is overthrowing and throwing behind receivers.

 Now, receivers look to be running INTO coverage. I saw a number of times where a receiver was wide open at first, but seemed to either try to clear out the coverage or simply got lost in coverage, because at times they were running straight then veering slowly to the left or right, right into areas where defense was set up. What gives with that?

 

 Time is running out, and running out quickly. IF they intend on trying to make a run at playoffs, it begins sunday against the Chargers. At this point I doubt they could adjust to Jacksonville, but the RGIII today is nowhere near last year's player; but being he's such a high media type player who makes headlines every time he farts, seeing Mike, Kyle, RGIII, his parents, and the doctor all having their say into who plays and when they play, its time  the coach stops answering the phones, RGIII stays away from the media, and the team look themselves in the eyes and grow up as professionals.

 

If a power struggle is part to blame, it needs to be stopped before it really ruins this team for years.

[darrelgreenie]

Vilandil Tasardur

You've created/found some myths and argued against them, kudos.

 

How/why is a low percentage play, a downfield route to a questionable WR such a good play call?

What would a higher percentages calls consist of? Maybe target Reed or Garcon? Maybe not throw it downfield? Maybe throw a screen?

Or read-option? Or another run?

 

Does that series vindicate the rest of Kyle's mistakes?

[grego]

That never happened, but I also don't even agree. If you call plays that get people open, it's on the players. Period. We needed to keep scoring in that game to have a shot. Getting Morgan and Robinson open 15-20 yards downfield was a good thing.

 

I think some people can feel better about a loss when they can simplify it and boil it down to one thing/person. Usually, football games aren't that cut and dry. But some like to focus anger, frustration, whatever at one call/coach/player.

 

 

agreed. i dont like kyle much, but those particular plays were there. 

 

this game was a collective implosion by basically everyone associated with our offense. 

[Skinz4Life12]

good post OP

[Bat~man]

Vilandil Tasardur

You've created some myths and argued against them, kudos.

 

How is a low percentage play, a downfield route to a questionable WR such a good play call?

What would a higher percentages calls consist of? Maybe target Reed or Garcon? Maybe not throw it downfield? Maybe throw a screen?

Or read-option? Or another run?

I agree. 

 

Look at the runs we called, tosses and the like...really? Then we get stuffed a couple times after being really successful with the run and we quit in favor of a passing game that's been really effective right? We ran PA pass on 2 wr routes like it's the only thing to do. When people want creativity, it doesn't mean throw on 1st down for the sake of throwing, you still have to be creative. 

 

This game was lost on a lot of things, and Kyle/playcalling is at fault as much as any other reason. RG3 was BAD, WRs were BAD, defense at the end was BAD, but played well throughout most of the first 2 and a half quarters. Playcalling was inexcusable no matter what myth it creates. You can't force downfield passes when the run gets stuffed if the downfield pass hasn't worked AT ALL. You may have to actually get creative a little. I wanted more screens, bootlegs, rollouts. 

[Warhead36]

Kevin Sheehan on 980 just repeated the OP essentially, and agrees that it was execution more than playcalling.

 

We lost because our QB played terribly. Absolutely terribly. I'm talking Blaine Gabbert bad. You ain't beating anybody with that level of QB play, especially Peyton Manning in his house.

[grego]

 You may have to actually get creative a little. I wanted more screens, bootlegs, rollouts. 

 

 

i dont think theres any argument there. this is the main problem i have with our OC as it relates to yesterdays game. 

 

does anybody disagree with this?

[Warhead36]

Also there were TEN men in the box on that 1st down pass to Morgan. Not eight, not nine, TEN. You HAVE to throw against ten in the box. This ain't the 80s anymore folks.

[Box76]

I call BS on Myth#2. That OL is straight garbage. When the game is on the line they fold. The Skins are a running team with a play action passing game. Why in the holy hell do we get away from that? If Denver was selling out to stop the run it should be a no brainer to combat that with a PA pass or screen. Suck them in and make them pay. A good coaching staff would have had that figured out already. I'm ready to move on from them.

[grego]

Kevin Sheehan on 980 just repeated the OP essentially, and agrees that it was execution more than playcalling.

 

We lost because our QB played terribly. Absolutely terribly. I'm talking Blaine Gabbert bad. You ain't beating anybody with that level of QB play, especially Peyton Manning in his house.

 

 

ya, but if theres one thing sheehan wont do, its criticize kyle, although he did say what i and others said above- that we needed to try something else besides straight drops. 

 

kyle needs to come up with something there. 

agreed, warhead, that robert was bad yesterday, btw.

[Hooper]

Wonderful post.

 

I think we are seeing how bad RG3 missed the offseason and how the injury is still effecting him. Even if the injury didn't occur, it was still going to take him some time to learn how to be a solid pocket passer in the NFL. With the injury, he is throwing off his back foot on pretty much every throw, and is throwing high on a regular basis. He is also not recognizing coverages pre-snap and locking in far too often. 

 

Tough to watch -- and it must be brutal for him in the QB film room. "So RG3, um, there's Pierre wide open by 15 yards in the end zone on a play we told you would work..."