Skins Wingman Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 why in the world are we not throwing deep more? garcon seems to be the only receiver who can catch a short pass and turn it into a long gain, yet all we are doing is throwing short passes. robinson, hankerson, and moss all caught deep balls last year. they have the ability to stretch the field and open up more short passes/running lanes. But that only works if you test the defense and take shots. This dink and dunk passing game is really not working. we need to take more chances down the field and even if we don't complete theres still the chance at drawing pass interference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 I think part of the reason the deep ball was open last season was the freeze that RG3's potential for running out of PA or ZR put on LBs and the DBs. Our OL isn't very good at pass protection so now that he's currently running much less and being more of a "traditional" QB that relies on decent protection he isn't getting nearly as much time for deep routes to develop. I've been a bit frustrated by this as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gortiz Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 It's a totally symbiotic relationship. But you left off a key cog: Special Teams. I sure did ... it seems we have been losing the field position battle a lot due to bad punts, We haven't attempted many FGs due to Kai being hurt. Don't think we are doing to bad in coverage. On that note, you see that Lorenzo is out for the season, too bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gortiz Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 After watching the Griffin slide or butt drop at the start of the 3rd quarter of the Lions game, I got a feeling that our guy does not know how to slide because he is, until the very last second trying to get those extra yards. If you think about it, when you decide to slide you have to make that decision a good yard or two before you do it, it's not instant. I think in Robert's case, that is way to early to "give up" on those extra yards. Just a thought... I know it's not rocket science, but I think he's deciding so late to slide, he can't get in a good position to transition to the ground and we see the awkwardness. Think of asking a baseball player that is a free swinger to start choking up and shortening his swing when he gets two strikes ... you are probably going to see an unnatural swing, until he gets it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gortiz Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 Personall about the sliding (or lack there of) by RG3. It is much more difficult when you have a fast QB, such as Robert, to get the sliding down pat. Running with his speed and at full game day speed, is somewhat dangerous to slide. Now I am not saying don't slide. I am all for sliding. But, typically QB's who slide when being approached by defenders are not anywhere near running as fast as Griffin is. Perhaps benefit of the doubt, getting down head first is the way to possibly look at it. Especially (hypothetically thinking), if Griffin is comfortable sliding, baseball style with his right knee down, it's a cause for concern. should have read this before I posted ... I agree 100% Couple your theory with the fact that Robert likes contact, and you got trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins Wingman Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 I think part of the reason the deep ball was open last season was the freeze that RG3's potential for running out of PA or ZR put on LBs and the DBs. Our OL isn't very good at pass protection so now that he's currently running much less and being more of a "traditional" QB that relies on decent protection he isn't getting nearly as much time for deep routes to develop. I've been a bit frustrated by this as well. thats why i brought up the second point about pass interference. Even if the cb is on the wr like glue, chances are good there will be interference. sometimes you just gotta take the chance even if its not there. the 2nd eagles game last year, rg3 threw to moss in double coverage. granted, he had time to throw, but it was kind of a wing and prayer, and it ended up being a TD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted September 26, 2013 Author Share Posted September 26, 2013 You do not make those decisions on first down in opponent territory with coverage draped on a receiver and you're being heavily pressured. Not ONE aspect of that play was positive. And this is coming from a guy who thought Griffin, as a whole, played pretty well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins Wingman Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 During training camp I said I didn't think Robert was taking the sliding thing seriously.. I guess I was right. It seemed like he was doing it just to make everybody shutup and not actually practicing sliding. Now he comes out and says he doesn't know how to slide? He or the coaches should have taken time out to work on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskins4ever28 Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 I was kidding, and I agree with you regards Zorn. He was in over his head...came in to be OCoord and after Snyder/Vinny couldn't find anyone to be HC they defaulted to Zorn whose previous experience was as a QB coach. Complicating that...the roster was pretty barren and we were still under the Snyder/Vinny fantasy football philosophy of management. Good guy, very smart, but he was set up to fail before he even started. That said...Zorn gave us the embematic moment of the entire post-Gibbs era...the swinging gate. That moment - that play - was the lowest point of this storied franchise's history IMO Swinging gate was the most embarassing moment in my Redskins fandom career. More embarassing then Tim Hasselbeck having a 0.0 rating vs the Cowboys. More embarassing then that TERRIBLE game in the 90s vs the Jets. More embarassing the all the Spurrier years, including his last blowout loss to the Eagles. That Swinging Gate play made us look like we were the biggest joke the NFL had ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted September 26, 2013 Share Posted September 26, 2013 Not sure I'll have time this week to go through it like I always do (I'll watch the coaches film when it comes out, but not sure if I'll be able to do it with any kind of certainty). I'm not sure where you said that you would put Rob Jackson at ILBer. It may have been another thread. I said that last year at the end of the year when we weren't sure if London was coming back. I got chastised for it with so many people saying, "he's an OLB, he's too this, he's too that." Correct me if I'm wrong, but with him being a former DE, he has the size to play ILBer and he can also cover, which is what our ILBers are supposed to do. Our OLBers should be rushing the QB, while the ILBers cover the TEs and RBs. Jackson has shown he can cover. I'd switch Riley to the Mike LBer next year and give Jackson a shot at the Jack LBer. With Kerrigan, Riley, Jackson, Orakpo across the front with possibly Kehl/Barnett (depends if they are re-signed), Will Compton, BJenkins and Tapp (has to be resigned) next year, that's a stacked LBer corp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedro Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 I've always thought it would be a waste of the pass rush, not going to happen, but Kerrigan makes stuff happen when he gets around the ball and playing ILB would help create more of that. Jackson isn't the same level pass rusher and is better in coverage which is needed as PJF says above, and also has a knack for good stuff happening. Some physical stats to compare: Patrick Wilis 6' 1", 240lbs, 4.51s 40, Ray Lewis 6' 1", 240lbs, 4.58s 40, Perry Riley 6' 0", 238lbs, 4.56s, (as his low time, 4.69 high) Rob Jackson 6' 4", 266lbs, 4.78s 40. (Orakpo 4.63, Kerrigan 4.67, both same height and about same weight) Is Jackson too big lol? Upon checking Urlacher is the same height, 257lbs and a 4.57s 40. Sean Lee ran a 4.72 (6'2", 245lbs) so maybe he's fast enough? EDIT: Tracks for the 40 times could make a difference, Willis ran a 4.37s 40 at his pro day versus a 4.51s 40 at the combine on a different track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZRagone Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 ------ RULE 7 Ball in Play, Dead Ball, Scrimmage ... Section 2 Dead Ball Article 1: Dead Ball Declared. An official shall declare the ball dead and the down ended: ... (e) when a runner is out of bounds, or declares himself down by falling to the ground, or kneeling, and making no effort to advance ------ A dive, when not touched, IS an effort to advance. That's why you could dive untouched, hit the ground, slide a yard across the goal line and it'd be considered a touch down. The very act of the dive, by virtue of it not resulting in you being considered "Down", IS an effort to advance and thus doesn't count. If, AFTER you dive, you proceed to lay there and not move THEN you are making "no effort to advance" and the Ref's can rule you down. But the ACT of diving is an effort to advance, and thus RG3 was showing "effort to advance" all the way up to the point when he smacked into the ground and continued to move slightly forward after that initial contact. The call was absolutely spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 I know your kidding but unlike most I harbor no ill will or blame towards gym Zorn. He was coaching with handcuffs on from the outset. He was saddled with a bad team and difficult players. And he did the best he could. For those that are objective about Campbell can clearly see that Campbell improved greatly while playing under Zorn. I have little doubt that Zorn would be a great QB coach for Griffin especially in the mechanics and technical aspects. I think Jim Zorn was and is a good QB coach who just got promoted way out of his depth. Thats on the people who hired him not Zorn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stugein Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 A dive, when not touched, IS an effort to advance. That's why you could dive untouched, hit the ground, slide a yard across the goal line and it'd be considered a touch down. The very act of the dive, by virtue of it not resulting in you being considered "Down", IS an effort to advance and thus doesn't count. If, AFTER you dive, you proceed to lay there and not move THEN you are making "no effort to advance" and the Ref's can rule you down. But the ACT of diving is an effort to advance, and thus RG3 was showing "effort to advance" all the way up to the point when he smacked into the ground and continued to move slightly forward after that initial contact. The call was absolutely spot on. It wasn't a dive, he laid down flat. It was the same as the Cruz play he was just moving faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted September 27, 2013 Author Share Posted September 27, 2013 Doesn't matter. If you go head first and are not contacted upon landing, you have to control the ball throughout before the play is blown dead. The ball came out and it was correctly ruled a fumble. If you are contacted upon diving, the second your knee/elbow/butt hit the ground you're down. If he slid, he's automatically down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Have any of you claiming that it is similar to the Cruz play actually watched the Cruz play recently? Cruz goes down to the ground, mantains possession while hitting on the ground (so he's laying on the ground with ball clearly in his hands), and then when gets up, he leaves the ball behind (and then the Card defenders who had surrounded him jump on it). http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d822c61da/Down-by-non-contact If the ball had popped out when Cruz hit the ground, it would have a been a fumble. Cruz clearly mantains control of the ball and is on the ground with control. RGIII did not mantain posssesion while hitting the ground. That's why it is a fumble. If you know anything about football, the difference between the two plays is night and day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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