Washington Examiner: Companies Lay Off Thousands, Then Demand Immigration Reform For New Labor

[WakkaWakka]

This is why immigration has largely been unchecked at our southern border. Republicans act like they are against illegal immigration, yet when they are in power they do nothing. All this kicking and stomping about the gang of eight immigration bill is just political theatre for their base. And Dems can pretend to be for it to appease the bleeding hearts of their base, but the real motive is cheap labor and the downward pressure said cheap labor has on compensation within various sectors of the economy. All at the behest of their corporate task masters. Both want to destroy the middle class. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how this cynical son of a **** sees it.

 

See below:

 

http://washingtonexaminer.com/companies-lay-off-thousands-then-demand-immigration-reform-for-new-labor/article/2535595

 

"On Tuesday, the chief human resources officers of more than 100 large corporations sent a letter to House Speaker John Boehner and Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi urging quick passage of a comprehensive immigration reform bill.

 

The officials represent companies with a vast array of business interests: General Electric, The Walt Disney Company, Marriott International, Hilton Worldwide, Hyatt Hotels Corporation, McDonald's Corporation, The Wendy's Company, Coca-Cola, The Cheesecake Factory, Johnson & Johnson, Verizon Communications, Hewlett-Packard, General Mills, and many more. All want to see increases in immigration levels for low-skill as well as high-skill workers, in addition to a path to citizenship for the millions of immigrants currently in the U.S. illegally.

 

A new immigration law, the corporate officers say, "would be a long overdue step toward aligning our nation's immigration policies with its workforce needs at all skill levels to ensure U.S. global competitiveness...."

 

"For example, Hewlett-Packard, whose Executive Vice President for Human Resources Tracy Keogh signed the letter, laid off 29,000 employees in 2012. In August of this year, Cisco Systems, whose Senior Vice President and Chief Human Resources Officer Kathleen Weslock signed the letter, announced plans to lay off 4,000 — in addition to 8,000 cut in the last two years. United Technologies, whose Senior Vice President of Human Resources and Organization Elizabeth B. Amato signed the letter, announced layoffs of 3,000 this year. American Express, whose Chief Human Resources Officer L. Kevin Cox signed the letter, cut 5,400 jobs this year. Procter & Gamble, whose Chief Human Resources Officer Mark F. Biegger signed the letter, announced plans to cut 5,700 jobs in 2012.

Those are just a few of the layoffs at companies whose officials signed the letter. A few more: T-Mobile announced 2,250 layoffs in 2012. Archer-Daniels-Midland laid off 1,200. Texas Instruments, nearly 2,000. Cigna, 1,300. Verizon sought to cut 1,700 jobs by buyouts and layoffs. Marriott announced "hundreds" of layoffs this year. International Paper has closed plants and laid off dozens. And General Mills, in what the Minneapolis Star-Tribune called a "rare mass layoff," laid off 850 people last year."

[Slateman]

How does immigration reform result in cheap labor?

[Larry]

How does immigration reform result in cheap labor?

What happens to the price of something, when you increase the supply?

[twa]

How does immigration reform result in cheap labor?

 

What happens to the price of something, when you increase the supply?

unless it is oil

 

but you are right ,increasing the labor pool puts downward pressure on wages

while illegal immigration does that mainly to cheap labor{less skilled manual labor}

[Predicto]

This story casts its net too widely.  

 

Most of those tech companies are trying to bring in more engineers and tech guys, to keep them here rather than having them take their skills back to China and Korea and India.  Their interest in immigration reform is not the same as that of Archer Daniels Midland or Marriott.  

[LadySkinsFan]

"'...ensure U.S. global competitiveness....'"

 

Meaning cutting wages and benefits of US workers to be more in line with 3rd world wages/benefits.  Meaning eviserate the Middle Class.

 

No Middle Class, no consumers buying stuff other than necessities.  Referenced companies above fail and lay off even more workers so they can keep their million dollar executive salaries until the companies fail and the aforementioned executives make off with their multi-million dollar golden parachutes and workers are out of work and retirees benefits are cut to nearly nothing.  Meanwhile, those left working for wages pay ever more in taxes to support the social safety nets while Republicans continue to whittle away at those until people are homeless, foodless, and dying for want of health care.  Welcome to America of the future, we're on our way now!

[Larry]

How does immigration reform result in cheap labor?

What happens to the price of something, when you increase the supply?

unless it is oil

 

True. My statement did assume a free market. 

but you are right ,increasing the labor pool puts downward pressure on wages

while illegal immigration does that mainly to cheap labor{less skilled manual labor}

Most of those tech companies are trying to bring in more engineers and tech guys, to keep them here rather than having them take their skills back to China and Korea and India.  Their interest in immigration reform is not the same as that of Archer Daniels Midland or Marriott.

Actually think I'm gonna say that twa's statement is closer to the truth.

Both kinds of corporations are looking to use immigrants to lower wages. They're simply pushing for different segments of the labor market.

[Predicto]

 Larry said:

 

Actually think I'm gonna say that twa's statement is closer to the truth.

Both kinds of corporations are looking to use immigrants to lower wages. They're simply pushing for different segments of the labor market.

 

 

I guess in the abstract.  

 

But I dunno.  I'm out here and I know a lot of tech people.  They don't seem to mind paying high wages.  Their real problem, at least right now, is that they lose so many talented speciality engineers because they can't get them the H1 visas they need to stay in the country, and there aren't nearly enough people with those sorts of skills to fill demand.  When they leave, those people start companies in India and Korea and China, and the US loses its edge in high tech.     

 

Our immigration system can be broken and irrational in more than one way at the same time.    

[twa]

I thought the H1's were fairly easy for companies to get?

the fees and regs,along with it being temporary would seem the real issue for most....along with the backup in Green card applications.

the system is definitely screwy

[Larry]

And yet, the folks who hire the illegals say the same thing. "Americans just won't work for 'market wages'."

To which I keep reflecting that I seem to remember being taught that the 'market price' was defined as the price at which supply equals demand.

That, if the price you're offering doesn't get enough sellers to meet your demand, then you aren't offering the market price.

[WakkaWakka]

Edit: no point in ranting.

[skinsmarydu]

I think LSF's post (#6) should be added on to "Good Will Hunting's" rant about why he shouldn't work for the NSA.  That would almost flow together perfectly.

[HBnotBlades]

But I dunno.  I'm out here and I know a lot of tech people.  They don't seem to mind paying high wages.  Their real problem, at least right now, is that they lose so many talented speciality engineers because they can't get them the H1 visas they need to stay in the country, and there aren't nearly enough people with those sorts of skills to fill demand.  When they leave, those people start companies in India and Korea and China, and the US loses its edge in high tech.     

 

Our immigration system can be broken and irrational in more than one way at the same time.

 

This is dead on.

Lots of recently minted PhDs are being forced to go back to China and India to work. These scientists/engineers come here and are trained under grants from our government, then when they are ready to be drivers of technology and leaders in their field we send them away, even when they want to stay and can fill positions that no one else can. It really doesn't make any sense. I've seen this happen to at least a handful of brilliant people after their PhD/post docs over the past few years.

[Predicto]

 

This is dead on.

Lots of recently minted PhDs are being forced to go back to China and India to work. These scientists/engineers come here and are trained under grants from our government, then when they are ready to be drivers of technology and leaders in their field we sent them away, even when they want to stay and can fill positions that no one else can. It really doesn't make any sense. I've seen this happen to at least a handful of brilliant people after their PhD/post docs over the past few years.

 

 

The difference between those people and the typical worker is that they have unique, rare and valuable skills.  If you boot Albert Einstein or Sergey Brin out of your country, you can't just replace him with another worker and reap the same benefits.

[Corcaigh]

I thought the H1's were fairly easy for companies to get?

the fees and regs,along with it being temporary would seem the real issue for most....along with the backup in Green card applications.

the system is definitely screwy

There is a quota for H1s and many are taken by offshoring companies (predominantly Indian) and contractors. This should be stopped now. These people are treated (more) like indentured servants and confuse the issue and that screws up tech companies looking to attract talent here.

As Predicto said, the messed up immigration system isn't just messed up in one area.

My company can't hire enough qualified software engineers and no-one has ever turned us down based on salary. Our options are either to grow more slowly or pay someone in another country to do the work.

"'...ensure U.S. global competitiveness....'"

 

Meaning cutting wages and benefits of US workers to be more in line with 3rd world wages/benefits.  Meaning eviserate the Middle Class.

Don't confuse companies who compete on cost minimization, with those who compete on (high value) innovation.

[NoCalMike]

I think two different issues are being blended.  Tech companies in need of qualified workers, is a separate issue from low-skill, low wage service/industrial/warehouse/blue collar workers being booted from their jobs and replaced with a cheaper labor force.

 

Usually when you hear "global competativeness" it is code for "we'd rather pay slave wages in countries that won't force us to provide a safe working place" (among many other despicable business practices not required in those countries).

 

I am still amazed that folks think THAT is the kind of work environment that should be brought to American in order to "compete"

[balki1867]

I think two different issues are being blended.  Tech companies in need of qualified workers, is a separate issue from low-skill, low wage service/industrial/warehouse/blue collar workers being booted from their jobs and replaced with a cheaper labor force.

 

Usually when you hear "global competativeness" it is code for "we'd rather pay slave wages in countries that won't force us to provide a safe working place" (among many other despicable business practices not required in those countries).

 

I am still amazed that folks think THAT is the kind of work environment that should be brought to American in order to "compete"

 

What's funny is that as the Chinese middle class has grown, workers there are starting to want better conditions.  Some automakers have moved pieces of design/manufacturing work for the most simple parts to even cheaper parts of the world like Vietnam.

[twa]

The difference between those people and the typical worker is that they have unique, rare and valuable skills.  If you boot Albert Einstein or Sergey Brin out of your country, you can't just replace him with another worker and reap the same benefits.

how many of those are there a year?....20K?

 

I certainly agree the unique, rare and valuable should be welcomed,but 100's of thousands seems to be lowering that bar,Corcaigh has a good point on that

[Corcaigh]

The Brookings Institution has some data on the tech side of H1 visas, unfilled positions and impact on salaries

http://www.brookings.edu/research/papers/2013/05/10-h1b-visas-stem-rothwell-ruiz

[Predicto]

how many of those are there a year?....20K?

 

I certainly agree the unique, rare and valuable should be welcomed,but 100's of thousands seems to be lowering that bar,Corcaigh has a good point on that

 

Hard to tell exactly which ones they will be in advance, I think.   I'm generally in favor of having the US be the place where as many of the well educated STEM workers congregate, but I'm not saying that there aren't possible downsides to expanding that program.  Every policy change has possible downsides as well as upsides.

[LadySkinsFan]

Why aren't we handing out scholarships/grants to US kids to attend colleges and universities and prepare our kids for high paying, high tech jobs instead of supporting foreign students?  US students have to take out massive student loans to get through just 4 year degree programs let alone advanced degree programs.  It's the same reason why I question the massive foreign aid we hand out when our own infrastruction is crumbling and we need to invest here at home.

[Slateman]

What happens to the price of something, when you increase the supply?

 

The prices goes down.

 

Except that doesn't apply here as the price of labor would go up. Right now, there are undocumented immigrants who are working for nothing without any paperwork. Once they're legal, the company that hired them will have to make it legal, thus increasing the amount they will have to pay them. Thus the price of goods will come up.

 

So how does making millions of illegal workers legal somehow make for cheaper labor?

 

 

Why

aren't we handing out scholarships/grants to US kids to attend colleges

and universities and prepare our kids for high paying, high tech jobs

instead of supporting foreign students?  US students have to take out

massive student loans to get through just 4 year degree programs let

alone advanced degree programs.  It's the same reason why I question the

massive foreign aid we hand out when our own infrastruction is

crumbling and we need to invest here at home.

 

That would require parents' to be at home to ensure their children have the proper education prior to college.

[LadySkinsFan]

Whatever happened to import tariffs that are supposed to equalize the price of imported goods produced by cheap labor with the price of goods produced by US workers?  The short story is that corporations have lobbied to all but abandon import tariffs.

[twa]

Why aren't we handing out scholarships/grants to US kids to attend colleges and universities and prepare our kids for high paying, high tech jobs instead of supporting foreign students?  US students have to take out massive student loans to get through just 4 year degree programs let alone advanced degree programs.  It's the same reason why I question the massive foreign aid we hand out when our own infrastruction is crumbling and we need to invest here at home.

I thought STEM grants and scholarships were more available than students willing to use them?

maybe I'm wrong

[Larry]

The prices goes down.

Except that doesn't apply here as the price of labor would go up. Right now, there are undocumented immigrants who are working for nothing without any paperwork. Once they're legal, the company that hired them will have to make it legal, thus increasing the amount they will have to pay them. Thus the price of goods will come up.

So how does making millions of illegal workers legal somehow make for cheaper labor?

So, your point is that companies like McDonalds and Disney want the government to throw open a flood of immigration, because they think it will cause the price of labor to go UP?