***2021-2022 NBA Season Thread***

[Predicto]

GG. Sensational shooting night from Curry. The rim was a hula hoop.

My question is why does Golden State even bother to play Bogut at this point? Just to goon it up? They're unbelievable when they go tiny.

 

 

Because Bogut is a top 3 rim protector, a great passer, and sets the best screens in the NBA.

 

Going small is exhausting, especially for Draymond Green, who has to bang with guys who are half a foot taller and outweigh him by 60 lbs.   In short stretches it's awesome, but the longer they play it, the less effective it gets.  

[Predicto]

Westbrook had 24-19-14 last night.

How the **** does a PG get 19 rebounds????

 

 

By everyone else on the Thunder boxing out on the defensive boards and dropping back rather than going for offensive boards.  Westbrook is the only player allowed to freelance, follow his shot, etc.  Don't get me wrong, Westbrook is fantastic, but the system they run helps his stats a lot.

 

It's interesting.  Guard rebounding totals are up all over the league.   Teams finally figured out two things.  First, with 3 pointers you get more long rebounds that go out beyond the paint away from the big men.  Second, that if you let your bigs crash the offensive boards too much, they can't get back on defense where they need to be.  So they are letting the guards go for the rebounds.   

[Going Commando]

Because Bogut is a top 3 rim protector, a great passer, and sets the best screens in the NBA.

 

Going small is exhausting, especially for Draymond Green, who has to bang with guys who are half a foot taller and outweigh him by 60 lbs.   In short stretches it's awesome, but the longer they play it, the less effective it gets.

I don't know. Bogut is slow and relies on fouling and I thought Draymond Green was actually a more effective rim protector last night. It was much better for us when Bogut was in because it meant we got to play Gortat. When Gortat was on Green, he was getting embarrassed. Ended up having to guard Curry on the perimeter half the time. And then we'd have to check in Nene and we lost that PnR element to the offense.

[Predicto]

I think DPOY is an interesting debate this year. Duncan, Drummond, Leonard, Green, and Whiteside are all worthy of strong consideration IMO.

 

 

 

Not Whiteside.   The Heat play better team defense when he isn't in the game.   He blocks shots, but has bad court awareness.  

 

Choose between Leonard or Duncan.   The Spurs defense is hugely better than anyone else in the NBA, and they are the two reasons why,.

is the guy rooting for the standing champion, on pace for the best season in the entire history of the league, whinging about his fan misery?

 

 

 

 

And the bitter Kings contingent is heard from.   Don't worry, we understand.  Kings fandom misery is hard to match.   

[Predicto]

I don't know. Bogut is slow and relies on fouling and I thought Draymond Green was actually a more effective rim protector last night. It was much better for us when Bogut was in because it meant we got to play Gortat. When Gortat was on Green, he was getting embarrassed. Ended up having to guard Curry on the perimeter half the time. And then we'd have to check in Nene and we lost that PnR element to the offense.

 

 

A one game sample isn't much.   Bogut is slow afoot, but he is very smart and long, and he is always where he should be.   Where he makes his difference is not in guarding the opposing center, but knowing when to go into help defense and force driving guards and wings into lower percentage shots.  

 

I'm not saying he's all-NBA, but he has serious value for us, as does Festus Ezeli.  Draymond can't be asked to do everything, all game, every game.  He'd be exhausted and would foul out by the second quarter.  

[Going Commando]

BTW, Nene was surprisingly effective against Draymond last night. He runs much faster than you'd expect, I was surprised to see him show so hard on the pick and rolls and string the guards out wide. He was very aggressive defending them. And he's a lot stronger than Draymond so he was able to kind of power his way to the basket and draw the help defender.

Nene has an unusual combination of footspeeed, brute size and strength, IQ, and hardness. A lot of bigs like him are soft, but he's one of the only ones that turns the table on guys who are normally bullies, like Noah and Green.

I don't know what they could give up, and the Wizards won't trade him because they want his expiring contract to keep the Durant pipe dream alive, but the Cavs should trade for him. Be nice to have in a Finals series against Golden State.

[Predicto]

Nene is pretty damn good when he is focused.

 

Remember, however, that the reason the Warriors small ball lineup works is not because Draymond can completely shut down the other teams big men.  He can't actually do that.  Big men regularly score on him.    The reason it works is because he can defend them reasonably well and not get totally abused, while in the meantime, they can't defend him at all and the Warriors offense goes crazy at the other end.  

 

Lots of bigs get 8 fairly quick points against Draymond, but then you look at the scoreboard and the Dubs have just gone on a 22-8 run during that time.  

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

Kevin Durant. If he went to GS, would your opinion of him change? I like Durant. He seems to be a really good guy, plus he's a Skins fan. But if he went to GS, doesn't he lose a level of respect? What if LeBron did that?

No, he shouldn't lose respect for leaving and going to a contender.   Why should he lose respect for wanting to win a ring?  Some of the all-time greats switched teams chasing a ring:  Barkley, Stockton, Malone, Drexler, Shaq, LeBron, etc.

 

If LeBron left Cleveland hanging again and went to Golden State, yes, he would catch hell for it, considering he already bolted in Cleveland and assembled the super team in Miami and won two championships.

 

Wizard fans thought they were contenders after last season (and rightfully so) and had no problem with KD bolting Oklahoma to come to DC.  Now that they are struggling and have less of a shot at getting Durant (imo), he loses respect for going to Golden State (should that happen)?

Edited February 4, 2016 by Dont Taze Me Bro

[RonArtest15]

Ultimate goal of any player in the NBA is to win a ring.  FA is set up for players to (obviously) have complete control over where they go.  There is nothing wrong with KD going to GS or anywhere else. 

 

I also had no issue with Lebron going to Miami.  75% of the hate was due to the debacle that was "The Decision." 

[Going Commando]

Durant is already on a contender. His situation isn't like LeBron's was at the end of his first stretch in Cleveland. He's already playing with another MVP caliber player, and the roster is filled with good role players.

But if GS sets the all time wins record and gets back to back championships, then yeah, going to them to be the beta dog to Curry is a cowardly move for a guy like Durant. It would forever cement him as a lesser player than the likes of LeBron and Curry.

LeBron left a hopeless situation in Cleveland where the roster had completely deteriorated around him, and built something new in Miami. Miami was a middling team the season before LeBron and Bosh showed up. And the whole roster aside from Wade and Beasley was reset during their arrival. Durant would be hitching a ride on what is already one of the greatest teams in NBA history.

If Durant wants his legacy to be like Larry Bird and not Mark Aguirre, then he won't do it.

Also Durant going to DC would be different. The Wizards are a lottery team with nobody close to the stature of Durant on the roster. He would come in and take over this organization day one. And if he powered the team to a title, it would be on his back and nobody else's.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

Ultimate goal of any player in the NBA is to win a ring.  FA is set up for players to (obviously) have complete control over where they go.  There is nothing wrong with KD going to GS or anywhere else. 

 

I also had no issue with Lebron going to Miami.  75% of the hate was due to the debacle that was "The Decision." 

Yeah, The Decision was what fueled the hate I initially had for LeBron moving.  I got over it eventually after a season or two.  I never blamed him for leaving, even if I did trash talk about it.  

[Momma There Goes That Man]

It's not fair that players are graded for essentislly staying in **** situations rather than utilizing free agency to find a better spot.

Now Durant is in a very good situation already so I can see the feeling of resentment if he bolted for an even better one.

Lebron was hated mostly for the way he massacres his hometown team on a national television special, his ridiculous arrogance and the whole pep rally declaration of basically owning the NBA for 8 years etc

Edited February 4, 2016 by Momma There Goes That Man

[StillUnknown]

Mike Monroe
‏@Monroe_SA
Per #Spurs, @manuginobili out at least a month after surgery to repair a testicular injury suffered last night.

 

 

yeah thats something no man wants to hear

[DM72]

No, he shouldn't lose respect for leaving and going to a contender.   Why should he lose respect for wanting to win a ring?  Some of the all-time greats switched teams chasing a ring:  Barkley, Stockton, Malone, Drexler, Shaq, LeBron, etc.

 

If LeBron left Cleveland hanging again and went to Golden State, yes, he would catch hell for it, considering he already bolted in Cleveland and assembled the super team in Miami and won two championships.

 

Wizard fans thought they were contenders after last season (and rightfully so) and had no problem with KD bolting Oklahoma to come to DC.  Now that they are struggling and have less of a shot at getting Durant (imo), he loses respect for going to Golden State (should that happen)?

One difference between Durant and all those guys, minus LeBron, is that those guys were nearing the end of their careers. Barkley still had something left, but it's not as if he went to Chicago and rode Jordan's coattail. If Durant went to GS at this stage, he'd look weak IMO.

[StillUnknown]

One difference between Durant and all those guys, minus LeBron, is that those guys were nearing the end of their careers. Barkley still had something left, but it's not as if he went to Chicago and rode Jordan's coattail. If Durant went to GS at this stage, he'd look weak IMO.

 

would you rather look "weak" with a title or strong without one?

Edited February 4, 2016 by StillUnknown

[Destino]

would you rather look "weak" with a title or strong without one?

 

Which ever option pays better. 

Mike Monroe

‏@Monroe_SA

Per #Spurs, @manuginobili out at least a month after surgery to repair a testicular injury suffered last night.

 

 

yeah thats something no man wants to hear

 

"Ball don't lie" - saw this comment on ESPN

 

I've taken more hits to the groin playing sports than I care to remember but nothing ever required more than just waiting for the terrible awful horrible pain to stop.  I can't imagine taking a hit so hard it required surgery.  The pain must have been unimaginable. 

[Predicto]

One difference between Durant and all those guys, minus LeBron, is that those guys were nearing the end of their careers. Barkley still had something left, but it's not as if he went to Chicago and rode Jordan's coattail. If Durant went to GS at this stage, he'd look weak IMO.

 

 

Maybe.  Or maybe he would get multiple rings and be remembered as an integral part of a epic dynasty, as well as a HoF individual player.  That would not be all bad.

 

It isn't going to happen, but it's interesting to talk about. 

[DM72]

would you rather look "weak" with a title or strong without one?

His legacy would take a hit. You know as well as I do that people will forever say, "but he had to go to GS to get a ring. He couldn't do it with his own team."

I ask, do you think if Malone had won a title with the Lakers, that it would have had the same value as if he won it in Utah? The same question would be asked about Durant.

[Predicto]

His legacy would take a hit. You know as well as I do that people will forever say, "but he had to go to GS to get a ring. He couldn't do it with his own team."

I ask, do you think if Malone had won a title with the Lakers, that it would have had the same value as if he won it in Utah? The same question would be asked about Durant.

 

 

Sure.  But what about if he stays with OKC and never wins a title.  Then he gets to be Malone or Charles Barkley or Reggie Miller.  That's a hit too.   

[CRobi21]

**Warning**

 

Link contains a Vine of the Ginobli testicle injury. Click at your own risk.

 

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2016/2/4/10918660/manu-ginobili-injury-spurs-testicles-no

 

Edited February 4, 2016 by STBonecrusher21

[DM72]

Sure.  But what about if he stays with OKC and never wins a title.  Then he gets to be Malone or Charles Barkley or Reggie Miller.  That's a hit too.

Unless you are the absolute best of an era, there's really no shame in going ringless. Now if he's on his last legs and then he wants to coattail it to a championship. More power to him. But now, his rep would take a beating if he would go to GS to be a second banana.

[Predicto]

Obama was having fun today laying a sick burn on the Warriors

 

 

[DM72]

More of his jokes are flat, but he nailed that one.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

One difference between Durant and all those guys, minus LeBron, is that those guys were nearing the end of their careers. Barkley still had something left, but it's not as if he went to Chicago and rode Jordan's coattail. If Durant went to GS at this stage, he'd look weak IMO.

Shaq bolted after four seasons in Orlando.  Bron bolted after 7 in Cleveland.  Yes the others listed bolted at the end of their careers.  It's not weak, KD is in his 9th season with the Sonics/Thunder.  

 

If GS can afford him and he wants to go to the franchise that can give him the best chance to win a championship, why hold that against him?  What's he supposed to do, rot away in Oklahoma?  Not take an offer from a legit contender?   So in order to avoid criticism, he has to stay where he is at or go to another team that won't give him the best chance to get a ring?

His legacy would take a hit. You know as well as I do that people will forever say, "but he had to go to GS to get a ring. He couldn't do it with his own team."

I ask, do you think if Malone had won a title with the Lakers, that it would have had the same value as if he won it in Utah? The same question would be asked about Durant.

 

I'm sure at the end of the day, KD and the majority of players could care less about what people say as long as they get paid and get rings.  Where is the outrage/tarnishing for Shaq's legacy.  He left after 4 years and getting swept in the finals to play for Phil Jackson and win three rings.

Unless you are the absolute best of an era, there's really no shame in going ringless. Now if he's on his last legs and then he wants to coattail it to a championship. More power to him. But now, his rep would take a beating if he would go to GS to be a second banana.

I think after 9 failed seasons to win it all with the same franchise (assuming they don't win it all this year) that he has earned the right to go where ever he wants, reputation/legacy intact.  

Edited February 4, 2016 by Dont Taze Me Bro

[Going Commando]

Shaq won his rings with the Lakers as the guy. Durant would presumably win rings as the sidekick at best, the mercenary at worst. He goes from being considered in the same strata as LeBron and Larry Bird to being, at best, Scottie Pippen, or at worst, Adrian Dantley/Mark Aguirre.

His legacy would absolutely take a hit. It's not enough for a player of Durant's stature to win rings. He has to win them as the guy. The alpha player and leader of his team.

And Durant is a natural alpha. He's not going to want to go and be Steph Curry's sidekick. That's why I think this discussion is moot. The most likely thing that will happen is he signs a one and one deal for OKC with an out for the second season. Then he'll see what Westbrook does the next summer. If Westbrook bolts, then I can see him leaving. But he's not going to go join up with LeBron or Curry. He'll go to a team where he can both contend AND be the clear cut leader and best player. That pretty much puts everyone BUT Golden State and Cleveland in play.

The other thing is, for a player as good as Durant, a whole lot of other stuff other than surrounding talent gets put into play. He's so good that he'll be looking at bigger picture stuff. He'll make any team he joins a contender. And every team will want to sign him. So he gets to be so much more selective and heavily consider things like, does he believe in the front office? Does he believe in the coaching staff? Does he like the community? Does he have good relationships with the extant players? Can he get extra leverage with a front office like LeBron did?