Bubble Screen Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 (edited) ****, we seemed to have all forgot about that. Great point Sterling has zero chance of remaining the owner of the Clippers.It's a non-issue. Edited June 26, 2014 by Bubble Screen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 How does Lebron opting out help the Heat? I'm confused. Sure it frees them up to sign players but if they do that how do they sign Lebron to a huge deal? They'll still need to have room to pay James either way. What am I missing? Also if James leaves to form another super team his legacy is impacted negatively. How many stars in league history would have been unable to win say, 5 rings, if they spent 8 years on teams assembled specifically to have the most talent possible and jumping ship to do it again as soon as something went wrong? It doesn't make him a bad person but it adds a less flattering detail to how Lebron came about his success. LeBron opting out doesn't help Miami. It probably means they'll have to pay him a 35% max deal now. Or it means he's leaving, which would devastate them. I don't think LeBron leaves. But if he does, you're right. It absolutely negatively effects his legacy. His legacy was already negatively impacted by leaving in 2010. If he leaves a second time he will be forever remembered as a mercenary and NBA vagabond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattFancy Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/wp/2014/06/25/kevin-durant-defends-lebron-james-talks-about-his-own-free-agency/ LOL, the NBA's reigning NBA. New award? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeWolf990 Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Lets chill on this legacy talk. None of us know what the future will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 (edited) How does Lebron opting out help the Heat? I'm confused. Sure it frees them up to sign players but if they do that how do they sign Lebron to a huge deal? They'll still need to have room to pay James either way. What am I missing? Also if James leaves to form another super team his legacy is impacted negatively. How many stars in league history would have been unable to win say, 5 rings, if they spent 8 years on teams assembled specifically to have the most talent possible and jumping ship to do it again as soon as something went wrong? It doesn't make him a bad person but it adds a less flattering detail to how Lebron came about his success. The way I understand it is: It gives them the opportunity to go over the cap and therefore improve the team (if they are willing) in a manner that they couldn't with them under contract. The Heat can exceed the cap to sign him now that he's a FA where, but if he opts in, then his salary 100% counts towards their cap with respect to singing new players this year. If all 3 opt in, then they can only exceed the cap to sign their own free agents and all three of their contracts count against the cap when signing other players. In other words, the Heat would have limited opportunity to get better if all 3 opt in. It also actually improves their negotiating position with him because they have the ability to offer a 5th year and other teams can't. For next year, he was already supposed to make close to the max of what his next contract can be so that isn't a big difference. Yes, they likely will still have to pay him a lot of money, but they have more options of how to do it and what to do with respect to signing other players. What James is saying is I'm going to give you a strong financial negotiating position AND an opportunity to improve the team. And yes, he's going to make a ton of money too, but that's happening any way this goes down. Edited June 26, 2014 by PeterMP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 (edited) Opting out doesn't help or hurt Miami. It's neutral right now. Opting in would have hurt Miami. Opting in while Wade opts in would cripple Miami. Wade's decision is still the one that matters. If he opts in at 20 per year, Miami doesn't have a lot of wiggle room even if Lebron and Bosh give them discounts. I still think he ultimately stays with Miami, but I bet he signs a very short term deal. Zach Lowe made an interesting point on his podcast. Lebron could time his free agency until after the next tv deal is signed, which is likely going to be huge. That will drive the league reveneus up and increase the salary cap, which makes the max contract higher. Lebron at 31 or 32 would still likely command max money and he could coast into his late 30s on some enormous contracts. Edited June 26, 2014 by Lombardi's_kid_brother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 (edited) Opting out doesn't help or hurt Miami. It's neutral right now. Opting in would have hurt Miami. Opting in while Wade opts in would cripple Miami. Wade's decision is still the one that matters. If he opts in at 20 per year, Miami doesn't have a lot of wiggle room even if Lebron and Bosh give them discounts. This is true, and the part that I quoted talked about Wade being the key. If you are the Heat, you need Wade to opt out too. (And if he doesn't, I wouldn't be shocked if James leaves.) Edited June 26, 2014 by PeterMP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 (edited) In terms of James' legacy, I don't see how you can blame him for organizational mistakes. He didn't tell the Heat to sign Wade to a max contract. If you look at the other teams that had multiple championships, they avoided the sort of situation where they are paying a guy a huge amount of money that realistically isn't even an All Star talent. I think Pippen is over rated by many, but he played for years with the Bulls where he was essentially being under paid (note I've had this discussion with JMS before, and I don't blame the Bulls.) Pippen wanted a long term contract because he had back issues. The Bulls signed him to one. The deal ended up working out well for the Bulls. It isn't like Jordan helped make that decision. If Pippen didn't sign a long term contract and he becomes a FA in the middle of their run, who knows what happens. And I doubt Jordan was telling management to sign Pippen to a long term contract when the contract was signed. He benefited from a decision he was not involved in. Winning championships requires more than just a great player playing their best. It requires an organization that makes good decisions (and those good decisions might be the result of luck). The Cleveland organization didn't make good decisions. The Heat used their amnesty on Miller, while having Wade with the contract that he has. That wasn't a good decision in terms of winning basketball games at least (and I'm not saying if the kept Miller they would have beaten the Spurs. Miller wouldn't have been enough of a difference maker.) Edited June 26, 2014 by PeterMP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubble Screen Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 LeBron opting out doesn't help Miami. It probably means they'll have to pay him a 35% max deal now. Or it means he's leaving, which would devastate them. I don't think LeBron leaves. But if he does, you're right. It absolutely negatively effects his legacy. His legacy was already negatively impacted by leaving in 2010. If he leaves a second time he will be forever remembered as a mercenary and NBA vagabond. I'm not a LeBron fan by any means, but I don't think him going to Miami negatively affects his legacy. Nor do I think him leaving Miami would. You have to look at the two things separately. To me, the only thing he really messed up was the stupid decision thing. That was a clown show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 I'm not a LeBron fan by any means, but I don't think him going to Miami negatively affects his legacy. Nor do I think him leaving Miami would. You have to look at the two things separately. I don't think moving around impacts anyone's legacy. Shaq, Wilt, Moses, Kareem, Dr. J....they all played on multiple teams and in some cases multiple leagues. Barkley is not making jokes with Kenny Smith right now if he had ended his career fat and bitter in Philly. If Lebron moves again, he needs to be in the Finals within 2 years though. Moving and not winning would hurt his legacy, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 I don't think moving around impacts anyone's legacy. Shaq, Wilt, Moses, Kareem, Dr. J....they all played on multiple teams and in some cases multiple leagues. Barkley is not making jokes with Kenny Smith right now if he had ended his career fat and bitter in Philly. If Lebron moves again, he needs to be in the Finals within 2 years though. Moving and not winning would hurt his legacy, I think. I wouldn't put a time limit on it in terms of something like that. Just to make up something pretty extreme, let's say he goes to the Sixers and with the incorporating the young players, they aren't a finals level team in the next 2 years, but then win 3 championships in a row, I think history judges him pretty well. I do think over all he's got to be judged based on the decision, even if it is to return to the Heat, its his decision. With respect to the broader point, let's imagine Oden's knees were much better then they were and anybody could imagine, and he is a some what dominant player (not a Shaq, but a legitimate starting NBA center) in the middle (he starts over Birdman when they want to start a true 5). With that sort of player in the middle, they are able to beat the Spurs. What does that really say about Lebron? He had nothing to do with Oden's knees or signing him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetMeSeeYourWarFace21 Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 I think it's funny that there is a 0% possibility that Washington even tries to look at either Lebron or Carmelo. Mannn, you and me both......Can we get some kind of report that we are at least slightly interest in one of the two? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont Taze Me Bro Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 (edited) Everyone on here knows I'm not a LeBron fan. He is arguably the best player in the NBA right now (save that debate for another day please) and quite possibly the greatest physically gifted athlete to ever play the game with his combination of size, speed and agility. With that said, I have wondered why it took this long for a group of players to bond together and say we all want to play for this team, make it happen. I thought the decision was a little much, but didn't it spark some type of donation for charity? Which if so, at least something good came about it. Now, all the old timers will say they didn't get together with their buddies to form a dream team to win championships because of the competitive nature and drive within themselves to beat the other person/team. Which I agree with. But, the league has changed so much since the greats have retired. That's just what the league has become. You have players getting coaches fired, or having some input on who is hired next (regardless of what the team says). You have players hopping all over the league hoping to land on a team to win a championship. You have star players piping up and begging owners/front offices to get them more talent, etc. I think because LeBron, Bosh and Wade made it so public and about themselves, is why it is frowned upon. It's one thing to play with all the guys on an Olympic team and say, I love those guys, it would be kinda cool if we all landed together on a team one day and could ball. And it's another thing to set up a meeting, advertise said meeting (i.e. letting the media know you're doing it), etc. Then, after you lose in the finals, you then state, all three of us will meet in a couple of weeks to determine our future. I don't think it tarnishes his legacy, putting up numbers, winning rings is what it is all about, end game. But I think it puts an asterisk/tiny blemish beside his name, because he had to assemble a super star team to get a shot at some championships. The fact other players haven't done that, says a lot about what they think/feel about it, imo. And I don't fault LeBron for setting up a player friendly contract where he can opt out, fault the Heat for allowing that in his contract. Edited June 26, 2014 by Dont Taze Me Bro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Everyone on here knows I'm not a LeBron fan. He is arguably the best player in the NBA right now (save that debate for another day please) and quite possibly the greatest physically gifted athlete to ever play the game with his combination of size, speed and agility. With that said, I have wondered why it took this long for a group of players to bond together and say we all want to play for this team, make it happen. I think it is largely driven by the amount of money they make as well as advances in medical care. They make so much off endorsements and contracts that things like long term contracts in terms of security aren't really relevant. Lebron can opt out of his contract because the security of those years in terms of the money he knows he'll make if he opts in or even gives up some money to sign with another team is largely irrelevant because he's already made so much money. And for players like Lebron, long term contracts in terms of security and the difference between what the Heat and other teams can pay him is not very meaningful. Either way, he'll essentially have enough money to do whatever he wants with the rest of his life unless he does some real bad investing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 What does that really say about Lebron? He had nothing to do with Oden's knees or signing him. As a Blazers fan, I find it painful to reflect on the knees of Oden and Roy and think about what might have been. (or just picking Durant, lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Who else in the league is scrambling to take a pay cut to form a super team while still in the prime of their careers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Everyone on here knows I'm not a LeBron fan. He is arguably the best player in the NBA right now (save that debate for another day please) and quite possibly the greatest physically gifted athlete to ever play the game with his combination of size, speed and agility. With that said, I have wondered why it took this long for a group of players to bond together and say we all want to play for this team, make it happen. I thought the decision was a little much, but didn't it spark some type of donation for charity? Which if so, at least something good came about it. Now, all the old timers will say they didn't get together with their buddies to form a dream team to win championships because of the competitive nature and drive within themselves to beat the other person/team. Which I agree with. But, the league has changed so much since the greats have retired. I think the old-timers are full of crap. Besides, it's really just Bird, Magic, and Jordan who say this. Let's break down Bird. He was drafted by a historically great franchise in a rare down period. He had the greatest sports executive of all time running his team. And he showed up right as that executive created a trade to bring two Hall of Fame big men to his team. He was so important to his team and the league that the league invented a salary cap rule that bears his name to this day. The league created a rule that allowed him to make more money for the team that drafted him than any other team. He got to play with Hall of Famers and make more money in Boston than anywhere else. Why would he leave? Let's break down Magic. He got drafted by a team with the greatest scorer of all team and other all stars on the roster. The team had the greatest owner in NBA history. The team won a title his first year and competed for the title every year he was in the league. Somehow - despite this - the team had the #1 overall draft pick two years after he arrived and drafted a player designed by God himself to play with him. Despite everything good surrounding him, Magic still invented the concept of "getting the Coach fired" when he forced Westphal out. Play with Hall of Famers....in Los Angeles....and have the ability to get the coach fired.....Why would he leave? Let's break down Jordan. Jordan pretty much invented the concept of being rich before playing a single game. I'm not sure he could have formed a friendship with another star player in order to create a super team. He had Pippen in place as an obvious stud and Phil Jackson as his coach by '89. That was also the only one of two times that he was really ever a free agent. He signed an 8 year deal then. In '96, he actually considered going to the Knicks but changed his mind. So....he never really even had the chance to leave. Except the time he quit to play baseball. Which was really weird. Can you imagine what would happen if Lebron quit to play arena football or something? Skip Bayless would demand an execution for treason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont Taze Me Bro Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 I think the old-timers are full of crap. Besides, it's really just Bird, Magic, and Jordan who say this. Let's break down Bird. He was drafted by a historically great franchise in a rare down period. He had the greatest sports executive of all time running his team. And he showed up right as that executive created a trade to bring two Hall of Fame big men to his team. He was so important to his team and the league that the league invented a salary cap rule that bears his name to this day. The league created a rule that allowed him to make more money for the team that drafted him than any other team. He got to play with Hall of Famers and make more money in Boston than anywhere else. Why would he leave? Let's break down Magic. He got drafted by a team with the greatest scorer of all team and other all stars on the roster. The team had the greatest owner in NBA history. The team won a title his first year and competed for the title every year he was in the league. Somehow - despite this - the team had the #1 overall draft pick two years after he arrived and drafted a player designed by God himself to play with him. Despite everything good surrounding him, Magic still invented the concept of "getting the Coach fired" when he forced Westphal out. Play with Hall of Famers....in Los Angeles....and have the ability to get the coach fired.....Why would he leave? Let's break down Jordan. Jordan pretty much invented the concept of being rich before playing a single game. I'm not sure he could have formed a friendship with another star player in order to create a super team. He had Pippen in place as an obvious stud and Phil Jackson as his coach by '89. That was also the only one of two times that he was really ever a free agent. He signed an 8 year deal then. In '96, he actually considered going to the Knicks but changed his mind. So....he never really even had the chance to leave. Except the time he quit to play baseball. Which was really weird. Can you imagine what would happen if Lebron quit to play arena football or something? Skip Bayless would demand an execution for treason. Excellent points LKB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixcuincle Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 The Milwaukee Bucks want Parker to fit a piece of that puzzle. No word on whether they will trade 2 first round picks and a second rounder to the Cavs for the rights to Parker. Silver is better than Stern. Stern just went out there and got booed heavily, and for good reason. "I can't hear you." Shut up and run the draft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont Taze Me Bro Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Cavs must be looking at trades right now, no need to burn the clock when you have had all this time to know your guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixcuincle Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Cavs will keep the pick. Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA · 1m The Milwaukee Bucks will select Jabari Parker with the No. 2 pick in the NBA Draft, league source tells Yahoo Sports. ReplyReplied to 0 times RetweetRetweeted 1,020 times1K FavoriteFavorited 149 times149 More Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA · 2m The Cleveland Cavaliers will select Andrew Wiggins with the No. 1 pick in the NBA Draft, league sources tell Yahoo Sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont Taze Me Bro Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 What a ****ing dumb looking suit. Hurry and sign so you can buy a new one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ixcuincle Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 At least he doesn't have those hipster glasses anymore Irving Wiggins SF Bennett C Not bad 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont Taze Me Bro Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 (edited) At least he doesn't have those hipster glasses anymore Irving Wiggins SF Bennett C Not bad Not at all. Seems like a good kid though, eh. Edited June 26, 2014 by Dont Taze Me Bro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 At least he doesn't have those hipster glasses anymore Irving Wiggins SF Bennett C Not bad They have Loul Deng and Spencer Hawes i still believe unless they are FAs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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