The Official ES All Things Redskins Name Change Thread (Reboot Edition---Read New OP)

[BleedBNG]

http://mmqb.si.com/2014/04/03/washington-nfl-team-name-debate/

 

Like a commenter said about the article... just more preaching to the choir. I remember in the fall where Skip Bayless was SOOOO hurt by the name, and that he felt it was SOOOO offensive he just couldn't say "Redskins" on those name change First Take shows. Now he says "Redskins" all the time. Nothing but an act. The same with these articles.

[RonYoungEra]

Like a commenter said about the article... just more preaching to the choir. I remember in the fall where Skip Bayless was SOOOO hurt by the name, and that he felt it was SOOOO offensive he just couldn't say "Redskins" on those name change First Take shows. Now he says "Redskins" all the time. Nothing but an act. The same with these articles.

 

Are you a white guy, by chance?

[Larry]

Where are you getting your 9% figure from?  Snyder's report that he posted to the team website?

From the nationwide survey, conducted by the Annenberg Public Policy Center, of the University of Pennsylvania.

Which, so far, represents the only person who has actually asked actual Native Americans how they actually feel about it.

(And, as you would have known, if you'd read maybe a page or two of this thread.)

 

But, since you don't, here's a link to one of their press releases concerning the survey. 

 

 

[RonYoungEra]

From the nationwide survey, conducted by the Annenberg Public Policy Center, of the University of Pennsylvania.

Which, so far, represents the only person who has actually asked actual Native Americans how they actually feel about it.

(And, as you would have known, if you'd read maybe a page or two of this thread.)

 

But, since you don't, here's a link to one of their press releases concerning the survey. 

 

Yes, I'm familiar w/the same poll.  Wanted to ensure that we're on the same page before I replied.  And no, I have not read all 75 pages of this thread.  I don't need to in order to form my own opinion.

 

But the poll you're referencing, yes, the one that's 10 years old and sampled a whopping 768 of people via telephone that identified themselves as Native Americans.  So, nearly 70 people out of 768 were offended.  To answer your question, yes, that's enough for me to take a 2nd thought as to what our beloved team's name means to others and how it affects them.  Yes, that 9% has affected me. 

 

To be honest, it's gotten to the point of, when I say which team I cheer for, I now have to wonder if they'll be offended by my answer.  I don't like that feeling.  Yes, a dear friend of mine is Native American and she's offended by the name.  So, I know it does affect people that I know personally and to know that my beloved team has that effect on others sucks, quite frankly. 

 

I'm ready for the team name to evolve to something that won't offend and/or disparage others.  I cheer for the team, not the name.  Care to join me?

[Larry]

Yes, I'm familiar w/the same poll.  The one that's 10 years old and sampled a whopping 768 of people via telephone that identified themselves as Native Americans.

And has an error rate of plus or minus 2 percent.

And is (as I've already pointed out) the only attempt to ask actual natives how they actually feel about it.

 

To answer your question, yes, that's enough for me to take a 2nd thought as to what our beloved team's name means to others and how it affects them.

 

 

 

Now that, IMO, is a far more significant (and honest) point that trying to attack the poll. 

 

If 9% of natives, and one who you personally know, is enough for you, then well, that's your opinion. 

 

(Although, I do seem to recall, a few posts back, somebody pontificating about how it was wrong for white folks to tell others what they should be offended by.  )

[BleedBNG]

Are you a white guy, by chance?

 

Yes, but please don't call me a 'whiteskin' or I'll feel very offended and run off into a corner and cry, boo hoo.

[RonYoungEra]

And has an error rate of plus or minus 2 percent.

And is (as I've already pointed out) the only attempt to ask actual natives how they actually feel about it.

 

 

 

Now that, IMO, is a far more significant (and honest) point that trying to attack the poll. 

 

If 9% of natives, and one who you personally know, is enough for you, then well, that's your opinion. 

 

(Although, I do seem to recall, a few posts back, somebody pontificating about how it was wrong for white folks to tell others what they should be offended by.  )

 

Thanks for respecting my opinion, Lar!  And that's what it all boils down to - opinions.  Just sharing mine.  I think the strongest indicator for me personally was that the name bothers people I know and I am now aware that I have to be conscious of if I'm offending someone by simply stating the name of the football team that I love.  Those reasons enough have swayed me to the side of being ready for a name change.

 

And sure, that may be the only formal poll, to date, but I don't need a poll to know that there are people out there who are offended by the team name, regardless of how many.  Honest question:  what percent would be needed for you to be ready for a name change?  A majority?  90%?  100%?  Does needing to reach a certain percent of people who are offended need to happen before a change can happen?  Why not be proactive and just make the change now?  It's silly that in this day and age something as simple as the name of a football team can't be changed.  The history of the team (Super Bowls, players, coaches, and yes, the name) will always be there, in the past.  It doesn't mean that it has to be there for years to come. 

Yes, but please don't call me a 'whiteskin' or I'll feel very offended and run off into a corner and cry, boo hoo.

 

If you're trying to be funny, I guess I missed the punchline.  If you're trying to be ignorant, demeaning, and entitled, well, mission accomplished!

[BleedBNG]

If you're trying to be funny, I guess I missed the punchline.  If you're trying to be ignorant, demeaning, and entitled, well, mission accomplished!

 

Ooops, I'm sorry... I forgot to hit the sensitivity button on my computer.

[RonYoungEra]

Here's another good read for those who dare:  http://grantland.com/features/washington-redskins-dan-snyder/

[RonYoungEra]

A good read about how Lone Star Dietz may not have been a Native American after all:  http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/the-legend-of-lone-star-dietz-redskins-namesake-coach--and-possible-imposter/2013/11/06/a1358a76-466b-11e3-bf0c-cebf37c6f484_story.html

[Larry]

Yes, we get it. Lots of reporters say lots if nasty things in their opinion pieces.

And the 9% of Natives who are offended, are more important than the 90% who are not.

[GhostofSparta]

And the 9% of Natives who are offended, are more important than the 90% who are not.

And don't forget all those (white) sports writers and politicians whose opinion matters more than either group.

[grego]

Yes, I'm familiar w/the same poll.  Wanted to ensure that we're on the same page before I replied.  And no, I have not read all 75 pages of this thread.  I don't need to in order to form my own opinion.

 

But the poll you're referencing, yes, the one that's 10 years old and sampled a whopping 768 of people via telephone that identified themselves as Native Americans.  So, nearly 70 people out of 768 were offended.  To answer your question, yes, that's enough for me to take a 2nd thought as to what our beloved team's name means to others and how it affects them.  Yes, that 9% has affected me. 

 

To be honest, it's gotten to the point of, when I say which team I cheer for, I now have to wonder if they'll be offended by my answer.  I don't like that feeling.  Yes, a dear friend of mine is Native American and she's offended by the name.  So, I know it does affect people that I know personally and to know that my beloved team has that effect on others sucks, quite frankly. 

 

I'm ready for the team name to evolve to something that won't offend and/or disparage others.  I cheer for the team, not the name.  Care to join me?

 

 

heres what i think.

 

first- the fact that the poll is ten years old means absolutely nothing to me. i think that excuse is absurd.

 

but i understand that when you know someone who is personally involved in a hot topic, it does tend to sway your opinion, no doubt. but, has your friend expressed exactly why she is offended? if shes offended cuz she thinks the origin of the name refers to scalps, then she needs to open her mind, because shes factually incorrect.

 

if shes offended cuz she doesnt like native americans as 'mascots' for sports team? fair enough, but remember, the seminoles would have a problem with that (like, apparently, 90% of native americans might with 'redskin'.) you think 9% should dictate to the other 91%, but thats not practically feasible. why is 9% your number? if not 9%, what is your number?

 

third, if youre taking issue with the number polled (and the fact that it is, apparently, outdated- as if the redskins just came to be as a professional football franchise-) here an idea (as larry has said)- run your own. and dont say the money isnt there. ray halbritter has some cash, from what i understand. 

 

finally, tell that to the red mesa redskins. dont know who they are? google it. then tell them to change their name. 

[Kosher Ham]

I was wearing a Redskins shirt the other day and buddy of mine jokingly stated..."you know people might call you a racist for wearing that".

 

My response was simple. I have never heard anyone in all my years say... "You ****ing Redskin" , never.

 

However, I did get called the N-word about a month ago. Crazy part about that, there is no way the woman that said it should have thought I was a n-word. I saved her from a beat down. Unreal.

[elkabong82]

North Dakota University Fighting Sioux. 

 

NCAA deemed the name offensive without first consulting the local NA tribes. Instead they left it to the state to consult them and have them hold votes. Then, when the school didn't change, NCAA basically bullied them with a bunch of sanctions so that voters (mostly white) agreed to a name change.

 

But a vote of approval from the two local tribes would have saved the name. So what happened? Well 1 tribe voted to keep the name and led the movement to keep the name as well. The other tribe never held a vote. Why? One of the council members, just 1, was opposed to the name and refused to consent to his tribe holding a vote. 

 

So the NCAA basically told NAs what was offensive to them and left it up to them to say otherwise (great logic), and 1 person held things up and created a change 90+% originally did not want. Now the team just goes by UND and most NAs who had a connection because of the team name have lost it because an entity told them it was offensive to them. That's messed up.

 

I see too many similarities with Redskins. I've seen many comments from NAs saying that they identify with the team because of the name and logo, and all evidence shows the majority are not offended. A small amount shouldn't be able to take that away from them by the charge of a misguided PC crusade that cares more about its agenda than listening to ALL NAs, as was the case with UND.

[AsburySkinsFan]

After reading that article, and previously being very indifferent about the entire deal (mostly because I'm a white guy in America and it doesn't affect me personally), I'm honestly ready for a name change.  It'll be odd and an adjustment period for sure (all I've known and the only team I've loved for the past 32 years, since I was 4).  But enough people are upset because of the name, Marshall did not choose the name to honor anyone, and as a white guy in America, I don't feel like I have the right to tell others how to be offended and what to be offended by.

This sounds more like an opinion from white guilt than anything else. "I'm white and priviledged therefore my opinion doesn't count and I must defer to someone not white."

[Larry]

This sounds more like an opinion from white guilt than anything else. "I'm white and priviledged therefore my opinion doesn't count and I must defer to someone not white."

"But only if the someone not white says I'm bad."

[RFKFedEx]

This sounds more like an opinion from white guilt than anything else. "I'm white and priviledged therefore my opinion doesn't count and I must defer to someone not white."

 

Or it could just be the opinion of someone whose done some research, talked with actual natives on the subject, sees the future and understands the past.  

[Larry]

Or it could just be the opinion of someone whose done some research, talked with actual natives on the subject, sees the future and understands the past.

And who, after he "did some research", was not even aware that someone actually HAD "talked with actual natives".

But he sure had found several opinion pieces that said a lot of nasty things.

[RFKFedEx]

And who, after he "did some research", was not even aware that someone actually HAD "talked with actual natives".

But he sure had found several opinion pieces that said a lot of nasty things.

I know, I know, the Annenberg poll is the Holy Grail of Native approval for everything Redskin. And to better that, Snyder was recently photographed in Redskins gear while surrounded by actual Redskins who were honored by what we do. Clearly the change supporters are misinformed.

 

I challenge you to find some opinion pieces from mainstream journalists who have nice things to say about what we do. 

[AsburySkinsFan]

Or it could just be the opinion of someone whose done some research, talked with actual natives on the subject, sees the future and understands the past.  

But that's not what he stated in his post, he kept referencing the fact that he is white and how that fact meant that his opinion was somehow less than legitimate in relation to others. As if by being white he was disqualified from having a legitimate (not to mention correct) opinion on the subject. That IS white guilt.

I know, I know, the Annenberg poll is the Holy Grail of Native approval for everything Redskin.

To date it is the ONLY publicly released polling done that specifically asks Native Americans about how they feel regarding the name....let me reiterate that, it is the ONLY poll conducted by ANYONE (including those Native Americans who claim that the name is racist) that specifically asks THE question directly to the people who are the subject of this entire issue.

 

BTW, this is painted on the gym wall of Red Mesa High School in Arizona "Yeego" in Navajo means "Racist"....oh no wait it means "Try harder". The other side of the gym has "Redskins Pride" in equally large lettering. I guess we know the tribe that won't be asked about the offensiveness of the name Redskins in the upcoming opinion poll by the white guilters and the "I speak for everyone even though no one elected me" crowds.

 

Why do you think it is that the Native Americans who claim that this name is offensive to Native Americans haven't released their own polling information?

[Larry]

I know, I know, the Annenberg poll is the Holy Grail of Native approval for everything Redskin. And to better that, Snyder was recently photographed in Redskins gear while surrounded by actual Redskins who were honored by what we do. Clearly the change supporters are misinformed.

I challenge you to find some opinion pieces from mainstream journalists who have nice things to say about what we do.

Funny, I don't recall anybody claiming to possess the Holy Grail.

Closest I've seen are people pointing out, CORRECTLY, that it is the ONLY actual data which exists.

If, however, you prefer to base your position on an unscientific sampling of "opinion pieces from mainstream journalists", if you consider that "poll" to be more important than the feelings of actual natives, then I guess I can see how you arrived at your position.

Me, I prefer to give weight to the opinions of actual natives.

[skinsmarydu]

Why do you think it is that the Native Americans who claim that this name is offensive to Native Americans haven't released their own polling information?

Thread winner, imo.

[AsburySkinsFan]

Getting a tour of this topic from the opinionators and bloviators in the media is like getting a tour of Bagdhad in 2003 by Bagdhad Bob.

[RFKFedEx]

But that's not what he stated in his post, he kept referencing the fact that he is white and how that fact meant that his opinion was somehow less than legitimate in relation to others. That IS white guilt.

 

 

BTW, this is painted on the gym wall of Red Mesa High School in Arizona "Yeego" in Navajo means "Racist"....oh no wait it means "Try harder". The other side of the gym has "Redskins Pride" in equally large lettering. I guess we know the tribe that won't be asked about the offensiveness of the name Redskins in the upcoming opinion poll by the white guilters and the "I speak for everyone even though no one elected me" crowds.

 

 

Why do you think it is that the Native Americans who claim that this name is offensive to Native Americans haven't released their own polling information?

Conversely, if he approved of the name bc a majority of whites polled feel the same way, than that would be white pride. 

 

The Red Mesa Redskins to the Washington Redskins = Arsenio Hall to Jimmy Fallon. Not everyone can do and say the same things under the same context. 

 

Perhaps the Natives who claim offense don't need a new public upon poll to justify their beliefs. Those Natives beliefs might be based on real life experience, other than sports fandom.