ARLNow: Cost of New Bus Stop: $1 Million

[HeluCopter29]

http://www.arlnow.com/2013/03/18/cost-of-new-bus-stop-1-million/

The Walter Reed stop features shelter for some 15 passengers, lighting, an electronic display that shows when the next buses are coming, and a number of unbranded newspaper boxes. It opened last week after nearly a year and a half of on-again, off-again construction activity.

Those in Arlington (or if you leave nearby) will probably find this the most interesting.

200K from Arlington and 800K from the VDOT (I guess we can call it payback for the "road for no one"). I'm interested in what people have to say about this. It's supposed to function as the prototype for 24 stops of it's kind based around the new trolly on Columbia Pike. The 200K from Arlington seems like almost disposable income and not a waste, but could the 800K from the VDOT be put to better use around the state?

[Burgold]

Seems a bit crazy to me, but the Silver Spring debacle is worse.

Their new Metro stop is already over 2 years late and the cost overruns are more than 4 times the original estimates. They were expecting the sucker to cost 30 million which is not cheap by any means and they are now sitting at 120 million only to find that the foundation is too soft and structurally insecure and they may have to redo most of it.

[PiLfan]

Just a small example of why we so often find ourselves in the midst of one budget crisis after another, be it at the federal, state, local, or our own personal level. People think we have the money to pay for something like this:

When, in reality, all we can afford (or NEED) is this:

it starts to add up...

[renaissance]

Seems a bit crazy to me, but the Silver Spring debacle is worse.

Their new Metro stop is already over 2 years late and the cost overruns are more than 4 times the original estimates. They were expecting the sucker to cost 30 million which is not cheap by any means and they are now sitting at 120 million only to find that the foundation is too soft and structurally insecure and they may have to redo most of it.

The Silver Spring project is costing more than $7 just to fight the legal battle between the contractor and the County about who ****ed up. And the facility still isn't even close to being complete. What a joke.

[twa]

Quit griping,ya are stimulating the economy

think of all the jobs created/saved by having to redo it....like manna from heaven

[Tulane Skins Fan]

You know, I get what everyone is saying, but this is BS. Go be mad about something that actually does add up. I just feel like this kind of stuff is a distraction to the real problems.

[Dan T.]

Fiscal arguments aside, you gotta admit that is one cool looking bus stop.

[PiLfan]

Quit griping,ya are stimulating the economy

think of all the jobs created/saved by having to redo it....like manna from heaven

This is exactly like that old ECON 101 question: Can the govt stimulate the economy by creating jobs to dig a hole and then refill it? Only difference is there's a train station in the hole.

[PiLfan]

You know, I get what everyone is saying, but this is BS. Go be mad about something that actually does add up. I just feel like this kind of stuff is a distraction to the real problems.

A million here, a million there, multiply by several 100 similar and seemingly immaterial, small-time wacky scenarios that probably exist elsewhere, and soon you're talking real money. It's not a distraction if it's simply an example of the kind of thinking/spending that has gotten us into this mess in the first place. There's no real justification to spend a million dollars where a simple bench and a sign post had served perfectly well before.

[Bang]

the thing that always gets left out of the Government stimuli failure equation is the inevitable contractor who robs us blind.

Somehow in our society the thief is never faulted for stealing.

somehow we think "gov't spending" means they just magically make money disappear.

And yet pockets are full of it, and projects like the Silver spring metro stop happen while some fat **** contractor claims the reason he built something he knew would be unsatisfactory is someone else's fault.

Stolen money... or as it's often called, "government spending".

~Bang

[twa]

You know, I get what everyone is saying, but this is BS. Go be mad about something that actually does add up. I just feel like this kind of stuff is a distraction to the real problems.

What problems?

Unemployment just went down and the stock market is up.

sounds like a Tea Party convention in here

[Tulane Skins Fan]

A million here, a million there, multiply by several 100 similar and seemingly immaterial, small-time wacky scenarios that probably exist elsewhere, and soon you're talking real money. It's not a distraction if it's simply an example of the kind of thinking/spending that has gotten us into this mess in the first place. There's no real justification to spend a million dollars where a simple bench and a sign post had served perfectly well before.

Let me know when we have 100 bus stops like this... you know, let me know when we have two.

[PiLfan]

Let me know when we have 100 bus stops like this... you know, let me know when we have two.

Ok, if you think silly, wasteful govt spending is restricted to just bus stops...

It's an example of one of many. That's all. Doesn't take much research to find other, plentiful examples:

http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/30-stupid-things-the-governemnt-is-spending-money-on

[Botched]

I'd sit it.

[HeluCopter29]

Just a small example of why we so often find ourselves in the midst of one budget crisis after another, be it at the federal, state, local, or our own personal level. People think we have the money to pay for something like this:

http://www.toxel.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/busstop06.jpg

When, in reality, all we can afford (or NEED) is this:

http://mocoloco.com/art/archives/bus_stop_jun_05.jpg

it starts to add up...

We (and by we I mean Arlington county) absolutely can afford it.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

Ok, if you think silly, wasteful govt spending is restricted to just bus stops...

It's an example of one of many. That's all. Doesn't take much research to find other, plentiful examples:

http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/30-stupid-things-the-governemnt-is-spending-money-on

Its not even clear to me its wasteful. What does a "regular" bus stop cost to build these days? Including all contractors' fees, maintenance fees', etc.?

Second, is this bus stop going to last a lot longer than a ****ty one that you want? Will it save money in the long run?

No, this is whining, I'm sorry. Its a catchy little thing that you think is a cute example of an overall broader agenda. But, it would be better if people just talked about the overall problem that actually existed.

[Hubbs]

the thing that always gets left out of the Government stimuli failure equation is the inevitable contractor who robs us blind.

Somehow in our society the thief is never faulted for stealing.

somehow we think "gov't spending" means they just magically make money disappear.

And yet pockets are full of it, and projects like the Silver spring metro stop happen while some fat **** contractor claims the reason he built something he knew would be unsatisfactory is someone else's fault.

Stolen money... or as it's often called, "government spending".

~Bang

Republicans: That's incredibly true! Except when it comes to defense contractors, or contractors that have anything to do with my district/state/favorite interests.

Democrats: What are you talking about? Obviously we need to spend a million dollars on a single bus stop because blah blah blah....

These are our choices! Aren't you excited?

Its not even clear to me its wasteful. What does a "regular" bus stop cost to build these days? Including all contractors' fees, maintenance fees', etc.?

Apparently Tulane really is excited.

Let me know when we have 100 bus stops like this... you know, let me know when we have two.

Second, is this bus stop going to last a lot longer than a ****ty one that you want? Will it save money in the long run?

No, this is whining, I'm sorry. Its a catchy little thing that you think is a cute example of an overall broader agenda. But, it would be better if people just talked about the overall problem that actually existed.

Have you heard of the Silver Line?

I'd sit it.

A++ would read again!

[HOF44]

If it was a cool stop like the one above maybe, but this is the actual stop.

[HeluCopter29]

A million here, a million there, multiply by several 100 similar and seemingly immaterial, small-time wacky scenarios that probably exist elsewhere, and soon you're talking real money. It's not a distraction if it's simply an example of the kind of thinking/spending that has gotten us into this mess in the first place. There's no real justification to spend a million dollars where a simple bench and a sign post had served perfectly well before.

You should read the article and not just the headline. It'll help you understand a little better why what you just said is wrong.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

Apparently Tulane really is excited.

Dont know what that is supposed to mean.

Have you heard of the Silver Line?

Much better argument against spending.

[ncr2h]

Its not even clear to me its wasteful. What does a "regular" bus stop cost to build these days? Including all contractors' fees, maintenance fees', etc.?

Second, is this bus stop going to last a lot longer than a ****ty one that you want? Will it save money in the long run?

No, this is whining, I'm sorry. Its a catchy little thing that you think is a cute example of an overall broader agenda. But, it would be better if people just talked about the overall problem that actually existed.

Here you go:

http://www.cyburbia.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6201

Summary:

Bus stop shelters (i.e. things that are better than what this bus stop is) cost anywhere from $2K to $15K. Assuming that the $1M stop in arlington lasts forever and the other options have to be replaced every year (lol), the arlington stop would finally pay itself off in 67 years (assuming no inflation and that we use the $15K price tag rather than the $2K one).

[Hubbs]

If it was a cool stop like the one above maybe, but this is the actual stop.

Oh, are they selling advertising on it? If this thing is supposed to pay for itself over time, I don't think there's reason to complain.

Dont know what that is supposed to mean.

It was supposed to be a playful swipe at your defense of the strange-looking thing that PiL posted, but if that wasn't the stop in question, the fact that you said that it "isn't clear to you" that spending a million bucks on a bus stop is wasteful is still worth noting all by itself. I've lived within a few hundred feet of a bus stop for years. You know what makes it a bus stop? A sign that causes the bus to stop there. I'm actually in favor of also making sure that every bus stop also has a covered area where people can wait without getting wet when it rains or snows, but as someone who already makes a decent amount of use of public transportation (and is planning on relying upon it almost exclusively within the next few months), I don't think it's all that possible to spend a million dollars on a bus stop without wasting a lot of money. (The exception to that statement being the possibility that much of the cost is due to the fact that the stop needed some sort of device needed for proper access for people with disabilities, of course. But wouldn't that sort of thing be on the buses themselves? I'm struggling to figure out how or why that would be part of a stop, rather than part of every bus.)

[zoony]

I'm not sure that the kind of people who ride buses would appreciate that.