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TheBlaze.com: Oregon Baker Faces State Investigation After Refusing to Make Same-Sex Couple’s Wedding Cake

Zguy28

By Zguy28
in The Tailgate

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Zguy28

Zguy28

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The law is fairly clear on this. He needs to eithor make cakes for all or none.

Sounds like he is ready to make them for none. Good for him for standing up for his belief that its an immoral practice and should not be celebrated.

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Dont Taze Me Bro

Dont Taze Me Bro

Posted
Posted

I dont know why people act this way, its stupid. But if the guy really feels that strongly against gay marriage, all he had to do was tell them they would make the cake, then lose the ticket/slip and play stupid. Burn it, eat it, shred it, whatever and just play dumb and act like you forgot. No way then anyone could prove in a court of law that didnt happen, then you're not at risk of getting sued and investigated. They call or come in to check on the cake, you tell them you dont have it and there is no slip/ticket and it was forgotten, then refund the money and tell them you can't work it in front of your other orders.

For the record, I'm not anti-gay or racist nor do I condone those actions. I was merely pointing out how stupid people are when it comes to their beliefs and how far they will go and what they will say to back-up said beliefs. My guess is had he handled the matter differntly he would not be facing investigation and potential legal issues and the company name would not be dragged through the mud as bad as it will be now.

Bottom line is, its going to be a he/said she/said battle and unless the conversation was recorded or the moron went out and told others about the incident or someone else witnessed the conversation, it will get tossed out.

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Predicto

Predicto

Posted
Posted
I dont know why people act this way, its stupid. But if the guy really feels that strongly against gay marriage, all he had to do was tell them they would make the cake, then lose the ticket/slip and play stupid. Burn it, eat it, shred it, whatever and just play dumb and act like you forgot. No way then anyone could prove in a court of law that didnt happen, then you're not at risk of getting sued and investigated. They call or come in to check on the cake, you tell them you dont have it and there is no slip/ticket and it was forgotten, then refund the money and tell them you can't work it in front of your other orders.

But then you lose the potential "Chick-Fil-A" publicity and boom in conservative customers. :)

---------- Post added February-4th-2013 at 01:43 PM ----------

we need some odds here. what you got?

This IS turning into a Vegas thread, isn't it? :silly:

I'll make a sig bet, if anyone is interested.

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twa

twa

Posted
Posted
The law is fairly clear on this. He needs to eithor make cakes for all or none.

There is the option of only offering one bride or groom figurine per cake....that might fly if it is a uniform policy

or of course offering them to everyone only as designed(no custom orders)

add

Don't taze me bro.....a willingness to lie and deceive would undermine whatever moral standing the baker was asserting

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Larry

Larry

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I dont know why people act this way, its stupid. But if the guy really feels that strongly against gay marriage, all he had to do was tell them they would make the cake, then lose the ticket/slip and play stupid.

What, and lose the opportunity to loudly announce how much better you think you are than the people you're discriminating against?

(Yes, I'm joking. At least partially.)

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twa

twa

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As others have said ... this may be people looking for a controversy ... on both sides.

If he only makes wedding cakes with a bride and groom on the top, is that illegal?

Is he required to make a Dallas Cowboys cake?

Under the law the business has the burden of proving doing so is not intended as discrimination against protected classes of people....Jerry ain't got them that status...yet

accepting custom orders would open them to justifying why the order is refused for SS couples

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Kilmer17

Kilmer17

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P- legal ?

I can understand how the courts can force him to sell them a cake, but can they force him into making the cake the way they want? IE, can he say, sure I'll make you the cake, but I'll only make it with a standard man and woman on the top?

EDIT, looks like Im asking a similar ?

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Predicto

Predicto

Posted
Posted
As others have said ... this may be people looking for a controversy ... on both sides.

If he only makes wedding cakes with a bride and groom on the top, is that illegal?

Is he required to make a Dallas Cowboys cake?

I'm pretty sure Cowboy fandom is not a protected class under the law.

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talk show host

talk show host

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Yep, probably. But there won't be any big penalty or anything. Just a public relations :pooh: storm.

If I were him, I would try to argue that I would sell them my regular goods, but I wouldn't make a specialty cake for a same sex marriage with two brides on the top, because that would cause me to affirmatively bake a "gay" cake rather than just baking in general. I have no idea if that angle has been tried before.

I did some googling and it looks like the baker and the customer are telling completely different stories about what happened and what was said back and forth. So expect to see a lot of comments on the web from people arguing from different facts.

---------- Post added February-4th-2013 at 11:25 AM ----------

Yeah, pretty much. And don't worry about his freedom in the big sense - not much is going to happen.

Your solution makes sense, an it's what a reasonable person would do in that situation if opposed to gay marriage.

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Predicto

Predicto

Posted
Posted
P- legal ?

I can understand how the courts can force him to sell them a cake, but can they force him into making the cake the way they want? IE, can he say, sure I'll make you the cake, but I'll only make it with a standard man and woman on the top?

EDIT, looks like Im asking a similar ?

Yeah, I don't know that one. Probably can't force him to make it the way you want (although I'm pretty sure that isn't what happened here - he just didn't want to sell them a wedding cake at all).

I guess we can always come up with some convoluted scenario to try to get closer to the line, but in the overwhelming majority of cases, antidiscrimination laws are easy to understand and apply. If you sell stuff, don't discriminate against customers based on any of the basic unchangeable criteria like race, sex, disability and (in some states) sexual orientation. You can still discriminate against lowlifes like Navy Seal snipers, Applebee's employees, Dallas Cowboy fans, and hobos (wait that last one was redundant).

---------- Post added February-4th-2013 at 03:07 PM ----------

Your solution makes sense, an it's what a reasonable person would do in that situation if opposed to gay marriage.

Reasonable persons? On MY internet?

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Kilmer17

Kilmer17

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Yeah, I don't know that one. Probably can't force him to make it the way you want (although I'm pretty sure that isn't what happened here - he just didn't want to sell them a wedding cake at all).

I guess we can always come up with some convoluted scenario to try to get closer to the line, but in the overwhelming majority of cases, antidiscrimination laws are easy to understand and apply. If you sell stuff, don't discriminate against customers based on any of the basic unchangeable criteria like race, sex, disability and (in some states) sexual orientation. You can still discriminate against lowlifes like Navy Seal snipers, Applebee's employees, Dallas Cowboy fans, and hobos (wait that last one was redundant).

---------- Post added February-4th-2013 at 03:07 PM ----------

Reasonable persons? On MY internet?

Thats what I figured. But I still contend the women went there because they knew in advance he would deny them, and he relished the chance to make a name for himself in the right wing looniverse.

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Predicto

Predicto

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Thats what I figured. But I still contend the women went there because they knew in advance he would deny them, and he relished the chance to make a name for himself in the right wing looniverse.

Apparently they went there because the bakery had made a nice cake for one of their mothers when she got remarried. He didn't advertise that he wouldn't bake a wedding cake for gays.

The guy was taking down their info and asked the name of the groom, then balked. He was surprised it was for a gay marriage, and they were surprised that he balked (and according to them, called them "an abomination unto the Lord."

Your facts may vary, depending on your news source :) but it doesn't sound like a set-up by either side.

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greenspandan

greenspandan

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I think that those companies would be pretty swiftly found out by the people and the market would force them to either change their stance in order to stay in business or flounder and die.

relying on the invisible hand of the free market to enforce ethical standards on businesses is an extraordinarily naive proposition. if it were effective, we wouldn't have any need for the FDA, workplace safety standards, anti-descrimination laws, safety or pollution standards for the auto industry, etc.

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Corcaigh

Corcaigh

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I'm pretty sure Cowboy fandom is not a protected class under the law.

Yes, but arguably, people who want to buy cakes with figurines of two women on the top isn't a protected class either.

Does he have to make a cake in the shape of a crucifix? A star & crescent moon?

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Predicto

Predicto

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Posted
Yes, but arguably, people who want to buy cakes with figurines of two women on the top isn't a protected class either.

Does he have to make a cake in the shape of a crucifix? A star & crescent moon?

He wouldn't make them any wedding cake, as far as I can tell. All this other stuff is just us speculating.

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LadySkinsFan

LadySkinsFan

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You all have to remember something, this sexual orientation discrimination thing works both ways.

Some hypothethicals:

1. If I, as a lesbian, have a lesbian oriented bakery business, do I have to make wedding cakes for straight couples as that is against my belief that heterosexuality is immoral?

2. If I refuse to rent an apartment to a straight couple, married or not, is that legal?

3. If I fire a straight employee just because they are straight, is that legal?

The quick answer to all of the above is Yes. In accordance with present Federal and some states' laws, I have to make wedding cakes for one and all. And it is currently legal to deny housing and to fire employees according to their sexual orientation because that class is not yet protected under law.

In this case, these people started the order process together and when the proprietor discovered that the cake was for a same sex wedding, he balked. Too late in the process to even say that he was booked up. But if he wants to lose business over this issue, he's free to do that too.

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