Shanahan Decision Not to Take Out RGIII

[pointyfootball]

There's no right or wrong answer. People blaming Shanahan for this are clueless. He got hurt. It's unfortunate. But the injury which took him out of the game, could just have easily happened in the first quarter. Funny, I bet no one was saying we should take RG3 out when we were up 14-0. And, to clue some folks in, he got hurt the play before he threw his 2nd TD pass. So he was basically hurt from 2:00 left in the first quarter, until he went out. And, another thing. We didn't relinquish the lead until 7:08 left in the game. Shanahan would have been criticized either way.

I think it was evident that he could not play at a playoff level after the half. IMO, he should have been sat down after halftime. If it were RG's left knee, ribs, ankle or ANY other body part, I could maybe have seen letting him stay in. But, with the history of that knee, MS put winning a playoff game over the franchise player's future, and he had plenty of opportunity to evaluate RG's knee/performance after the 1st quarter.

[TheGreek1973]

Agreed. If RGIII would've Won the game, everyone & their momma would talk about him being the best thing since the color tv. But since we didn't Win, tear up the program, tar-&-feather all the coaches, burn 'em in efffigy, THEN run 'em outta town. I suppose that's human nature. But what if RGIII had pulled a Jay Cutler & sat on the sidelines while his team competed (and lost) without him? Then what would Redskins Nation say?

The Man put the Team, Organization, City, & Fanbase on his back through sheer grit, and was determined to pull us all through. No, he was not successful this time around. But that heart of a Lion, that heart of a Champion is what will be my takeaway from the game. It's in him, and we are in very good hands. Hail.

You guys are in dreamland. the minute he re-injured that knee, just before he threw the 2nd TD pass should have been over for him. yea he threw the pass to Paulson but since that time he went something like 18 yards for the rest of the time he stayed in. I have made up my mind he knee was probably messed up right there and then with the final nail in the coffin coming with the bad snap. The kid has a huge heart no question about it.

Question right now is, who messed up and allowed him to play like this not in this game but in the Eagles game. Why is Dr. Andrews saying he was a nervous wreck when he cleared him to play starting with the Eagles game? This is a major story and if I were Synder I would want answers, especially if no one told me a thing about it and knew only what I heard in the media, namely its a Grade 1 sprain, 2-4 weeks for recovery. Which brings me to my other point, if that is the time of recovery, why was in in the Eagles game?

We probably lost RGIII for at least a year and damn it as a fan I want answers. I want to know why risk this kid when Cousins showed he is competitive? Why didn't we shut him down until if we made the playoffs? Don't give me the BS Cousins couldn't beat the damn Eagles when he destroyed a better team in Cleveland. At the very least RGIII should not have played that game.

[DButz65]

You guys are in dreamland. the minute he re-injured that knee, just before he threw the 2nd TD pass should have been over for him. yea he threw the pass to Paulson but since that time he went something like 18 yards for the rest of the time he stayed in. I have made up my mind he knee was probably messed up right there and then with the final nail in the coffin coming with the bad snap. The kid has a huge heart no question about it.

Question right now is, who messed up and allowed him to play like this not in this game but in the Eagles game. Why is Dr. Andrews saying he was a nervous wreck when he cleared him to play starting with the Eagles game? This is a major story and if I were Synder I would want answers, especially if no one told me a thing about it and knew only what I heard in the media, namely its a Grade 1 sprain, 2-4 weeks for recovery. Which brings me to my other point, if that is the time of recovery, why was in in the Eagles game?

We probably lost RGIII for at least a year and damn it as a fan I want answers. I want to know why risk this kid when Cousins showed he is competitive? Why didn't we shut him down until if we made the playoffs? Don't give me the BS we couldn't be the damn Eagles when he destroyed a better team in Cleveland. At the very least he should not have played that game.

I fully support this posting and feel the same way. I played ball until i was 28 (semi pro) and no player ever wants to come out of the game, even when injured, but coaches and training personnel/doctors are responsible for knowing when to take a player out, I mean we could all see he wasn't 100% after he re-aggravated the knee and had NO control over his throws, gee wonder why, it was starring everyone in the face.

The IF WE WON comments are just silly, don't hypotheticalize the situation, what happened happened and we cant change it

[KDawg]

End of discussion! Well said Bang.

No, it's not.

Why will no one answer my question. What is the quarterback's job in the NFL? What does he do to achieve that job?

[Oldfan]

...Funny, I bet no one was saying we should take RG3 out when we were up 14-0. ..

You'd bet wrong. My wife and I said it simultaneously after he came up limping. The fact that he threw his second TD pass on one leg didn't change our minds.

[KDawg]

Shanahan shouldn't be fired. Blaming him for the injury is a bit silly. Robert has free will and he knew the risks and he played. The trainers could have sat him and they didn't. Mike's not clean in the injury thing, but to put the blame on him is short sighted. He did, however, mismanage the whole thing.

[justice98]

Leave it to this franchise to turn an otherwise enjoyable season into a complete disaster.

[KDawg]

You'd bet wrong. My wife and I said it simultaneously after he came up limping. The fact that he threw his second TD pass on one leg didn't change our minds.

I said to take him out immediately after we went up 14-0 in the BGO chat. I have witnesses

[Oldfan]

I said to take him out immediately after we went up 14-0 in the BGO chat. I have witnesses

You will have to produce those witnesses. I have found you to be untrustworthy.:pfft:

[TheGreek1973]

You'd bet wrong. My wife and I said it simultaneously after he came up limping. The fact that he threw his second TD pass on one leg didn't change our minds.

Oldfan I am with you on this. Wife and i said the same thing. When he scrambled for 9 yards, dragging that right leg I went almost hysterical screaming GET HIM OUT.. To this second i can't believe a HC with the type of experience would risk the future of this team like this.

Shanahan shouldn't be fired. Blaming him for the injury is a bit silly. Robert has free will and he knew the risks and he played. The trainers could have sat him and they didn't. Mike's not clean in the injury thing, but to put the blame on him is short sighted. He did, however, mismanage the whole thing.

Say what? Free will? Sorry KD if you played any kind of organized sports, you should know there isn't free will on a player, the coach makes the ultimate decision. didn't know organized competitive sports is a democracy.

[S.T.real,lights,out]

No, it's not.

Why will no one answer my question. What is the quarterback's job in the NFL? What does he do to achieve that job?

IMO, his main job is to run the O. Which he clearly was unable to do.

---------- Post added January-8th-2013 at 08:12 AM ----------

You will have to produce those witnesses. I have found you to be untrustworthy.:pfft:

You will have to sift through about 800 posts to find it.

[KDawg]

Say what? Free will? Sorry KD if you played any kind of organized sports, you should know there isn't free will on a player, the coach makes the ultimate decision. didn't know organized competitive sports is a democracy.

First, don't question my sports acumen/coaching/playing because I disagree with something. It's cheap and a childish way to debate.

Second, I think he should have been taken out, but Griffin certainly has free will to say, "Coach, I think it's messed up. Give me a drive to talk to trainers and get it checked out." He didn't. Why? Because he's a tough SOB and wanted to be out there with his teammates. I don't care what media backlash there would have been (it shouldn't even get out that that's what happened, if it did. Shanahan, as the HC, should fall on the sword anyways. Everyone who would need to know the circumstances, would (Snyder).

IMO, his main job is to run the O. Which he clearly was unable to do.

Anyone else? This answer was pretty good

[KingGibbs]

Shanahan shouldn't be fired. Blaming him for the injury is a bit silly. Robert has free will and he knew the risks and he played. The trainers could have sat him and they didn't. Mike's not clean in the injury thing, but to put the blame on him is short sighted. He did, however, mismanage the whole thing.

Can't put all of the blame on Shanny, but placing a lot of blame on him isn't short sighted. He even question his own decision not to take him out.

My issue wasn't that III couldn't run, but the injury prevented him from being effective in all aspects of his game. His accuracy was non-existent and the 'hawks knew the read option was no longer an option and adjusted accordingly. The offense couldn't move the ball at all. What more does a HC need to make a move in a one and done game?

[KDawg]

Can't put all of the blame on Shanny, but placing a lot of blame on him isn't short sighted. He even question his own decision not to take him out.

Read what you said here, my older ES brother

You said placing "a lot of the blame"

Above, I said placing "the blame" on him. I agree that there is some blame to be planted on him, but more of it belongs on the football side of the issue.

My issue wasn't that III couldn't run, but the injury prevented him from being effective in all aspects of his game. His accuracy was non-existent and the 'hawks knew the read option was no longer an option and adjusted accordingly. The offense couldn't move the ball at all. What more does a HC need to make a move in a one and done game?

This is where I agree. Griff should have been pulled, because it was obvious that the injury, no matter how severe or unsevere it was, was effecting his ability to play the quarterback position.

[S.T.real,lights,out]

Can't put all of the blame on Shanny, but placing a lot of blame on him isn't short sighted. He even question his own decision not to take him out.

My issue wasn't that III couldn't run, but the injury prevented him from being effective in all aspects of his game. His accuracy was non-existent and the 'hawks knew the read option was no longer an option and adjusted accordingly. The offense couldn't move the ball at all. What more does a HC need to make a move in a one and done game?

This pretty much sums it up. IDK why Shanny felt like our best chance of winning was with RGIII at that point. I mean give him a few drives but by the 4th Q when our D was still keeping us in the game i would think Cousins gave us our best chance. It was very clear (to me atleast) RGIII was in a great deal of pain and yes he is a tough SOB but there has to be a point where the coach makes a tough call and plays the guy that gives us our best chance. I dont think anyone would think Cousins is better than a 100% or even 80% RGIII but he was clearly not that healthy.

[TheGreek1973]

First, don't question my sports acumen/coaching/playing because I disagree with something. It's cheap and a childish way to debate.

Second, I think he should have been taken out, but Griffin certainly has free will to say, "Coach, I think it's messed up. Give me a drive to talk to trainers and get it checked out." He didn't. Why? Because he's a tough SOB and wanted to be out there with his teammates. I don't care what media backlash there would have been (it shouldn't even get out that that's what happened, if it did. Shanahan, as the HC, should fall on the sword anyways. Everyone who would need to know the circumstances, would (Snyder).

Anyone else? This answer was pretty good

My point is pal there is no free will when it comes to competitive Team sports. you may not like being shutdown but you need to shut your mouth and respect the decision. If you think I brought that up to be childish you are dead wrong and I will leave it at that.

As for RGIII having the free will to say Coach is messed up, he does have that I agree as he also have the free will to flat out lie. We all know now which one he chose to do. What Mike S is going to do about it that is another story.

[KDawg]

My point is pal there is no free will when it comes to competitive Team sports.

Look, pal, there is plenty of free will in competitive team sports when it comes to your health. Griff chose to play. He said it in his presser. If you believe he said he could play because he HAD to in the eyes of Shanahan, I'd say you're mistaken, but obviously, that's just my opinion. He said he could play because he wanted to, despite his struggles. That's the kind of player he is.

you may not like being shutdown but you need to shut your mouth and respect the decision. If you think I brought that up to be childish you are dead wrong and I will leave it at that.

Okay, now I'm thoroughly confused. I've said in this thread, and you've quoted me several times, that Shanahan should have shut him down. At 14-0 no less. If that happens, he has to sit down. But Shanahan did not. At that point, Griffin could easily tell him that he needed time to figure out what was up with his knee. I don't think Shanahan would have argued that. If he did, he's putting his franchise quarterback on a podium with a microphone saying, "I told him I needed time to figure out what was up and he forced me to play".

I'm not sure what you're saying, here.

[Rocky52Mc]

My point is pal there is no free will when it comes to competitive Team sports. you may not like being shutdown but you need to shut your mouth and respect the decision. If you think I brought that up to be childish you are dead wrong and I will leave it at that.

As for RGIII having the free will to say Coach is messed up, he does have that I agree as he also have the free will to flat out lie. We all know now which one he chose to do. What Mike S is going to do about it that is another story.

Sorry to say brotha, the only time players and coaches speak to each other during the media is when you allow them to. They show up to work the same, cussin at each other, telling them stories about their mother that they never knew, when they're working on the field.. This is a mans sport, and the media is a joke in it. The media is an instigator, I can't and don't respect honestly ANYONE who gets paid to speak about this game unless it's Mike Mayock, Scott Hanson, Trent Dilfer, and Gus Johnson. These people get PAID in an attempt to screw things up. That's why they don't respect the media and give them the worst answers imaginable, because they don't give a ****.

HEY Coach, your 7 game winning streak ends, your QB tore his knee grabbing a low snap, you lost in the playoffs, he might be out long term, your field sucks, CAN YOU DESCRIBE YOUR FEELINGS TO US!?

Yea **** you media. Making money off someone else s misery. Want to know how to help the cause? Stop reading pointless damn articles that morons write. Support the guys that work hard and write up articles ON THIS SITE, or another fan site. But those guys with degrees in media and use it for **** like this? They can find another job easily, and I won't ever let some guy who ****es about hotel breakfast everyday of his life to dictate how I should feel about my QB or coach. The season is over, it was a great one, and it was a success long term. That should be it for us until Free Agency.

[skinsmarydu]

Kirk had proven that he could get points on the board. (Yes, he'd proven he can throw picks, too.)

With the game, the season, and RGIII's knee on the line, he should've been given the chance to help the team. I wouldn't be surprised if he wants to be traded, especially if he thinks the coaching staff had zero faith in him.

[TheGreek1973]

Okay, now I'm thoroughly confused. I've said in this thread, and you've quoted me several times, that Shanahan should have shut him down. At 14-0 no less. If that happens, he has to sit down. But Shanahan did not. At that point, Griffin could easily tell him that he needed time to figure out what was up with his knee. I don't think Shanahan would have argued that. If he did, he's putting his franchise quarterback on a podium with a microphone saying, "I told him I needed time to figure out what was up and he forced me to play".

I'm not sure what you're saying, here.

And I respect that. You and I agree on the entire situation. What I am pissed off about is the fact that RGIII lied to his coach, also probably to the trainners and doctors. We found out in the Ravens game he was trying to avoid contact with Dr. Andrew and went back in. That to me has got to stop. in order for a coach to make the right call he needs to have the right information and RGIII didn't give him that. I guess this is where you and I have a difference of opinion. You call it brave, etc I call it misleading your coach and putting yourself and your team in harms way.

[Oldfan]

My point is pal there is no free will when it comes to competitive Team sports. you may not like being shutdown but you need to shut your mouth and respect the decision. If you think I brought that up to be childish you are dead wrong and I will leave it at that.

As for RGIII having the free will to say Coach is messed up, he does have that I agree as he also have the free will to flat out lie. We all know now which one he chose to do. What Mike S is going to do about it that is another story.

I think I understand and agree with your point. It's possible that the term "free will" is confusing readers. I think "responsibility" is the term that will work better.

The decision was Mike's complete responsibility. He should have taken RG3 out and he didn't. It doesn't matter whether Robert liked the decision or not. Mike had a responsibility both to the player and to the team to shut him down.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I am lining up with KDawg here. I think the medical considerations need to be taken out of the player's and coach's hands entirely. Shanahan gets 100% of the blame from a football perspective (riding with a hobbled Griffin over a healthy Cousins). But the go/no-go decision from a long-term medical perspective should be on the medical staff. Period.

So, I don't know how you can "blame" anyone for a player getting hurt. Coaches or players cannot be expected to weigh the long-term impacts of playing hurt. A trainer or doctor needs to be on the sideline to distinguish between a hurt or injured player. There must be 10 guys per game who run on and off the field after getting dinged...how is a coach supposed to keep up with that to understand which guys are hurt and which ones are injured.

[KDawg]

And I respect that. You and I agree on the entire situation. What I am pissed off about is the fact that RGIII lied to his coach, also probably to the trainners and doctors. We found out in the Ravens game he was trying to avoid contact with Dr. Andrew and went back in. That to me has got to stop. in order for a coach to make the right call he needs to have the right information and RGIII didn't give him that. I guess this is where you and I have a difference of opinion. You call it brave, etc I call it misleading your coach and putting yourself and your team in harms way.

I don't think it's brave, necessarily.

I think it's stupid, but I think it's because he doesn't want to let his teammates down.

My overall point of view is that you can't expect a guy like Griffin, who is a competitor through and through, to pull himself out of the game. He chose not to tell Shanahan he was injured because he's a leader and a tough SOB. That doesn't make it right, but it makes him who he is. Shanahan, however, had every opportunity to yank him. People will claim, "ride the horse who got you there", "he earned the right to play hurt", "it's the playoffs and he gives us the best chance to win". And in general, those statements are on the money. But I respectfully disagree with those claims. We have some amazing posters (Bang being one of them) who I admire very much that disagree with me, and that's okay. But, RG3 wasn't in any position to win anything Sunday. Even the people that think he deserved the chance to stay in will very likely tell you that he wasn't the least bit effective. That he was beat up and clearly injured. It's at that point that the head coach, watching the same game we watched, needs to protect the franchise quarterback from himself.

Why? Because it's about more than pleasing Griffin. It's about more than media backlash. We drafted a backup for a reason. The great Joe Jackson Gibbs once said, "The most important position on the field is the quarterback. The second most important position on the field is the backup quarterback". Sure, the game has evolved, but I don't think that logic has wavered. Shanahan drafted Cousins as an insurance policy. Griffin is our franchise's savior. Make no mistake. No qualms. He is our leader and our future. But Cousins is here to be the security blanket that PROTECTS our future.

With Griffin unable to run or throw, the two qualities that all quarterbacks must possess (or at least be able to throw), he was completely ineffective from a football standpoint. That doesn't mean that he's not our best quarterback, even when he's semi healthy. He is. But when he's completely unhealthy, he's not. In fact, I'd argue that the point Griffin was at put him below Rex Grossman's effectiveness (but still better than Beck )

Cousins should have been brought in, and Griffin as the leader would have been horrendously disappointed. But knowing Griff, and having the opinion I have of him, I think after he calmed down, he would have rallied the team behind Kirk and gotten things going. I don't have a crystal ball. I can't tell anyone we would have beat Seattle if Cousins came in. Seattle is a very good football team. But I can tell you this without any kind of hesitation: We had a better chance with Cousins in the game than we did with a totally incapacitated Griffin.

Shanahan made the wrong football move. And that is my opinion. A fan on a message board with a little bit of high school coaching experience. Nothing significant on the big stage. But as the head coach, you are paid millions of dollars to make the difficult decision. And, again, in my opinion, he made the wrong one and it cost us our season.

The side effect there is that if he pulled him, Griffin wouldn't have been in position to do what he did. But that is truly a side effect. He would have protected the franchise by making a better football decision. Now, because he didn't want to play Cousins there, we will play at least a part of the season next year with Cousins as our starting quarterback. Which is actually okay. But not as good as the alternative of Griffin.

[ThomasRoane]

Look, pal, there is plenty of free will in competitive team sports when it comes to your health. Griff chose to play. He said it in his presser. If you believe he said he could play because he HAD to in the eyes of Shanahan, I'd say you're mistaken, but obviously, that's just my opinion. He said he could play because he wanted to, despite his struggles. That's the kind of player he is.

Robert has the same competitive will that players like Jordan, Bird, Magic had. MJ wouldn't come out of a game with over a 100 degree temperature. That's just the way Robert is wired. It's what makes him great and at the same time makes him susceptible to injury. He needs to realize how dangerous football can be and how valuable he is. Had he slid feet first vs the Ravens then Ngata may have struck him helmet to helmet. Ironically, a concussion would have been better than the knee. Wilson did a good job all year of getting down; that's something I hope is now burned in Robert's brain.

Shanahan should have had the doctors shut him down. Then he could protect his future relationship with RG III. For those thinking that he's the coach and Robert should shut up and listen then you haven't coached today's athlete. Even though Robert is better than most he has an ego too. Had Shanahan shut him down and Kirk gone on to blow it then there would've been a rift between him and his franchise QB. Many of you underestimate how badly RG III wants to win. AND! You know damn well he was sick and tired of people saying Wilson should be ROY. IMO, the doctors/trainers shoulda saved Robert from himself. If anyone is to blame it's them. That's their job. To tell a coach if a player can go or not. And they failed in this case.

[Oldfan]

I am lining up with KDawg here. I think the medical considerations need to be taken out of the player's and coach's hands entirely. Shanahan gets 100% of the blame from a football perspective (riding with a hobbled Griffin over a healthy Cousins). But the go/no-go decision from a long-term medical perspective should be on the medical staff. Period.

So, I don't know how you can "blame" anyone for a player getting hurt. Coaches or players cannot be expected to weigh the long-term impacts of playing hurt. A trainer or doctor needs to be on the sideline to distinguish between a hurt or injured player. There must be 10 guys per game who run on and off the field after getting dinged...how is a coach supposed to keep up with that to understand which guys are hurt and which ones are injured.

Teams don't hire doctors to tell them not to play injured players. If they want to continue getting paid, doctors will let the player play unless doing so would constitute gross negligence. It's a flawed system, but that's the one we have in place.

If RG3's health, and the long term benefit to the team, were of primary concern as they should have been, Robert should have been shut down until the knee was 100%. We knew, or should have known, that it wasn't 100% when it was decided that he should play with a brace.