RGIII vs Luck

[Monkfan63]

Luck is much better so far. But they are both young talented QB;s with great futures in front of them.

[HateNMyEyez]

thats 1 thing i will say, and that luck has had the easier schedule by far as well as weaker defenses.

[MadMonkey]

I think most people would say that Moss, Garcon, Hankerson, Robinson, Morgan etc are better than Hilton and Avery, and the rest of the Colts WRs. Again, I think Luck's been so good that he's made people think it's the other way around. And yeah, I agree that we've fallen in love with the gimmick offense a little too much. And defenses already appear to be on to it a little. Why we haven't thrown the ball more downfield, I'll never know. It can't just be that the Shanahans think we can't pass protect enough to pass more downfield, because Griffin takes a lot more of a pounding running the option plays. I have no idea what their thinking is there.

You're forgetting Reggie Wayne who is leading the league in 104yds per game which one could argue has more to do with the success Luck is having and is definitely better than all of the Redskins WR's combined minus Garcon, if Wayne didn't stay in Indy Lucks numbers would not be where they are now If Garcon hadn't been hurt the whole year RG3 would have had a reliable WR to throw to pus add to that Hankerson, Morgan, Robinson have all been maddeningly inconsistent which has a direct reflection on RG3's passing numbers.

[Warhead36]

Luck is better than RG3 right now. But that should surprise noone. Luck came into the NFL better prepared, and consensus was he was the best QB prospect since Manning.

That doesn't mean RG3 sucks. He's very good in his own right. His coaches are doing him a disservice right now treating him like he's Tim Tebow, but he's shown he's a baller who can single handedly win you games. If we had even a bad Defense(instead of on pace for historically bad)we'd probably be at least 5-4 right now.

[Bubble Screen]

You're forgetting Reggie Wayne who is leading the league in 104yds per game which one could argue has more to do with the success Luck is having and is definitely better than all of the Redskins WR's combined minus Garcon, if Wayne didn't stay in Indy Lucks numbers would not be where they are now If Garcon hadn't been hurt the whole year RG3 would have had a reliable WR to throw to pus add to that Hankerson, Morgan, Robinson have all been maddeningly inconsistent which has a direct reflection on RG3's passing numbers.

Nah, I didn't forget about Wayne. I mentioned him earlier. Wayne was in Indy last year, too. But he was almost a forgotten man with those two bums he had throwing him the ball. Luck arrives, and instantly Wayne is the Wayne from the Peyton years. Why not give Luck credit for that?

And again, I'm not taking anything away from RG3. Love the guy. I'm glad we have him. I just think Luck is having a remarkable year. Even slightly better than RG3. That doesn't make me, or anyone else, less of a fan for admitting that. RG3 could very well get back into the ROY hunt. But it's gonna take us winning several more games.

---------- Post added November-12th-2012 at 12:17 AM ----------

Luck is better than RG3 right now. But that should surprise noone. Luck came into the NFL better prepared, and consensus was he was the best QB prospect since Manning.

That doesn't mean RG3 sucks. He's very good in his own right. His coaches are doing him a disservice right now treating him like he's Tim Tebow, but he's shown he's a baller who can single handedly win you games. If we had even a bad Defense(instead of on pace for historically bad)we'd probably be at least 5-4 right now.

I agree with all this. Well said.

---------- Post added November-12th-2012 at 12:23 AM ----------

Luck has played FAR worse pass defenses the past few weeks, hence he has looked like the better player and has gotten more media love lately.

Not taking anything away from him, but RG3 is the better player. If the season ended today, Luck would be ROY.

However, the season does NOT end today and RG3 has some more games to right the ship and improve his play. I think he will come out on top.

You're forgetting that Luck inherited a 2-14 team and that pretty much every analyst out there were saying that RG3 had the better players around him to succeed. And they were right. And I know that some of RG3's main weapons were injured, but that's part of the game. The Colts have already won 3 times as many games as they won last year, and we're just past the halfway point of the season.

As much as I would love to see Robert win the ROY, he has little chance of doing so unless we win several more games.

[Enter Apotheosis]

I know I will probably get flamed for this but here goes anyway: I am a big RGIII fan but I have observed Luck play in several games this year also, especially the last game against Jacksonville.

I can tell right away that you haven't seen enough of Luck because...

1) He gets superb pass protection

4) They actually CATCH the ball

6) They (WRs) know how to separate from the defenders at the line of scrimmage

7) When he doesn't find open WRs (which is rare), he has the ability to use his big body to scramble for useful yards.

... are all dubious statements at best. I've looked at nearly every snap of Luck's. He's very good but there are holes in his game and there are areas where he needs to improve.

Fact of the matter is that Griffin looked much better to start the season and Luck has looked much better as of the last three weeks. There's not much of a clear separation between them ability-wise yet although there may be by the end of the season.

[Murphs56]

Griffin's top 2 targets are injured and quite possibly has the worst defense in the history of football. It really does make a difference on who you are throwing to. Guys like Hankerson and Morgan are AT BEST #3 Receivers on a decent team and Robinson is probably a practice squad guy. Look what Luck is throwing to. Wayne, Avery, Hilton. Those 3 guys are better than ANY Receiver the Skins have at this point and time. We don't have receivers that can separate, get open and catch, let alone go deep. For the rest of this season, Robert is going to have to lean on the running game and dink and dunk down the field. That's just where the team offensively is at.

[Bubble Screen]

^^ Wayne is definitely better than anyone RG3 has currently to throw it to. But Hilton and Avery? Come on, man. Give Luck some credit.

[Murphs56]

^^ Wayne is definitely better than anyone RG3 has currently to throw it to. But Hilton and Avery? Come on, man. Give Luck some credit.

Avery had a few productive years in St. Louis and Hilton has 4.3 speed. Hankerson and Morgan are at best possession receivers. Luck has been great, no question about it. But he's got his full offensive players around him. Garcon and Davis are the 2 best Griffin has. Think about it, Garcon did more in 1 quarter then any Skins receiver has pretty much done in a FULL game this year. That's really sad

[Bacon]

The dumbest posts I see online are those moronic "lolololol Redskins were stupid for taking RG3 cuz Luck is way better" statements. It's a fundamentally flawed line of thinking because

1. The Redskins never had an opportunity to take Luck

2. If they had the chance, RG3 still would have been a better fit for Shanny's offense

3. Both QBs are great

I truly believe both teams made the correct choice for where they were at.

[Rabsuz]

Tired of hearing about Luck, I am tired of hearing about RG3 vs Luck.

Can we please just stop?

[TheItalianStallion]

Nah, I didn't forget about Wayne. I mentioned him earlier. Wayne was in Indy last year, too. But he was almost a forgotten man with those two bums he had throwing him the ball. Luck arrives, and instantly Wayne is the Wayne from the Peyton years. Why not give Luck credit for that?

He does deserve credit, but you're talking about Wayne as if he vanished last year. He had nearly 1,000 yards. Garcon did too, but he hasn't been available to RG3 this year.

[ouvan59]

Nah, I didn't forget about Wayne. I mentioned him earlier. Wayne was in Indy last year, too. But he was almost a forgotten man with those two bums he had throwing him the ball. Luck arrives, and instantly Wayne is the Wayne from the Peyton years. Why not give Luck credit for that?

And again, I'm not taking anything away from RG3. Love the guy. I'm glad we have him. I just think Luck is having a remarkable year. Even slightly better than RG3. That doesn't make me, or anyone else, less of a fan for admitting that. RG3 could very well get back into the ROY hunt. But it's gonna take us winning several more games.

---------- Post added November-12th-2012 at 12:17 AM ----------

I agree with all this. Well said.

---------- Post added November-12th-2012 at 12:23 AM ----------

You're forgetting that Luck inherited a 2-14 team and that pretty much every analyst out there were saying that RG3 had the better players around him to succeed. And they were right. And I know that some of RG3's main weapons were injured, but that's part of the game. The Colts have already won 3 times as many games as they won last year, and we're just past the halfway point of the season.

As much as I would love to see Robert win the ROY, he has little chance of doing so unless we win several more games.

Sorry but the only thing better about Luck's year so far is their record. I don't care what their record was last year. This is this year. Just because Painter really, really, really sucked it doesn't make Luck better than he is. Don't get me wrong, Luck is really good but he doesn't touch RGIII. Luck has gotten a lot more help. His defense has given up 50 fewer points. Luck's teammates haven't had those "OMG" moments that we've had (Josh Morgan brain fart, Santana Moss last minute fumble, Madieu Williams watching Victor Cruz run right by him, Fred Davis illegal motion) that we've had in the last minute of games this year. And the Colts schedule (34-49) has been markedly easier than the Skins to date (43-38-1).

But every single qualitative stat screams that RGIII has been better because he has been. I've obviously seen all of RGIII's games and the majority of four of Luck's and both are really, really good players but RGIII is better. Luck right now would win the ROY but that's only because people are mentally lazy. "Look Indy is winning, Luck must be better." But RGIII has been more accurate, he's made fewer mistakes and he gives the Skins more options. The difference is Luck's teammates have made many fewer mistakes.

[Botched]

If they were to switch teams I think Griffin would match or surpass Luck's numbers and production.

I doubt Luck could match Griffin's here.

Pretty much.

Luck is awesome, but I'll take Griffin any day of the week.

[Geneva]

I know I will probably get flamed for this but here goes anyway: I am a big RGIII fan but I have observed Luck play in several games this year also, especially the last game against Jacksonville.

Luck has been playing very well this year and while his stats may not entirely suggest it, they have succeeded in tailoring the offense to effectively take advantage of his passing skills.

What this means is when he drops back to pass, several things happen:

1) He gets superb pass protection

2) He has a veteran, dependable wide receiver in Reggie Wayne

3) He has a couple of barn burning WRs in Avery and Hilton, both capable of running sub 4.3 40 yd sprints.

4) They actually CATCH the ball

5) CBs play wayyyy off them so they are able to get catches underneath quite easily and then use their own abilities to generate the YAC they are capable of

6) They (WRs) know how to separate from the defenders at the line of scrimmage

7) When he doesn't find open WRs (which is rare), he has the ability to use his big body to scramble for useful yards.

So, while he has this benefit in a young but very talented WR corps, his defense is not 1/2 as bad as the Skins defense.

If the season ended today and I had to give a ROY to a player, I would give it to Luck over RGIII or even Martin or Morris, simply because Luck's team has the superior winning record. Things may change by the end of the season but the Skins would have to make some changes or get lucky with healthy players coming back.

If Garcon can't play they should start with Moss and speedster Robinson. While I have not been terribly impressed with any receiver in particular, I believe Hankerson is either hiding an injury or he has regressed.

If and when Garcon is available, they should still start Moss alongside him. Morgan can play a capable backup role. Moss is 33 but so what. he still gets separation at the line and has been productive when not dropping balls. Reggie Wayne is also 33 and is a starting receiver but look at his incredible 2012 numbers!

Anyway, although RGIII has played almost flawlessly this season, many of his fellow teammates on both sides of the ball have not lived up to their pay salary. IMO, he is more talented than Luck and has better stats than Luck but Luck has the benefit of a better offensive scheme and more talented WRs at his disposal.

I wish we had the Colts line on each side of the ball. This was never ment to ba a SB year. The next two years will go toward finding protection for RG3 and some CB that can defend against the pass. Also we will be looking for a new DC..

[AsiaticSkinsFan]

My two cents as a Colts fan:

Luck and RG3 are two amazing talents and both have very bright futures ahead of them. I doubt any Colts fan would trade Luck for RG3 and I doubt any Skins fan would trade RG3 for Luck. I don't believe you could go wrong with either player. Each players stats show not only their talent, but how the team is using them. RG3s numbers show low volume, low risk, and high efficiency. Lucks show high volume, high risk, and lower efficiency. This may have been a result of where each team thought it was. The Colts had nothing to lose after the previous 2-14 season and gutting of the roster, coaching staff, and front office. The Skins were universally thought to have a better roster and were ready to compete for a playoff spot. I'm very curious if Shanny will change his approach with RG3 considering the Skins current playoff chances. I said you can't go wrong with either player, but I do believe you can go wrong with how you develop them. IMO, they started the season as 1 and 1A. While Luck struggled a little early, RG3 shined. My honest belief is that Luck will continue to progress more in the 2nd half of the season and will be the better NFL quarterback at that time. I don't intend that to be a knock on RG3, it's a knock on Shanny. RG3 needs to throw more and throw more vertically, he needs to be allowed to make more mistakes and learn from them. Look at Mannings rookie numbers - he threw a ridiculous amount of INTs, but he learned from them and got significantly better quickly. Like Manning and Luck, RG3 is mentally strong, extremely smart, and overly competitive. He needs to be let loose.

As to the talent surrounding each one - Wayne has been extremely valuable to Luck and the rookie WRs and TEs. In that sense I believe Luck has an advantage over RG3. Other than that, I think many are overestimating the Colts roster. The main contributors on offense consist of 6 rookies, 3 2nd year players, 5 mediocre (at best) journeyman, and Reggie Wayne. The offense returned 3 starters - one of which played his first game this week. The o-line is horrible, 4 of the 5 positions have been like a game of musical chairs due to injury, and the projected staring lineup has yet to play a game together. Lucks pocket awareness has been amazing and is the only thing keeping him alive. The defense changed schemes (4-3 to 3-4), has been plagued by injuries, lacks talent, and had only forced 3 turnovers in the first 8 games. This is every bit the 2-14 team it was last year if it wasn't for Luck. 5 of the wins have been by 6 points or less, 4 have been 4th qtr comebacks, and 3 have been last minute game winning drives (IIRC). I know that ESPNs QBR stat is not thought of very highly here, but when you look at the situations in conjunction with the stats, Luck has been unbelievable.

thanks for this

I actually agree with a lot of what you said, but I have an issue with two things.

First, you guys had a retired Kerry Collins, a sorry Curtis Painter, and a less sorry Dan Orlovsky as your QBs last year. This isnt to take away from Luck, but a lot of QBs would have been an improvement over that shower, lol.

Secondly, the coaching you guy have has been better too.

Outside of that, I dont have much of an issue with your post, I think its right on.

As for Skins fans, why do you all care to keep comparing the two? I been asking this even when RG3 had a hot start and Luck struggled. Why do you all care? We are happy with Robert, they are happy with Andrew. Let Luck have his peace, who cares.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

As for Skins fans, why do you all care to keep comparing the two? I been asking this even when RG3 had a hot start and Luck struggled. Why do you all care? We are happy with Robert, they are happy with Andrew. Let Luck have his peace, who cares.

It's not just our fans. Everywhere it's either "Luck is a beast....so RGIII must suck" or it's "RGIII is once in a lifetime and Luck sucks"

I'll never understand why one has to discredit one of them to pump up their guy....makes no sense

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

RGIII was the better prospect, and he is the better player at this point at time, for reasons that have already been stated in this thread. Luck has gotten a LOT more help from his defense and his team hasn't had horrendous breakdowns that have swung games (Bengals, Rams, Giants are the games that stand out)

Meanwhile, fully healthy, we beat New Orleans, and that win is starting look VERY good again, and losing to the Rams is turning out to have not been the disaster that everyone thought it was. I know moral victories don't really mean much, and obviously Haslett sucks as a coach, but RGIII has done a lot with not much to work with.

Granted, I think Kyle Shanahan is better than Bruce Arians as an OC, we've gotten more from our RB, and a lot of why RGIII has better stats is because of the scheme. Even so, he's playing well in spite of a lot of headwinds, headwinds I'm not really sure Luck could survive.

Don't get me wrong, Luck is a very good prospect. But RGIII will be the best player on the planet in time.

[Laxpunk2006]

They're both exactly what we thought they were, superstar QB's in the making. However watching that last Jacksonville game was driving me nuts. He threw two interceptions, one of which was called back for roughing the passer, fumbled, and had another throw (the deep one to Avery in the middle of the field) that very easily should have been intercepted by Ross inexplicably turned around and jumped a few yards too early. For whatever reason Mayock, who I usually enjoy, was heaping praise on him and ignoring his obvious mistakes.

He's having a great season and winning games for that team but I thought he looked like a rookie that game.

[Jericho]

Let me preface this by saying that Luck is a great young player and his talents are obvious. There's a reason he not only went #1 overall, but is considered the best QB prospect in some time (if not ever). However, all that being said, unless the Redskins win some more game, its a virtually Luck he will be voted Rookie of the Year over Griffin despite possibly (and there's still a ton of games to be played) have a worse season. Here are a list of reasons the Colts may end up with a better record than the Redskins.

(1) The Colts QBs really sucked last year. This is a QB league, plain and simple. And as bad/mediocre of a QB tandem Grossman/Beck (most of the playing time went to Grossman) was, I don't think anything compares to how awful the Colts' QB situation was last year. The Painter/Orlovsky combo was just awful (Painter's not even in the league anymore). Neither are even on Grossman's level. Those two made the team seem even worse than the squad really was. From 10-6 with Manning to 2-14 without him, it shows what a good QB can do. Just look at how Reggie Wayne looks relevant again. The drop from Griffin to Grossman is not as steep as Luck to Painter. More gain at the QB position means more wins overall for the Colts.

(2) I'm going to steal a Bill Simmons creation here, but there's the WARM ("Wins Above Raheem Morris") factor. The idea stems from last season where Jim Harbaugh did so well with San Francisco. And while Harbaugh is a good coach, I think the general idea is that Mike Singletary was a terrible head coach. Just by getting rid of him, the team improved. Similarly, Tampa quit on Raheem Morris last year and just by replacing him, the squad should be better. Even if its the same guys. I wonder if the media gives Jim Caldwell too much credit as a coach. He seemed pretty awful, even if he once reached a Super Bowl (so did Barry Switzer). I do think just getting rid of Caldwell helped.

(3) The AFC stinks. The Colts play in a division with the complete mess that is the Titans (that team seemed to just give up against the Bears) and the awful Jaguars. They have yet to play the Texans, the only decent team in the division. The schedule is littered with terrible teams. That can add 1-2 wins right there. If the Colts finish 9-7 and the Redskins end up 7-9, are the teams really that different given their schedules?

Look - Griffin needs to play well and the Redskins need to win some games. But the differences between the two players to date is minimal and largely due to outside factors.

[pjfootballer]

My two cents as a Colts fan:

RG3 needs to throw more and throw more vertically, he needs to be allowed to make more mistakes and learn from them. Look at Mannings rookie numbers - he threw a ridiculous amount of INTs, but he learned from them and got significantly better quickly. Like Manning and Luck, RG3 is mentally strong, extremely smart, and overly competitive. He needs to be let loose.

Preaching to the chior. I've been saying this every week for 10 weeks. They are holding him back. Let him throw, let him make mistakes. He learns very quickly from them. Stop treating him like a baby. I agree and welcome to the board.

[Warhead36]

Preaching to the chior. I've been saying this every week for 10 weeks. They are holding him back. Let him throw, let him make mistakes. He learns very quickly from them. Stop treating him like a baby. I agree and welcome to the board.

The thing is, the few times he has thrown downfield, he's been on point. He's delivered strikes and has generally looked comfortable.

It's driving me crazy that we're basically treating RG3 like he's Tim ****ing Tebow.

[Bubble Screen]

It's not just our fans. Everywhere it's either "Luck is a beast....so RGIII must suck" or it's "RGIII is once in a lifetime and Luck sucks"

I'll never understand why one has to discredit one of them to pump up their guy....makes no sense

Couldn't have said it better myself, And with that, I think I'll just bow out of this thread.

[skinfan2k]

The thing is, the few times he has thrown downfield, he's been on point. He's delivered strikes and has generally looked comfortable.

It's driving me crazy that we're basically treating RG3 like he's Tim ****ing Tebow.

seriously, its like he doesn't have an arm. This read-option and pistol offense is not going to be here for too long. When we are trailing that offense is pointless.

[TheDane]

Luck is amazing now on the field, and by all accounts great off the field. Griffin is great now on the field, and by all accounts amazing off the field. I'd be happy with either but Griffin is undoubtedly a better choice for the District.

As for who I'd rather have, can I say Pagano and Arians, is that an option?