RGIII vs Luck

[The Trashman]

I know I will probably get flamed for this but here goes anyway: I am a big RGIII fan but I have observed Luck play in several games this year also, especially the last game against Jacksonville.

Luck has been playing very well this year and while his stats may not entirely suggest it, they have succeeded in tailoring the offense to effectively take advantage of his passing skills.

What this means is when he drops back to pass, several things happen:

1) He gets superb pass protection

2) He has a veteran, dependable wide receiver in Reggie Wayne

3) He has a couple of barn burning WRs in Avery and Hilton, both capable of running sub 4.3 40 yd sprints.

4) They actually CATCH the ball

5) CBs play wayyyy off them so they are able to get catches underneath quite easily and then use their own abilities to generate the YAC they are capable of

6) They (WRs) know how to separate from the defenders at the line of scrimmage

7) When he doesn't find open WRs (which is rare), he has the ability to use his big body to scramble for useful yards.

So, while he has this benefit in a young but very talented WR corps, his defense is not 1/2 as bad as the Skins defense.

If the season ended today and I had to give a ROY to a player, I would give it to Luck over RGIII or even Martin or Morris, simply because Luck's team has the superior winning record. Things may change by the end of the season but the Skins would have to make some changes or get lucky with healthy players coming back.

If Garcon can't play they should start with Moss and speedster Robinson. While I have not been terribly impressed with any receiver in particular, I believe Hankerson is either hiding an injury or he has regressed.

If and when Garcon is available, they should still start Moss alongside him. Morgan can play a capable backup role. Moss is 33 but so what. he still gets separation at the line and has been productive when not dropping balls. Reggie Wayne is also 33 and is a starting receiver but look at his incredible 2012 numbers!

Anyway, although RGIII has played almost flawlessly this season, many of his fellow teammates on both sides of the ball have not lived up to their pay salary. IMO, he is more talented than Luck and has better stats than Luck but Luck has the benefit of a better offensive scheme and more talented WRs at his disposal.

[Englands Team]

In my opinion they are two great young talents. I just hope this thread runs for the next 10 years. It shows both teams made the right decision.

[The Trashman]

I agree. I haven't seen such a good QB draft as this year's draft. Tannehill and Wilson are holding the fort down, on their own, although at a different level.

[elkabong82]

Colts have played Bears- L, Vikings- W, Jags- L, Packers- W, Jets- L, Browns- W, Titans- W, Dolphins- W, Jags- W

Redskins have played Saints- W, Rams- L, Bengals- L, Tampa- W, Falcons- L, Vikings- W, Giants- L, Steelers- L, Panthers- L

The Steelers loss is the only one where the Skins weren't in it at the end. Last 2 games are the only losses that can't be exclusively blamed on the defense as the offense struggled.

Luck has not lost his top 2 receivers.

Give the Redskins a healthy Garcon and Davis, and even with a poor D we likely have the record Indy does if we played their schedule.

You say Luck deserves the OROY nod, but also acknowledge he's had more going for him than RG3.

The way things are going, both will win OROY in their respective conferences, but I do think Luck will win it for NFL and it will be due to team record, even though our poor record is no fault on RG3.

[Taylor703]

I'm starting to get annoyed by this. I've watched both play quite a bit and I have no idea how anyone can come away saying Luck is playing better?

[darrelgreenie]

If they were to switch teams I think Griffin would match or surpass Luck's numbers and production.

I doubt Luck could match Griffin's here.

[The Trashman]

@Taylor703, I don't believe anyone is saying Luck is playing better than RGIII.

If you take some time to read the OP, you will see where I said Luck has the benefit of playing in a better offensive scheme which takes advantage of his skills PLUS his receivers are healthy and have played infinitely better than what we have. Also, the Colts defense are not 1/2 as bad as out defense, so that is my analysis.

They commit less penalties, they catch the ball, they use their speed and overall have executed better. It's as simple as that. Nothing more or less.

[theTruthTeller]

Just for the record, Donnie Avery is 28 and has never had a 700 yard season. Hilton is a rookie picked in the third round from Florida International. Give the guy some credit here, Luck is having a great rookie season and is making mediocre receivers look great.

RG3 is making an offense with very little talent look downright scary.

I'm not sure why it even matters who is playing better. They were both picked with very high expectations, and both have exceeded those expectations.

[Bubble Screen]

I'm starting to get annoyed by this. I've watched both play quite a bit and I have no idea how anyone can come away saying Luck is playing better?

Well, he does have the most passing yards in the NFL this year. And he also owns the same record (half game better with Thursday's win) as Peyton Manning's Broncos, a guy that some are including in the MVP race.

And I don't think you can nitpick who the Colts have played. Before the season, you couldn't find ONE expert that thought that Luck was in a better situation than RG3. His team was a complete mess (2-14 last year). He's definitely the leader in ROY right now. Only way that changes is if the Redskins can start winning some games.

---------- Post added November-10th-2012 at 08:46 PM ----------

Just for the record, Donnie Avery is 28 and has never had a 700 yard season. Hilton is a rookie picked in the third round from Florida International. Give the guy some credit here, Luck is having a great rookie season and is making mediocre receivers look great.

RG3 is making an offense with very little talent look downright scary.

I'm not sure why it even matters who is playing better. They were both picked with very high expectations, and both have exceeded those expectations.

Completely agree with all of this.

[Chachie]

Before the season, you couldn't fine ONE expert that thought that Luck was in a better situation than RG3. His team was a complete mess (2-14 last year). He's definitely the leader in ROY right now. Only way that changes is it the Redskins can start winning some games.

Beat me to it.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Why do we have to discredit Luck so much?

Damn...he is playing with **** and making it look like gold. Give him a little credit... It's ok guys I promise lol

RGIII is great too...I'm pretty sure the planet won't implode if we admit it

[Bishop Hammer]

If they were to switch teams I think Griffin would match or surpass Luck's numbers and production.

I doubt Luck could match Griffin's here.

Bingo. If RGIII was with the colts they would still be doing well. If Luck was here he wouldn't look so hot. Andrew couldn't carry this roster like Griffin has.

[Bubble Screen]

Bingo. If RGIII was with the colts they would still be doing well. If Luck was here he wouldn't look so hot. Andrew couldn't carry this roster like Griffin has.

I don't know how you can say that for certain. If Luck were here, we wouldn't be running the gimmicky offense we are now. And I'm pretty sure the WR's we have currently are at least on par with the Colts' WRs. Better, I think. Remember, Wayne was there last year, too. Only difference is, his QBs were soo bad that he was almost a forgotten man.

I agree with the above poster. Why are people so against giving Luck any credit? What he's doing is amazing. It's ok to acknowledge it. To give Luck credit is not a knock against RG3 in any way, trust me. They are both great players in their own right.

[Taylor703]

I don't know how you can say that for certain. If Luck were here, we wouldn't be running the gimmicky offense we are now. And I'm pretty sure the WR's we have currently are at least on par with the Colts' WRs. Better, I think. Remember, Wayne was there last year, too. Only difference is, his QBs were soo bad that he was almost a forgotten man.

I agree with the above poster. Why are people so against giving Luck any credit? What he's doing is amazing. It's ok to acknowledge it. To give Luck credit is not a knock against RG3 in any way, trust me. They are both great players in their own right.

I just don't understand how you can say we have better receivers when our top receiver was still there second receiver to Wayne last year? They also drafted the top two TEs in college football. It has nothing to do with taking away credit from Luck but can people please stop with the whole "Luck had nothing to work with" deal?

[Bubble Screen]

I just don't understand how you can say we have better receivers when our top receiver was still there second receiver to Wayne last year? They also drafted the top two TEs in college football. It has nothing to do with taking away credit from Luck but can people please stop with the whole "Luck had nothing to work with" deal?

It's my opinion that Griffin III has more to work with here than Luck does there. Or at least it was before the season. And that opinion was shared by pretty much anyone that covers the NFL. I can't tell you how many times I heard the talking heads say Griffin III would be more successful (early on) than Luck.

Yes, Wayne is there. But like I said, Wayne was there last year, also. And he had a terrible season with those two bums throwing him the ball. Adding those TEs were nice, but RG3 inherited Fred Davis. And I think the WRs here, entering the season, were better than theirs. The thing is, Luck has been so good he's made people begin to think otherwise. And Luck was coming to a team that was 2-14. That negates the tougher schedule thing, imo.

Again, they were both great talents. I think some of you guys are taking us that are giving Luck credit, as some sort of knock against RG3. That's not it at all.

[Bishop Hammer]

I don't know how you can say that for certain. If Luck were here, we wouldn't be running the gimmicky offense we are now. And I'm pretty sure the WR's we have currently are at least on par with the Colts' WRs. Better, I think. Remember, Wayne was there last year, too. Only difference is, his QBs were soo bad that he was almost a forgotten man.

I agree with the above poster. Why are people so against giving Luck any credit? What he's doing is amazing. It's ok to acknowledge it. To give Luck credit is not a knock against RG3 in any way, trust me. They are both great players in their own right.

I'm not knocking Luck. I think he is a good QB, which I've said before in the forum, and think he'll have a good career. Truth is RGIII can make a lot of the throws Luck hits but I'm a bit concerned that Shanny keeps running the gimmick offense.

Also what makes you think our wrs are as good or better than the Colts? I'm not trying to start an argument, just curious how you've come to this conclusion.

[Bubble Screen]

I'm not knocking Luck. I think he is a good QB, which I've said before in the forum, and think he'll have a good career. Truth is RGIII can make a lot of the throws Luck hits but I'm a bit concerned that Shanny keeps running the gimmick offense.

Also what makes you think our wrs are as good or better than the Colts? I'm not trying to start an argument, just curious how you've come to this conclusion.

I think most people would say that Moss, Garcon, Hankerson, Robinson, Morgan etc are better than Hilton and Avery, and the rest of the Colts WRs. Again, I think Luck's been so good that he's made people think it's the other way around. And yeah, I agree that we've fallen in love with the gimmick offense a little too much. And defenses already appear to be on to it a little. Why we haven't thrown the ball more downfield, I'll never know. It can't just be that the Shanahans think we can't pass protect enough to pass more downfield, because Griffin takes a lot more of a pounding running the option plays. I have no idea what their thinking is there.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

I'm not knocking Luck. I think he is a good QB, which I've said before in the forum, and think he'll have a good career. Truth is RGIII can make a lot of the throws Luck hits but I'm a bit concerned that Shanny keeps running the gimmick offense.

Also what makes you think our wrs are as good or better than the Colts? I'm not trying to start an argument, just curious how you've come to this conclusion.

every article I read/analyst I listened to would not stop talking about how terrible the Colts overall team was compared to the Skins.

A colts fan even used that argument against me back around week 2-3

[afkidd]

Luck is looking more and more like the right choice for the colts. He is getting better. He hasn't had to deal with these injuries either, but it's not like he is working with megatron and Wallace.

[rm1369]

My two cents as a Colts fan:

Luck and RG3 are two amazing talents and both have very bright futures ahead of them. I doubt any Colts fan would trade Luck for RG3 and I doubt any Skins fan would trade RG3 for Luck. I don't believe you could go wrong with either player. Each players stats show not only their talent, but how the team is using them. RG3s numbers show low volume, low risk, and high efficiency. Lucks show high volume, high risk, and lower efficiency. This may have been a result of where each team thought it was. The Colts had nothing to lose after the previous 2-14 season and gutting of the roster, coaching staff, and front office. The Skins were universally thought to have a better roster and were ready to compete for a playoff spot. I'm very curious if Shanny will change his approach with RG3 considering the Skins current playoff chances. I said you can't go wrong with either player, but I do believe you can go wrong with how you develop them. IMO, they started the season as 1 and 1A. While Luck struggled a little early, RG3 shined. My honest belief is that Luck will continue to progress more in the 2nd half of the season and will be the better NFL quarterback at that time. I don't intend that to be a knock on RG3, it's a knock on Shanny. RG3 needs to throw more and throw more vertically, he needs to be allowed to make more mistakes and learn from them. Look at Mannings rookie numbers - he threw a ridiculous amount of INTs, but he learned from them and got significantly better quickly. Like Manning and Luck, RG3 is mentally strong, extremely smart, and overly competitive. He needs to be let loose.

As to the talent surrounding each one - Wayne has been extremely valuable to Luck and the rookie WRs and TEs. In that sense I believe Luck has an advantage over RG3. Other than that, I think many are overestimating the Colts roster. The main contributors on offense consist of 6 rookies, 3 2nd year players, 5 mediocre (at best) journeyman, and Reggie Wayne. The offense returned 3 starters - one of which played his first game this week. The o-line is horrible, 4 of the 5 positions have been like a game of musical chairs due to injury, and the projected staring lineup has yet to play a game together. Lucks pocket awareness has been amazing and is the only thing keeping him alive. The defense changed schemes (4-3 to 3-4), has been plagued by injuries, lacks talent, and had only forced 3 turnovers in the first 8 games. This is every bit the 2-14 team it was last year if it wasn't for Luck. 5 of the wins have been by 6 points or less, 4 have been 4th qtr comebacks, and 3 have been last minute game winning drives (IIRC). I know that ESPNs QBR stat is not thought of very highly here, but when you look at the situations in conjunction with the stats, Luck has been unbelievable.

[The Trashman]

Agreed. Like I said the difference between these two teams is turnovers, dropped balls and penalties. The Redskins have committed more not only than the Colts have but against the whole NFL. It is mind boggling. And I am not even counting games when the 1st kicker was mucking things up for us. The Skins could easily be 6-3 if their defense played 50% better, if their offense blocked better, the WRs held onto more passes and they didn't commit so many penalties.

Only time will see how they progress from here on out.

[beachboy757]

Well first I wanna say what's up to the Colts fan. Welcome to the board! It is interesting how the Skins don't have much history with the Colts but now with the QB's we will be intertwined for a while.

Personally I am not a hater of Luck. I had the pleasure(lol) of watching him Thursday night and I was very impressed with the pocket presence and confidence that he shows.

The only thing that bugs me is that people expect the same type of play with both these QB's. What both the Colts and Redskins have is two very unique QB's that will be successful in different ways.

I think as they mature we will see Luck pick apart defenses with his movement in the pocket and ability to look off safeties and db's and I think with RG3 he will be able to pick apart defenses with his ability to sell the play action ( especially that beautiful fake inside hand off /twirl around throw) and his ability to make plays with his legs.

Both Luck and RG3 seem to be fierce competitors and I truly hope one day we will see these two be able to finally answer the question "Luck vs RG3?" in front of millions and at the grandest place of all: the Superbowl.

[redskindan07]

If the season ended today I believe that Luck would be the ROY, RG3 will need to pick back up to where he was about a month ago to get back into it

[playoffsplz]

My two cents as a Colts fan:

Luck and RG3 are two amazing talents and both have very bright futures ahead of them. I doubt any Colts fan would trade Luck for RG3 and I doubt any Skins fan would trade RG3 for Luck. I don't believe you could go wrong with either player. Each players stats show not only their talent, but how the team is using them. RG3s numbers show low volume, low risk, and high efficiency. Lucks show high volume, high risk, and lower efficiency. This may have been a result of where each team thought it was. The Colts had nothing to lose after the previous 2-14 season and gutting of the roster, coaching staff, and front office. The Skins were universally thought to have a better roster and were ready to compete for a playoff spot. I'm very curious if Shanny will change his approach with RG3 considering the Skins current playoff chances. I said you can't go wrong with either player, but I do believe you can go wrong with how you develop them. IMO, they started the season as 1 and 1A. While Luck struggled a little early, RG3 shined. My honest belief is that Luck will continue to progress more in the 2nd half of the season and will be the better NFL quarterback at that time. I don't intend that to be a knock on RG3, it's a knock on Shanny. RG3 needs to throw more and throw more vertically, he needs to be allowed to make more mistakes and learn from them. Look at Mannings rookie numbers - he threw a ridiculous amount of INTs, but he learned from them and got significantly better quickly. Like Manning and Luck, RG3 is mentally strong, extremely smart, and overly competitive. He needs to be let loose.

As to the talent surrounding each one - Wayne has been extremely valuable to Luck and the rookie WRs and TEs. In that sense I believe Luck has an advantage over RG3. Other than that, I think many are overestimating the Colts roster. The main contributors on offense consist of 6 rookies, 3 2nd year players, 5 mediocre (at best) journeyman, and Reggie Wayne. The offense returned 3 starters - one of which played his first game this week. The o-line is horrible, 4 of the 5 positions have been like a game of musical chairs due to injury, and the projected staring lineup has yet to play a game together. Lucks pocket awareness has been amazing and is the only thing keeping him alive. The defense changed schemes (4-3 to 3-4), has been plagued by injuries, lacks talent, and had only forced 3 turnovers in the first 8 games. This is every bit the 2-14 team it was last year if it wasn't for Luck. 5 of the wins have been by 6 points or less, 4 have been 4th qtr comebacks, and 3 have been last minute game winning drives (IIRC). I know that ESPNs QBR stat is not thought of very highly here, but when you look at the situations in conjunction with the stats, Luck has been unbelievable.

Welcome to the board, and I completely agree with everything you wrote. I've been really impressed with the way the Colts have handled Luck. They know he can make the throws and they are just letting him sling it, win or lose, turnover or not, and it's working. That's the NFL today....you gotta trust your receivers to make a play, especially when it's one on one. If you have a QB that can at least throw the ball to a spot that gives the WR even the slightest advantage, then you have to trust the WR to make a play. Especially with the rules they have on defenders nowadays...most attempts to "cheat" or gain the advantage results in a penalty.

I'm definitely concerned with RGIII's development and confidence. Especially after the last game where he appeared to miss some easy big yardage plays and at times seem to be a deer in headlights.. Maybe in fear of making a mistake, and I'd venture to guess that is exactly why, but when your 3-6 I hope the attitude after the bye is more in line with the Colts approach.

[illone]

Luck has played FAR worse pass defenses the past few weeks, hence he has looked like the better player and has gotten more media love lately.

Not taking anything away from him, but RG3 is the better player. If the season ended today, Luck would be ROY.

However, the season does NOT end today and RG3 has some more games to right the ship and improve his play. I think he will come out on top.