themurf Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (photo by Brian Murphy) The Washington Redskins have been associated with seemingly every big story the NFL has had this offseason. Local fans are still reeling from the league’s decision to penalize the Redskins for salary cap decisions that were made during an (allegedly) uncapped year. That announcement, of course, came just days after one of the biggest trades in football history which will hopefully bring Baylor quarterback Robert Griffin III to D.C. But before all of that, there was a huge controversy involving a former member of the Washington coaching staff that had everyone questioning the integrity of the game. Gregg Williams, who oversaw the defense under head coach Joe Gibbs, found himself in the league’s crosshairs after an NFL investigation found that his New Orleans Saints defense had a bounty system from 2009-2011 involving more than 20 players. From there, it was only a matter of time before people began second-guessing every other stop in Williams’ coaching career — including Washington. While that was to be expected, I can honestly say I was a bit surprised when this controversy was then linked to the one headline of the offseason the Redskins had managed to avoid — Peyton Manning. Turns out, that former Indianapolis Colts head coach Tony Dungy is convinced Manning’s neck issues all started back in 2006 against the Redskins.* *Here’s a video of the play, for those who are interested. “Earlier in the game, I’m outraged that there was a flag for roughing-the-passer on Dwight Freeney for just grazing the quarterback’s helmet,” Dungy said. “So I’m yelling at the ref [scott Green], ‘Where’s the flag! Where’s the flag!’ And I don’t yell much, but I did then. So I didn’t notice Peyton calling timeout and being shaken up. Peyton came to the sideline and said to [backup] Jim Sorgi, ‘Jim, start warming up.’ As the timeout went on, he said to us, ‘I can stay in, but we need to run the ball here.”’ “Then we sort of forgot about it at halftime, and Peyton seemed fine,” Dungy continued. “He lit it up in the second half. He was on fire [throwing for 244 yards and three touchdowns]. But that’s the year we started cutting back on his throws at practice. I’m not putting two plus two together. I just figure he’s getting older and he needs some time off, he’s made enough throws. But now, as I look back on it, there’s no doubt in my mind that this was the start of his neck problems.” That story by Dungy led Peter King, of Sports Illustrated, to write the following: “There’s no evidence that Washington’s defenders had a bounty out on Manning that night. But it’s a question, surely, that begs to be asked. And if I were one of the league investigators interviewing Williams today, it’s certainly something I’d explore.” King isn’t the only person to wonder whether or not Washington defenders purposely tried to injure Manning that night, so I went straight to the source and asked former Redskins defensive end Andre Carter to shed some light on the play and on Gregg Williams in general. When the Gregg Williams controversy broke, more than a few mainstream media wondered if a particular play involving you, Phil Daniels and Peyton Manning back in ‘06 might have had something to do with all of this bounty talk. First of all, do you remember the play in question? “Yeah, I remember it,” Carter said. “That was just one of those plays when both of us were coming from our side of the field and we met in the middle. It’s just one of those fluke plays that happens in football sometimes. We’re not trying to take that guy out. One of us happened to hit him high and one of us hit him low, but it’s not like either of us wanted to try and take the guy out.” With that in mind, how do you respond to people questioning whether you’d purposely try to injure Manning or anyone else to pocket some extra money? “That talk doesn’t sit well with me at all,” Carter said. “At the end of the day, we’re talking about someone else’s career. Why would I try to jeopardize someone else’s career while they’re trying to make a living? I enjoy my job too much to do something like that and I definitely believe in karma. I mean, I wouldn’t want someone to try and do that to me. That’s just not part of the game. I don’t like to hear people criticize or question the way we play, but at the end of the day we were just trying to make a play on the ball. It was fluky and it was unfortunate, but we never tried to take him out of the game. That’s just nonsense.” Unfortunately, we live in a world where people love to rush to judgment without knowing anything about the situation. Could you talk a little bit about what Gregg Williams was like when you played for him. Click here for the rest of the article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airs0ft3r Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Great article, thanks for the evidence to support Fletcher's comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paloosa Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 That was an honest answer by Andre Carter but eveyone does want to rush to judgement especially when it comes to the Redskins because we employed a douche bag in Gregg Williams. I think he did a lot of this on his won because of his ego and will hurt him in his next HC job opportunity which won't ever come. St. Louis will be looking for a new DC because Gregg Williams will be suspended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Remember Phillip Daniels even made his own thread here last year when Manning was injured and Dungy started talking about that game. He was really pissed off that Dungy was insinuating that it was somehow a dirty play. I think Dungy has been around long enough to know better but he was still saying it. As if PD can stop in mid air and not hit Manning like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themurf Posted March 19, 2012 Author Share Posted March 19, 2012 Great article, thanks for the evidence to support Fletcher's comments. Thank you for the kind words. Anyone who follows Carter on Twitter knows he's a very spiritual individual, so I had a hard time believing he'd purposely try to injure someone for a few extra bucks. Plus, I was surprised no one had contacted him after the story broke and people kept referring to that particular play back in '06, so I was glad he had time to chat. Again, thanks for reading this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Two thoughts on this... First, nice article and I tend to believe him. Second, it's hard to believe any player wouldn't deny being part of a bounty system. The league might fine or suspend him for such actions. Thus, it's hard to know if what a player who is currently a part of the NFL is telling the truth on this or not. Still, I tend to believe him as he did not have a history of dirty shots or controversial hits. In fact, I can't think of many at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2cents Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Look. Tony Dungy is a great guy. Great Coach and even better person, no one doubts that. But I don't think it's fair for him to say this play got Payton injured and to go about talking about it like it is a fact when there is no proof that that is the case. Maybe it was or maybe it was just the wear and tear over the years and that hit surely didn't help. I just wish he would stop saying it like it is a fact and stop saying the play was a penalty, which it was not. It was just a hard it, which is part of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 I remember when that hit happened there were several pages in the game day thread about it wondering if he could still play after that. Probably the biggest hit Manning ever took in his career but it wasn't dirty at all. Of course most hits on QB's that are flagged aren't dirty either. The NFL has just gotten ridiculous about it since Godell. I'm sure that play would have resulted in a big fine if it happened last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss_Hogg Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Found a vid of the hit. This has been one of the hardest videos to find on the internets: a53HkdKDus4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huly Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Great read Murph! BTW I saw a Fat Tire truck this morning and I thought of you. Everytime I see one it brings you to my mind. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 thanks for the interview and write up, but lets have a little dose of reality here: after what the NFL just did to the saints, do you really think anyone is going to admit to participating in something like this now? i'm not saying it happened, but if you think gibbs, carter, fletcher, and others saying it didn't happen in washington means it didn't happen, then i think you're being a bit biased. i hope it didn't happen, but i'm not that naive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bifflog Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 They said all that stuff before the penalty was levied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red dot in a sea of blue Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I think that it's all pretty much been said by now. Every player in the NFL is trying to knock the other team's players out of the game. Every player on defense, especially those paid millions of dollars to rush the QB are trying to knock the guy out of the game or at least hit the guy as hard as he can. No one is doing it strictly for a thousand dollar bonus, and no one is doing it strictly to end someones season/career. The "bounty" systems that teams ran were just recognition for a hard/fair play. No one has ever said that GW or another coach has ever given money/reward specifically for a dirty play because it was dirty. If people think without the "bounty" system allowed anymore that teams and players aren't going to play as hard or hit as hard, or try and knock other team's players out of the game on clean hits then they are fools. Great write up as per usual though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsiaticSkinsFan Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I dont know what Williams did in New Orleans, but enough former Redskins players have come out and said that it did not happen here to convince me that it did not happen. On a podcast I listen to, a former practice squad player said the team had incentive bonuses in practice for making gamechanging plays. Either a sack, creating a turnover, stuff like that. THe money would come from a fine from when the defensive team had a penalty in practice. It was really interesting to hear it from that standpoint because he said the money was important for him because he was a practice squad player but they were never told to intentionally hurt anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Thanks for the write-up and video. The more I watch, it was more the way everyone collapsed around him that got him stuck where he was, and he couldn't avoid Daniels coming at him. Dungy should be blaming his o-line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimboDaMan Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 thanks for the interview and write up, but lets have a little dose of reality here:after what the NFL just did to the saints, do you really think anyone is going to admit to participating in something like this now? i'm not saying it happened, but if you think gibbs, carter, fletcher, and others saying it didn't happen in washington means it didn't happen, then i think you're being a bit biased. i hope it didn't happen, but i'm not that naive. I can't speak for the players. There's a code of silence in the locker room, and plus as you say to admit something leaves you open to a punishment. But if Joe Gibbs says he didn't know of such a thing happening, that means he didn't know of such a thing happening. It could have happened without his knowledge, but Gibbs is a man who would tell you and take his lumps if there were any to be taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Adama Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Thanks Murf!! Great to hear this! ---------- Post added March-23rd-2012 at 11:26 AM ---------- thanks for the interview and write up, but lets have a little dose of reality here:after what the NFL just did to the saints, do you really think anyone is going to admit to participating in something like this now? i'm not saying it happened, but if you think gibbs, carter, fletcher, and others saying it didn't happen in washington means it didn't happen, then i think you're being a bit biased. i hope it didn't happen, but i'm not that naive. Honestly, Gibbs is out of the league...what could they do to him? Plus, Gibbs would not answer the question rather than lie. I totally believe Gibbs, Fletcher, and Carter and if you label me naive, I would say that you sir, are jaded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SittingBull Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Report: Williams put $15,000 bounty on Brad Johnson in 2006 http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/23/report-gregg-williams-put-15000-bounty-on-brad-johnson-in-2006/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyam333 Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Just when you start thinking we are safe I read this. Pretty surprised about this and I can't see Gibbs allowing this. Let's see how this progresses or if there will be any disciple for us, though all of those coaches have left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperDaveVA1975 Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Praying here that all of this doesnt cost us the RG3 trade. I listened to Lavar talk about this for like 45 mns yesterday and it was like Lavar felt we deserved to be penalized for this bounty stuff. If they took our second round pick would that void the trade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfansince1988 Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 we are not being punished we have already been cleared. But I have had it with these Redskins beat reporters that are so upset we are not punished and won't rest until we are, unaminous sources, either state your name or shut up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Report: Williams put $15,000 bounty on Brad Johnson in 2006http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/23/report-gregg-williams-put-15000-bounty-on-brad-johnson-in-2006/ That's a pretty significant expansion of this issue if it hold up. ---------- Post added March-23rd-2012 at 11:42 AM ---------- we are not being punished we have already been cleared. Falsely secure reading of the official league statement. Goodell said the investigation can be reopened anytime if there's new evidence.They covered their bases (as should be expected). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2cents Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Praying here that all of this doesnt cost us the RG3 trade. I listened to Lavar talk about this for like 45 mns yesterday and it was like Lavar felt we deserved to be penalized for this bounty stuff. If they took our second round pick would that void the trade? LaVar is also an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mocountyskins Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 How come Ex Redskins players always want to run their mouths about things that shouldent be talked about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derskinsfan Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 First, if this new report is true it falls squarely on Williams and he has already been punished. Second, if this report is true, i don't know what's more disturbing: the fact that Williams did it or the fact that it had absolutely no impact on getting to Johnson or us even winning that game. Third, we need to break the culture of pessimism. In this thread, and others, there is always this hanging sense of dread that something bad is about to happen. The RGIII trade will be voided, we'll lose more draft picks, the Colts will take him, we'll fight the unreasonable cap penalty but something even worse will happen as a result. As a Skins fan, I know that these dark thoughts are real. I have them often myself. And we've had some bad stuff that has happened. No doubt. But we've GOT TO SHAKE the profound culture of doom! That's loser thinking! In everything that I've seen, RGIII walks, talks, runs, throws, and smiles like a winner. I am opening my heart to the hope that he will help the rest of the team behave in the same way because of his leadership... and not looking for the ways that we will turn him into a loser or lose him somehow because we don't deserve him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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