themurf Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 Do you think he is?...What about Luck? I'm going to do a post on this between now and the draft, but I look at Robert Griffin III's skill set and what Mike Shanahan asks of his quarterbacks and I really see him as a solid match. He's not perfect and it could very well take him a little time to adjust to lining up under center or whatever, but I'm convinced he would do well in this system. How good could he be here? Man, if any of us truly knew the answer, we'd be making a lot more money than we are now. Either way, thanks for being a part of the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 History and data says that having a top 10 QB ensures your team's success as long as your QB is a top 10 QB. So no, using 3 picks on one position, the most vital position, does not handicap anything, especially with Free Agency.You could have 21 pro bowlers but without that QB, it matters not. Using 3 picks on one position handicaps us immensely if RGIII busts. Look I think he is a great prospect, but he still a prospect and there is no certainty over how he is going to perform as an NFL QB. I think he is a good enough prospect to make it worth trading up for him - but not at any cost. I'm not saying you are doing this but there seems to be a growing sentiment underlying a lot of posts that drafting RGIiI assures us of having an elite QB for the next decade. It gives us a chance and one we should persue but it's not a sure thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 But if your first scenario holds, we will have a pick in the last first round, which would make it, short of a Ditka-style deal, impossible to draft Barkley? It's possible but not probable Barkley could be better than RG3, but we won't get him if we sign Manning, unless Manning is a complete flop. The first scenario doesn't say that Manning would take the Skins to (at least) the NFC Championship game in his first year, though...so the Skins could still end up with a relatively low draft pick. Not to mention that the scenario doesn't make the claim that Barkley would be universally seen as a top 2 pick...in that scenario he could be projected to around #8 or #9, well within the realm of drafting for most teams in the league. Again, you gotta act on more probable outcomes, not less probable outcomes. So you're saying I've been posting like a mad man for nothing?!?! :mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 So you're saying I've been posting like a mad man for nothing?!?! :mad: Hey, he said there was a chance ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 History and data says that having a top 10 QB ensures your team's success as long as your QB is a top 10 QB. What? lol So no, using 3 picks on one position, the most vital position, does not handicap anything, especially with Free Agency. What about using 4 picks? Is there any historical data analyzing teams that use 4 picks to trade up for a QB? You could have 21 pro bowlers but without that QB, it matters not. Somehow I doubt that lol...I'll easily be content having the #11 QB in the league along with 21 Pro Bowlers :thumbsup:... ---------- Post added February-15th-2012 at 09:59 AM ---------- Hey, he said there was a chance ...... ---------- Post added February-15th-2012 at 10:02 AM ---------- I'm going to do a post on this between now and the draft, but I look at Robert Griffin III's skill set and what Mike Shanahan asks of his quarterbacks and I really see him as a solid match. He's not perfect and it could very well take him a little time to adjust to lining up under center or whatever, but I'm convinced he would do well in this system. How good could he be here? Man, if any of us truly knew the answer, we'd be making a lot more money than we are now.Either way, thanks for being a part of the discussion. I'm looking forward to that write-up, because I definitely feel the same way about RG3 :yes:...I'm having few doubts that he would eventually make this offense ridiculously dynamic. ---------- Post added February-15th-2012 at 10:05 AM ---------- Using 3 picks on one position handicaps us immensely if RGIII busts. Seriously would lol ... A lot of people here kept saying to think of how much further ahead we may have been if we had kept the draft picks used on McNabb and rolled with JC for one more year--or, hell, just went with Grossman from the start. And that was just a 2nd and a 4th lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Using 3 picks on one position handicaps us immensely if RGIII busts. Look I think he is a great prospect, but he still a prospect and there is no certainty over how he is going to perform as an NFL QB. I think he is a good enough prospect to make it worth trading up for him - but not at any cost. I think IMO these debates get too caught up in our own evaluations of RG III as if its means even a whit a difference to the bottom line. Shanny I would assume has studied this guy or is about to do so to death. If he thinks RG III is a major crap shoot, won't adapt well from the spread offense or whatever. he unlikely trades up, if on the other hand he believes he has the makings of a franchise QB he likely pulls the trigger. In other words, I would presume Shanny puts a lot of thought into the odds of RG III busting or not. My point here is the idea that if Shanny thinks RG III is a big risk I really doubt he makes this move, so for those who worry about it, I'd trust Shanny to make that deduction. As for the posts about the risk of losing picks, etc. 2 things: 1. Considering the Colts can likely get a kings ransom for the #1 pick, why don't they want to trade the pick? they got way more needs than we do. 2. Why did the Giants trade up for a QB after their 4-12 season? Their roster wasn't loaded either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 But if the team is, say, 7 players away, would a move that could realistically rob that team of 4 of those players be delaying success as much as not drafting "the" QB? And that is probably what the FO is going through. Do we get 1 impact player or sprinkle 3 good players in the mix. (We swap 1st, so they cancel out) ---------- Post added February-15th-2012 at 01:22 PM ---------- A lot of people here kept saying to think of how much further ahead we may have been if we had kept the draft picks used on McNabb and rolled with JC for one more year--or, hell, just went with Grossman from the start. And that was just a 2nd and a 4th lol... Small consolation prize is that we got a 6th back for McNabb in the Vikings deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
War Paint Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Using 3 picks on one position handicaps us immensely if RGIII busts. Look I think he is a great prospect, but he still a prospect and there is no certainty over how he is going to perform as an NFL QB. I think he is a good enough prospect to make it worth trading up for him - but not at any cost. I'm not saying you are doing this but there seems to be a growing sentiment underlying a lot of posts that drafting RGIiI assures us of having an elite QB for the next decade. It gives us a chance and one we should persue but it's not a sure thing. If we did trade up for RG3 and he busts, we'll just continue to be a 5-11 team. Nothing will really change. We would just have to go for another QB in about three years. Rinse and repeat until you find the franchise guy. Besides, any player and any position drafted in the top 5 can turn into a bust. The only way he would turn out to be a bust is if his heart just isn't into it. If you read stories about pasts busts, you'll see that they didn't have the passion for the game. Leif said that he didn't enjoy playing football at the NFL level because it became more of a job. The only way I see RG3 turning into a bust is if he goes to a team that has a terrible support system, which results in him saying "screw this, I'm going to quit the NFL and go to Law School" or if he turns into a wild party guy. Considering he is engaged, I highly doubt he will be sipping the purple drank at the strip club. On the bright side, if he turns out as good as most scouts project, you are set at the most important position for 12+ years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themurf Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 If we did trade up for RG3 and he busts, we'll just continue to be a 5-11 team. Nothing will really change. For all of the back and forth on this subject, you're the first person to put it so wonderfully. Honestly, you cracked me up with your take on this. Thanks for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 If we did trade up for RG3 and he busts, we'll just continue to be a 5-11 team. True - but we will be a 5-11 team or worse for quite a while longer. This offseason will set the future of this franchise for the next 5 or 6 years not the next 3 IMO. The only way he would turn out to be a bust is if his heart just isn't into it. If you read stories about pasts busts, you'll see that they didn't have the passion for the game. Firstly I don't accept that the only way RGIII can bust is if he is not in love with the NFL, there are still questions about how he will transition to the NFL aside from the intangibles and drive. But just setting that aside and assuming what you said is correct does a guy who says in an interview that his dream is to go to law school and become a sports agent and that the NFL is his next option sound like someone with a passion for the game? Again by the way I do think RGIIi is an outstanding prospect just not the slam dunk to be a cant miss franchise QB for whoever drafts him for the next 10 years he is being portrayed as by some posters. However as someone else pointed out earlier what you or I think about RGIII is not at issue, it's what Shanny thinks about him that will matter. On the bright side, if he turns out as good as most scouts project, you are set at the most important position for 12+ years. Fingers crossed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 And that is probably what the FO is going through. Do we get 1 impact player or sprinkle 3 good players in the mix. (We swap 1st, so they cancel out) Actually, since it's a matter of either picking 1 player or 4 players, it would be "1 impact player or 4 players--at least 2 of which are impact players." Then after that, it's a matter of "Would RG3 have a larger impact than the 2 unnamed impact players the Skins would be giving up to get him?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwitt Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Yikes! http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/15/manning-underwent-unknown-surgery-last-year/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Yikes!http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/15/manning-underwent-unknown-surgery-last-year/ If he is not healthy then you just don't take the chance. However I would take this type of report right now with a pinch of salt, the Colts are trying to keep their fan base from going nuclear when they cut Manning and are looking to prepare their ground that it's a medical reason and/or Peyton refusing to restructure to stay. A lot of PR stuff going on for hearts and minds right now in what's starting to resemble a messy divorce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattFancy Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Yikes!http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/15/manning-underwent-unknown-surgery-last-year/ Well that could change some things... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Yikes!http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/15/manning-underwent-unknown-surgery-last-year/ Oy vey lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terpskins10 Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I'm not saying you are doing this but there seems to be a growing sentiment underlying a lot of posts that drafting RGIiI assures us of having an elite QB for the next decade. It gives us a chance and one we should persue but it's not a sure thing. No QB - not even Luck - is a sure thing. Do you think we should never try to land a top college QB? The way it stands, in the last 20 years we've never been bad enough to land a top QB and never been good enough to warrant continuity. Something has to give. We have the highest pick right now that we'll hope to have in the Shanahan era, so it's time to make the move. I'm not saying we can't get worse as a team, but I don't think it's that likely if we make the right upgrades this offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 No QB - not even Luck - is a sure thing. Do you think we should never try to land a top college QB?The way it stands, in the last 20 years we've never been bad enough to land a top QB and never been good enough to warrant continuity. Something has to give. We have the highest pick right now that we'll hope to have in the Shanahan era, so it's time to make the move. I'm not saying we can't get worse as a team, but I don't think it's that likely if we make the right upgrades this offseason. You seem not have read the part of my post where I said I thought RGIII was worth taking a gamble on trading up for. Just dont do it thinking he is a sure fire can't miss prospect with no risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Janky Spanky Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I want RG3, although Manning not costing any draft picks is enticing. Serious question though that I've seen asked but not answered: How are Peyton and Kyle Shanahan going to get along? It's obvious that Kyle would really have to change his system and his mentality to deal with Peyton. Would that even work?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pick6 Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Firstly I don't accept that the only way RGIII can bust is if he is not in love with the NFL, there are still questions about how he will transition to the NFL aside from the intangibles and drive. But just setting that aside and assuming what you said is correct does a guy who says in an interview that his dream is to go to law school and become a sports agent and that the NFL is his next option sound like someone with a passion for the game? Fingers crossed! I believe that interview was conducted before he declared for the NFL draft. So it may need to be taken with a grain of salt. I think he already finished undergrad too, so the next step would be law school if he stayed at Baylor. I guess I just don't read that much into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Yeah, because even though there are HIPPA laws regarding patient confidentiality, Don Banks was given a waiver to all of Peyton's medical records. Yeah right Banks. Banks is like a TMZ reporter. Like he'd be the only one privy to Peyton's condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C26 Run Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 We need to steer clear of Peyton Manning http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/don_banks/02/15/peyton/index.html?eref=sircrc :helmet: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/don_banks/02/15/peyton/index.html?eref=sircrc *tongue-in-cheek mode activate* Ignoring the article for the moment, since we need more confirmation from multiple sources I'd imagine, but does anyone else think Manning looks like he has a beer gut in the picture there. I realize he's leaning back, but it looks like its farther out than it ought to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCClybun Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 ...So now he's a 36 year old quarterback coming off FOUR neck surgeries in 18 months... HOW IS PEYTON STILL AN OPTION! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff_K Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 No he is too old, too many neck surgeries (up to 4 now according to reports). He would want too much money. I hope we are not even on Manning's radar. I DOUBT he wold want to play his brother twice a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonnyjz Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 *tongue-in-cheek mode activate*Ignoring the article for the moment, since we need more confirmation from multiple sources I'd imagine, but does anyone else think Manning looks like he has a beer gut in the picture there. I realize he's leaning back, but it looks like its farther out than it ought to be. Absolutely hilarious. That was the very first thing that crossed my mind when I saw the photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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