CSN:Landry elects not to have surgery

[elkabong82]

Sorry my empathy does not meet your threshold...if you read my post I also wish him the best in whatever recovery he elects.

As far as armchair gms, find me the empathy clause in his contract which he will be seeking to renew in 3 months. If somehow, by your definition) I am not a fan because I point out he has not played to expected potential, but rather underperformed, so be it. I am a fan of the team, but not a fan if every player on the team regardless of every players situation.

Again..to be clear, I hope he recovers fully with or without surgery.

I'm talking about having enough empathy for a player of our team who has been dedicated and not spoken ill of the team and is willing to be tagged (instead of demanding a big contract he may not deserve like Rogers did) to restrain onesself from bashing him over not having surgery when we aren't in his situation, and instead doing as you say and wishing him a speedy, full recovery and leaving the decision to the Skins as to whether or not to bring him back.

I can understand simply not wanting him back because of injury concerns, though I think it's foolish myself to neglect him when he can be brought back on a 1 year incentive laden deal (his words), but I think the posters going beyond criticism and grossly overexaggerating how bad they think his play is, and using his current decision to say he doesn't care about the team, and painting an irrational and unrealistic picture of the man and his situation are pulling a sad move and when someone does something like that then I believe it's fair to question their loyalty as nothing more than a shallow, what have you done for me lately stance.

I then took it a step further by questioning why players would want to be loyal to such fickle fans, and stated that fans should show the same level of loyalty and respect for our players as they demand.

[SkinsGuy]

This may be true. But as of January 24 at 7:20 PM EST, Landry is still a Redskin. Going by your post, you should still be cheering for him. As soon as he signs with another team, you can give your good riddance. However, as long as he is still a Redskin, he will have my support.

Your post contradicts itself. "I will support the players on the Redskins, but I will not be loyal to the players on the Redskins."

No, it doesn't contradict itself.

I said in my post I will cheer for Landry, when he is ON THE FIELD, as long as he is a Redskin.

However, being a Redskin (for now) does not put him above criticism for his actions or decisions which jeporadize the team, which is what we are here for.

There are some here who apparently want us to show blind loyalty to Landry the person, the individual man.

That I won't do.

---------- Post added January-25th-2012 at 04:51 AM ----------

Each to their own, but it amuses me that folk with an invested emotional interest in their team, fans, who like the Washington Redskins will be here LONG after we're all an afterthought with a lot of current players; don't have a problem with a player who the Redskins employ, dictating to them what's going to happen and not the other way around. Which is the bottom line here, regardless of what you think or not about LaRon Landry. If the team has one of it's commodities depreciating in worth both currently to what he isn't giving the team; and in any potential future trade value; and under expert medical advice they want to protect the massive investment in him through surgery; then the player should darn well have that surgery. NOT be the one dictating to the team. That's an ass-backward situation right there.

I don't know how that simple concept is so lost on so many.

Hail.

True, and this is also one of the reasons I think Landry may be gone, no matter what he decides with his injury.

Landry is part of that old 'Club Med/Inmates running the asylum' crowd that Shanahan has been trying to weed out. Those that think they are above the team, and above the coaches. A little too opinionated for the collective good of the team.

Many of these guys are gone now. Some are still here and seem to have bought into what Shanahan is selling (like Santana Moss, who I thought would be gone last year).

Then there are those like Landry. Very gifted and a lot of potential at SS, but still stubbornly trying to hold on to the old way of doing things.

It took going to another team for Carlos Rogers to get a new perspective on things and why Shanahan is trying to change the culture here (even if the jerk doesn't want to admit it). Sadly, the same thing may be needed for Landry.

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

Here's the thing, I've seen Landry hit the arm flex twice in that situation, tussle or say a few words a couple other times, and help the player up in the game against the Bills. The two times he flexed after giving up a first down I was upset, the times he spoke to the player he hit I really didn't care, the game with Freddie Jackson I understood they were friends so it was different. Somehow that has been turned into this accepted assertion that Landry showboats when we are losing and after he gives up big plays. It's just not true. Go back and show me more than those very few plays where he got caught up in the moment and celebrated too far(VD first TD against the Giants- it's dumb but it happens). The majority of the time he does that celebration after he just LIT UP a receiver, or got a sack, or forced a fumble. I know, he hasn't played in a while so I guess it's easier for some people to remember the negatives than the positives.

IMO, you are enabling his behavior....Let's put it like this, the guy has celebrated way way way too many plays where he gave up a first or some form of positive yardage since he's been in the league. LOTS more than twice. I like the guy, I'm a fan it's not crucify time, but please don't tell me my eyes are mistaken, cause their not! lol. It's called growing up and maturing, hopefully that will manifest itself more, if he's on the team.

[Skinzfever2010]

I seriously don't like when untruths get told so many times they become the general consensus. I recorded every game from last season (including the 6 he played in) and there ISN'T ONE PLAY WE'RE HE CELEBRATES AFTER THE OPPOSING TEAM GETS A FIRST DOWN. Jawing with a player and celebrating after they get a first down are two completely different things. Laron isn't the only player talking trash to the opposing team. I can name almost each player on D excluding Ryan Kerrigan who talked smack to opposing players after a play was made.

I challenge any of my fellow ES brethren to support this claim that is playing a unique role in Laron being unfairly portrayed here.

Another untruth being spread is that Laron is a locker room cancer. Where is this coming from?? He's been openly praised by each coaching staff that's been here for his work ethic and skills. No run ins with the law or anything DIVA-esq to his name yet this claims are made here with no supporting detail on a consistent basis.

Extremeskin propaganda

"Laron is apart of the old way of doing things" um... What?

"He needs to go, he's a cancer" says who? Any facts to support this?

Maybe you guys should say you hate him and explain your personal reasons for it.

Edit* He's already said he is willing to sign a one year contract with incentives to stay here and prove he's a freak. According to the ES brain trust he was going to ask for the top dollar smh.

[Arsenic]

If he pulls a Carlos Rogers, and gets the surgery after we don't resign him and he's on another team, my head is going to explode.

This is exactly what I feel the future holds.

While I'm at it, I'd like to mention a concern my gut currently holds.

Under Mike Shanahan, this team has constantly progressed. However, I think Carlos Rogers situation will haunt us moving forward. I get the feeling that he's talking to Redskins players, saying "I told ya so" and putting much effort, at least whatever possible, into the dismantle & sabotage of this team. I believe Carlos has the ear of Laron who will soon join him in San Francisco. In an act of disapproval, I believe Mike Shanahan will force Laron Landry to stay in Washington, out of spite. Without surgery, LL cuold ruin his career. Lets hope not many others will join CR & LL in "the walk". And lets pray this is not the beginning of the end of, what I currently see as, a great rebuild.

As tough as this rebuild has/will be, this could be a Mike Singletary-type situation. Shanahan has made much progress... If he bails, someone will win with the team he has built.

Don't give up on us, Mike.. I believe!

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Another untruth being spread is that Laron is a locker room cancer. Where is this coming from?? He's been openly praised by each coaching staff that's been here for his work ethic and skills.

There's a Hollywood-esq history rewrite right there.

His first three years in the league, he was a complete waste of natural God given ability. Doing his own thing in pre-season; a very questionable practice guy and studier, per numerous reports from both players and coaches coming out of Redskins Park; and a complete bonehead on the field, often going for the big highlight reel hit and totally messing it up instead of doing his job and getting the fundamental's right. His tackling overall was shockingly bad for a player as blessed as LaRon, often not only failing to bring down his man, but taking shocking angles and blowing the coverage completely. His signature hit was becoming the gutless late hit out of bounds, incurring dumbass penalty's that doubly hit his teammates. It didn't matter which safety position he played, when the personal dedication wasn't there, he was on a loser to begin with. Just another starting safety in this league rated highly only by Redskin fans.

2010, a light finally went on with LaRon. He started putting football first, totally dedicating himself to his craft. By all accounts, he become a a real dedicated film studier, and worked as hard as anyone in the weight room and on the practice field. And it was really beginning to show on the field of play. If there was a more dominating, fearsome SS in the NFL through the first 9 games of 2010 I'd like to hear of him. 2 or 3 times he was in double figures for tackling through that spell. He was a PB certainty the level he was playing at.

Then we get to the achiles njury and subsequent hammi that's more or less gona' write off LaRon Landry's 2011 and 2012 season's in DC if we keep him; through nothing else but a return to that self centred, stubborn arrogance resurfacing that puts himself above his teamamtes and coaches.

Pretty easy to see why people think the 'old' Landry has reared it's ugly head again.

I honestly thought his attitude had changed under Shanahan. Heck, I thought the whole culture had changed. But as Shanahan's finding out with the Davis/ Williams disgrace last year, and now this continued B/S of a player dictating to his team what's going to happen; he's not totally got that iron rod rule that he thought he had in place yet.

And FWIW, the only person I've read, certainly within this thread, that's used the term 'cancer' when it comes to LaRon, is yourself. Personal aside, but I do wish folk would think on the connotations of that word before they sling it around so freely.

Hail.

[Darrell Green Fan]

LOL at the posts asking why he would play for such a fan base or that we are somehow enabling his behavior. Newsflash: he doesn't care about us and we are doing nothing to effect his behavior.

As for the other criticisms I don't see how anyone can say that he has not been a disappointment given that he was the 6th pick of the draft. He has had about 8 good games in his entire career. As for the "celebrating" charge, jawing at a WR, as if to prove how tough you are, after said receiver just beat you for 12 yards and a first down is totally bush. Tell me he didn't look like a clown after that pre-game dust up with DJax, only to get toasted on the very first play. OK so "celebrating" may be the wrong term. Still doesn't change the fact that he looks like an ass a lot of the time.

[DexterSackMachine]

but I think the posters going beyond criticism and grossly overexaggerating how bad they think his play is, and using his current decision to say he doesn't care about the team, and painting an irrational and unrealistic picture of the man and his situation are pulling a sad move and when someone does something like that then I believe it's fair to question their loyalty as nothing more than a shallow, what have you done for me lately stance.

Landry has 4 INT's in 5 seasons! We all know he' missed tons of games, even more practices, and almost all training camps, but I believe that most people even grossly overestimate his level of play the last 5 years. He's one of those guys whose deficiencies are masked by a few highlight hits.

[Skinzfever2010]

There's a Hollywood-esq history rewrite right there.

His first three years in the league, he was a complete waste of natural God given ability. Doing his own thing in pre-season; a very questionable practice guy and studier, per numerous reports from both players and coaches coming out of Redskins Park; and a complete bonehead on the field, often going for the big highlight reel hit and totally messing it up instead of doing his job and getting the fundamental's right. His tackling overall was shockingly bad for a player as blessed as LaRon, often not only failing to bring down his man, but taking shocking angles and blowing the coverage completely. His signature hit was becoming the gutless late hit out of bounds, incurring dumbass penalty's that doubly hit his teammates. It didn't matter which safety position he played, when the personal dedication wasn't there, he was on a loser to begin with. Just another starting safety in this league rated highly only by Redskin fans.

2010, a light finally went on with LaRon. He started putting football first, totally dedicating himself to his craft. By all accounts, he become a a real dedicated film studier, and worked as hard as anyone in the weight room and on the practice field. And it was really beginning to show on the field of play. If there was a more dominating, fearsome SS in the NFL through the first 9 games of 2010 I'd like to hear of him. 2 or 3 times he was in double figures for tackling through that spell. He was a PB certainty the level he was playing at.

Then we get to the achiles njury and subsequent hammi that's more or less gona' write off LaRon Landry's 2011 and 2012 season's in DC if we keep him; through nothing else but a return to that self centred, stubborn arrogance resurfacing that puts himself above his teamamtes and coaches.

Pretty easy to see why people think the 'old' Landry has reared it's ugly head again.

I honestly thought his attitude had changed under Shanahan. Heck, I thought the whole culture had changed. But as Shanahan's finding out with the Davis/ Williams disgrace last year, and now this continued B/S of a player dictating to his team what's going to happen; he's not totally got that iron rod rule that he thought he had in place yet.

And FWIW, the only person I've read, certainly within this thread, that's used the term 'cancer' when it comes to LaRon, is yourself. Personal aside, but I do wish folk would think on the connotations of that word before they sling it around so freely.

Hail.

My favorite ES poster (hope all is well brother). I respectfully disagree and I would appreciate if the agenda setting stopped around here. If we talk facts LaRon has suffered from an unstable work environment like many of his fellow teammates (and ex teammates who have moved on).

In 2007 he was named a pro bowl alternate at S. You stated that he has been a complete waste of God Given ability. Here is the link to support my claim -> http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/jason-la-canfora/three-redskins-make-pro-bowl.html

In 2008 when the emasculated coach took over he was kept out of position and still had an average season with 49 tackles (playing 30 yards from the LOS). While he may not have filled the stat sheet he was apart of game changing plays like his pass breakup against NO that sealed our victory against the Saints. He and Fred Smoot's gang tackle against the Eagles WR the last game of the season. Seems like the typical Redskin way of fitting a circle in a square peg hole. LaRon isn't a FS in the NFL. The leadership never addressed the position.

In 2009 he had a better season statistically but openly expressed his discomfort playing FS. Poor angles and missed tackles plagued him that season. LaRon was never brought to DC to play FS. We knew this and the rest of the league exposed it openly and often that year.

In 2010 when a true leader and proven winner was back at the helm he spoke openly of being impressed with LaRon and moved back to his natural position. We all know what happened that year Gibbs. He didn't seem like a waste of God Given ability when he played his natural position. He has been labeled by many around the League as THE BEST in the box safety (Gruden/Bowen).

In 6 games this past season I can name a series of game changing plays that our offense couldn't capitalize off of. There was one in the first Dallas game and a couple in the first Philly game. In conclusion I want to reiterate what I stated in my original post. When you analyze the facts he hasn't been a God given waste or a cancer. He suffered from the lack of stability this organization exhibited before Mike and Bruce took over.

I think its very telling another fact is being brushed under the radar here. HE DOESN'T WANT A BIG CONTRACT. He is perfectly fine with a year deal + incentives to prove his worth to the TEAM. LaRon has never separated himself or made himself out to be bigger than the team.

Find a LaRon Landry quote were he sound like DeAngelo Hall or Albert Haynesworth?

HAIL!

[2cents]

This is exactly what I feel the future holds.

While I'm at it, I'd like to mention a concern my gut currently holds.

Under Mike Shanahan, this team has constantly progressed. However, I think Carlos Rogers situation will haunt us moving forward. I get the feeling that he's talking to Redskins players, saying "I told ya so" and putting much effort, at least whatever possible, into the dismantle & sabotage of this team. I believe Carlos has the ear of Laron who will soon join him in San Francisco. In an act of disapproval, I believe Mike Shanahan will force Laron Landry to stay in Washington, out of spite. Without surgery, LL cuold ruin his career. Lets hope not many others will join CR & LL in "the walk". And lets pray this is not the beginning of the end of, what I currently see as, a great rebuild.

As tough as this rebuild has/will be, this could be a Mike Singletary-type situation. Shanahan has made much progress... If he bails, someone will win with the team he has built.

Don't give up on us, Mike.. I believe!

I thik you vastly over rate Carlos' place when he was here. I get the impression not too many guys were sad to see him go, but were glad to see him take his attitude with him. If he can talk LaRon into thinking it is horrible here, then I don't want a guy who is that mentally soft on the team anyway.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

High praise indeed Skinz. Not sure I deserve it, but I appreciate it. And your thoughts as always, even if I disagree on this one.

I'll respond to individual season's if you like later, but for now I'm fixing to leave here for a super crazy afternoon and evening running errands and then attending a semi-final of my other sporting passion, my home town soccer team.

For now, I don't have the time to respond in full.

Hail.

[Skinzfever2010]

High praise indeed Skinz. Not sure I deserve it, but I appreciate it. And your thoughts as always, even if I disagree on this one.

I'll respond to individual season's if you like later, but for now I'm fixing to leave here for a super crazy afternoon and evening running errands and then attending a semi-final of my other sporting passion, my home town soccer team.

For now, I don't have the time to respond in full.

Hail.

I understand. I'm off to class. Hopefully my work load isn't to much and I can get on tonight. Good day Sir

[KDawg]

Here's a social experiment... Here are some numbers for safeties...

They are per season...

You can probably guess, strictly on tackle/sack numbers, who is a SS vs. FS, as I didn't separate them for this...

A: 80% of possible games played, .8 INT, 1.1 sacks, 6.2 PD, 76.4 tackles, 1.2 FF

B: 87% of games played, 1.1 INT, .25 sacks, 4.8 PD, 85.8 tackles, .66 FF

C: 53% of games played, 2 INT, 1 sack, 5 PD, 43.5 tackles, .5 FF (ALL PRO SELECTION)

D: 100% of games played, 3.5 INT, 0 sack, 6.5 PD, 83.5 tackles, 1 FF

E: 76% of games played, 2 INT, 0 sack, 5.75 PD, 59.5 tackles, .25 FF

F: 100% of games played, 3.4 INT, .4 sack, 8.6 PD, 75.4 tackles, .71 FF

G: 96% of games played, 2.6 INT, .6 sack, 7.8 PD, 64.6 tackles, 1 FF

H: 94% of games played, 1.5 INT, .91 sacks, 7 PD, 60.5 tackles, .5 FF

I: 98% of games played, 2.5 INT, 0 sack, 5.8 PD, 34.6 tackles, .16 FF

Now, do me a favor, rank these guys in the order you'd want them

In fact, just pick the top 5. In order.

[S.T.real,lights,out]

Give me D, F or G.

And what the heck i "I" doing?? 98% of games player and only 34.6 tackles? I would assume that a FS but only 34.6 seems crazy low.

For me its the amount of games played..whats the point of having an all pro safety that impacts the game when he's in but misses 47% of games. No thanks i would rather have an above average guy who doesn't miss games. And no Reid is not above average he is well below average in my book.

[KDawg]

Give me D, F or G.

And what the heck i "I" doing?? 98% of games player and only 34.6 tackles? I would assume that a FS but only 34.6 seems crazy low.

I'm sure you understood, but just to reiterate, it's per season numbers

For me its the amount of games played..whats the point of having an all pro safety that impacts the game when he's in but misses 47% of games. No thanks i would rather have an above average guy who doesn't miss games. And no Reid is not above average he is well below average in my book.

That's a big part of it for me, too. I'd take, in order: D, F, G, H, C (which is unfair to you guys, because I know who this one is )

---------- Post added January-25th-2012 at 08:59 AM ----------

My favorite ES poster (hope all is well brother).

Undoubtedly one of my own as well. Sorry this is an OT post. But it's always nice to tell/hear about someone you respect or respects you.

[KDawg]

For the record, since I'm not sure if I'll get to post this later, I'll post who's who.

In fact, all of those were drafted between 2006-2011 in the first round of the NFL Draft. The only omission is Brandon Meriweather. Why? Because he's a moron.

A: Laron Landry (6th overall, 2007): 80% of possible games played, .8 INT, 1.1 sacks, 6.2 PD, 76.4 tackles, 1.2 FF

B: Donte Whitner (8th overall, 2006): 87% of games played, 1.1 INT, .25 sacks, 4.8 PD, 85.8 tackles, .66 FF

C: Eric Berry (5th overall, 2010): 53% of games played, 2 INT, 1 sack, 5 PD, 43.5 tackles, .5 FF (ALL PRO SELECTION)

D: Earl Thomas (14th overall, 2010): 100% of games played, 3.5 INT, 0 sack, 6.5 PD, 83.5 tackles, 1 FF

E: Kenny Phillips (31st overall, 2008): 76% of games played, 2 INT, 0 sack, 5.75 PD, 59.5 tackles, .25 FF

F: Michael Griffin (19th overall, 2007):100% of games played, 3.4 INT, .4 sack, 8.6 PD, 75.4 tackles, .71 FF

G: Reggie Nelson (21st overall, 2007): 96% of games played, 2.6 INT, .6 sack, 7.8 PD, 64.6 tackles, 1 FF

H: Michael Huff (7th overall, 2006): 94% of games played, 1.5 INT, .91 sacks, 7 PD, 60.5 tackles, .5 FF

I: Jason Allen (16th overall, 2006): 98% of games played, 2.5 INT, 0 sack, 5.8 PD, 34.6 tackles, .16 FF

I would honestly take five guys on this list over LaRon.

Thomas, Griffin, Huff, Berry, Nelson.

[RiggosMohawk]

Deleted. KDawg posted while I was typing.

[Skins4life88]

Maybe he got a second and third opinion and the advice was that he didn't need surgery but to rest and rehab.

[S.T.real,lights,out]

F: Michael Griffin (19th overall, 2007):100% of games played, 3.4 INT, .4 sack, 8.6 PD, 75.4 tackles, .71 FF

Isn't he a FA this year??

[The Batman]

If you have heart problems and one of the best doctors in the country says "Do procedure X" umm...don't you do it?

http://www.lewisblackman.net/

Not necessarily. Does Landry's surgery carry the same risks as Blackman's surgery and recovery process? No. But just because someone says you SHOULD have a surgical procedure doesn't mean that you AUTOMATICALLY go do it, especially if it's avoidable.

If it is true that the doctors believe he has osteophytes on the back of his calcaneus that are aggravating that tendon, it's not entirely accurate for them to be classifying it as an Achilles' tendon injury. The tendon itself in that case is not the problem, it's the spurs that need to be removed. In that case, yes, he probably should undergo the procedure, as the bone spurs are not likely to stop aggravating the problem anytime soon. However, in previous years, his problems have been reported to be a series of microtears in the tendon (commonly associated with excessive strain put on the tissue secondary to steroid use, which has been another favorite target for Landry's detractors) that may have as good or better results long-term if he uses more conservative modalities to treat it. Again, a tendinosis is NOT HEALING. That's the problem. No amount of rest will fix that. They must attempt to induce inflammation to promote a healing response if that's what is going on in his tendon, and that may well be what he's trying to do.

My point is we simply don't know enough about the situation, even with medical training, from an outsider's perspective to make a judgment call on this either way.

[fdarugar]

I saw something on rotoworld earlier that the Raiders are considering Franchising Bush and using Darren McFadden as trade bait. Would it be a completely Madden douche idea to franchise Landry and trade him for DMC? Just thought I would throw the idea out there...

[S.T.real,lights,out]

I saw something on rotoworld earlier that the Raiders are considering Franchising Bush and using Darren McFadden as trade bait. Would it be a completely Madden douche idea to franchise Landry and trade him for DMC? Just thought I would throw the idea out there...

Wow, i cant imagine they would do that. IMO DMC when healthy is one of the best in the league. But idk if anyone is going to touch LL until they know he can play at a high level again. :whoknows:

[fdarugar]

Wow, i cant imagine they would do that. IMO DMC when healthy is one of the best in the league. But idk if anyone is going to touch LL until they know he can play at a high level again. :whoknows:

Check it out...

http://rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4649/darren-mcfadden

Seems like they are in a similar place with DMC as we are with LL, injury prone with tons of talent.

[S.T.real,lights,out]

Check it out...

http://rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4649/darren-mcfadden

Seems like they are in a similar place with DMC as we are with LL, injury prone with tons of talent.

Yea, i can understand them wanting to get more picks. Dont see us being someone to give them up tho. Maybe a team stacked with picks like the Pats might. IDK. Think he would be a good fit in a place that throws the ball a lot.

[grhqofb5]

Here's a social experiment... Here are some numbers for safeties...

They are per season...

You can probably guess, strictly on tackle/sack numbers, who is a SS vs. FS, as I didn't separate them for this...

A: 80% of possible games played, .8 INT, 1.1 sacks, 6.2 PD, 76.4 tackles, 1.2 FF

B: 87% of games played, 1.1 INT, .25 sacks, 4.8 PD, 85.8 tackles, .66 FF

C: 53% of games played, 2 INT, 1 sack, 5 PD, 43.5 tackles, .5 FF (ALL PRO SELECTION)

D: 100% of games played, 3.5 INT, 0 sack, 6.5 PD, 83.5 tackles, 1 FF

E: 76% of games played, 2 INT, 0 sack, 5.75 PD, 59.5 tackles, .25 FF

F: 100% of games played, 3.4 INT, .4 sack, 8.6 PD, 75.4 tackles, .71 FF

G: 96% of games played, 2.6 INT, .6 sack, 7.8 PD, 64.6 tackles, 1 FF

H: 94% of games played, 1.5 INT, .91 sacks, 7 PD, 60.5 tackles, .5 FF

I: 98% of games played, 2.5 INT, 0 sack, 5.8 PD, 34.6 tackles, .16 FF

Now, do me a favor, rank these guys in the order you'd want them

In fact, just pick the top 5. In order.

I'll take F, A, G as my top three.

Then C, B, D, I, H, E.