Roster Turnover and Rebuilding

[HailB&G]

I think by the time the Skins kicked off against the Giants this season, only 15 players remained from the team Shahahan inherited. That number is likely to be 8-10 before the next season begins. Another good draft, and 4-5 decent FA pickups in the offseason, and this will be a team that has been totally scrubbed of almost all traces of Gibbs 2.0 and Zorerato.

[Henry]

This is a great thread. I have nothing useful to add but thanks for the info/analysis.

[skins2323]

I expect to see more turnover this offseason, though it wont be as much as yrs past simply bc we are finally a young team.

I like Smith and it was a feel good story, but I am not sure how I feel about him going into next season as our RT. I think I would rather Monty as our starting C, and to draft a RT with whatever the highest picks we have left after our wheeling and dealing. A guy like Nate Potter comes to mind in the 3rd round.

I agree that Hurt played pretty darn well stepping in as a 7th rounder, but again I am not sure how I feel about him starting at LG next year. I would MUCH rather signing Carl Nicks with our boadload of cap space, even if to a big contract, and using Hurt as depth. In a perfect world, this is my starting OL next yr and their backups...

LT - Williams

LG- Nicks

C- Montgomery/Lichensteiger

RG- Chester

RT- Potter (3rd RD)

Reserve OT - Smith, Palumbus

Reserve OG - Hurt, Monty/Lichensteiger (whoever loses the camp battle), Palumbus

Reserve OC - Monty/Lichensteiger

I would be very, VERY comfortable with those starters AND reserves!

[LD0506]

One aspect that I keep in mind, we are trying to build depth where there was none. Other teams have the luxury of bringing late round/undrafteds/etc up slowly, coaching them up, drilling them on their tendencies, etc, because they didn't have the roster destroyed by years of mismanagement. Now we not only have to try and assemble starters but that second tier as well, we had young players see gametime that wouldn't have elsewhere, because we had no choice.

An awful lot of effort has been invested by the coaches and FO that will not pay off right away, that's the nature of the beast. It is just that kind of longterm view that has been lacking for a long time, and now we have to suck it up and pay the price of remaking this team.

We are better now than last year, lightyears beyond the dismal days of Vinnieness, but it is a process that will take time and effort, not just work but work done intelligently, done well in the context of the larger plan. IMO this is just one more of those things. You grind 'em through a season, see who stepped up, who can be fixed and who can't, then start over in minicamps with new contenders, see what shakes out. I would definitely defer to KDawg and others here that know more than I do, but I saw some potential at times, saw a couple guys that will be in camp and get a shot to improve their game. That beats the hell out of, "We're stuck with Rabach again for another season...... Heyer <smh> what the hell is he doing on the roster?"

I'd also like to think that we are moving beyond the "Who'd want to play for that joke of a franchise?" perception, so that may widen the FA pool as well.

[BeefJerky]

Quibble... The o-line ended the season playing strongly. We had long stretches in the beginning and middle that were scarily bad.

I agree we looked alot better towards the end. I'm not saying they played like the hogs, but they def improved over the past few years. Smith, Hurt and Ploumbus stepped in and played well.

[acuratl1984]

Yea, too bad Cerrato was such a terrible GM. Beside hitting on Orakpo (but this was a choice even a kid would make)

If he didn't take Devin Thomas and took Jordy Nelson ..... (only had one successful year in college)

If he didn't take Malcolm Kelly (I'll admit I liked this pick because I was high on him.) but these players went after Kelly -> Ray Rice? Jamaal Charles? Terrell Thomas?

IMO the Devin Thomas pick should have been Nelson... I blame Cerrato for that..

[pjfootballer]

And this is the reason I think the franchise is headed in the right direction. They have been able to get younger at just about every position as I'm sure this thread will be able to prove. Not only that but 11 out of 12 players drafted last year played. The 12th was Jenkins who was injured before the season started. I can't wait until the draft.

Aldrick Robinson didn't actually play in a game, but was on the PS all year.

Sorry, didn't see the replies to the already. My bad.

I too am excited for the promise of some of these players and I'm looking forward to what Mike and Bruce can do with a full offseason after what they did in an abbreviated offseason.

[redskinss]

this is kind of a random thought but i dont look at what were doing as a rebuild, more like just a build.

for a team to be rebuilding they have to have a combination of aging talent and recent success.

if were rebuilding its gotta be the longest one in history.

[newday]

I think your looking around a 25 % roster turnover this off-season, and maybe similar the next to get the 53 to a sufficient standard to both challenge and compete over a 16 game season. We've gotten younger and faster, but we still have a LOT of work ahead of us.

Hail.

I'm with GibbsHogHeaven on this. Which of the current OL players would be starters with the Giants, Niners or Patriots? Maybe Trent. That too maybe at RT. The rest might just make it as backups.

We all want to be optimistic. And the staff is definitely trying hard. But it will take a lot longer to get an elite O-line in place. The Giants, Patriots and Niners have great lines. Lot of high draft picks among them. They are BIG, nimble and work really well together. We have so many holes right now, we can't afford to focus just on the O-line. Affordable high-quality Free Agents are rare and there are only so many draft picks you can use on the OL each year. I think it'll take another 3 years to get an O-line that is in the top 25% of the league, has depth, and plays well together. I'd be thrilled if even 1 of the current OL players outside Trent make it to the elite level.

In 2012, if it's going to be BPA in the draft, we might need to spend a high pick on an OT. Trent could be a headcase and may need to get pushed with legit competition. Jamaal may not recover well. We may need to move Trent to RT and draft an elite LT, or just draft a good RT. And hopefully try a Center in the later rounds.

[Mercuryrising]

Smith actually scared me. His kick step didn't look good at all, and he seemed to turn his shoulders too quickly and allowed for the DE to knife by him quite a few times. When kick stepping in pass pro, you generally don't want to turn your shoulders until the 7 yard deep mark, he seemed to turn at 4. That opens a lane. Again... I wish I had film on this to show what I'm talking about, because doing it from memory can be a bit hazy. But I do know it's a thought I had while watching him.

Very interesting. I actually take encouragement from your break down. Sounds like it is all technique issues and not physical skill set limitations.

Now get your lazy ass over to his house to work with him every day this off-season! (just kidding)

---------- Post added January-19th-2012 at 11:59 AM ----------

Yea, too bad Cerrato was such a terrible GM. Beside hitting on Orakpo (but this was a choice even a kid would make)

If he didn't take Devin Thomas and took Jordy Nelson ..... (only had one successful year in college)

If he didn't take Malcolm Kelly (I'll admit I liked this pick because I was high on him.) but these players went after Kelly -> Ray Rice? Jamaal Charles? Terrell Thomas?

IMO the Devin Thomas pick should have been Nelson... I blame Cerrato for that..

I really wanted us to take Jordy Nelson, and still wish that we had. Having said that, once we traded down, Jordy Nelson went off the board before our first pick, which ended up being D. Thomas.

[Thirtyfive2seven]

Well, Aldrick Robinson never played, and was never active for a game, but he did get brought up from the practice squad at the end there.

I completely forgot about him. Thanks. Well still 10-12 ain't bad

[The Robert Griffin Experience]

I thought he played teams in the finale?

[skinny21]

I thought he played teams in the finale?

Just activate for the final game I believe, and this was because someone tried to get him from our PS.

Don't recall Thompson getting PT... I know he went to PS, then active, then repeat, but I don't recall seeing him on the field, though I could very easily be wrong about that. Anyone know for sure?

[skinsfan4128]

I would suspect a move or two coming along the Oline. Willie Smith played well in place of Trent Williams, even if he was clearly showing he was an undrafted rookie. And Maurice Hurt played exceedingly well at LG for being a low round draft pick. With that said, Will Montgomery did his best impersonation of former C Casey Rabach for most of the season. I think Shanny could be looking for a new LG so that he could move Lichtensteiger back to his more natural position of C. The real questions for me is a) do we stay with J. Brown at RT with two injury-filled, subpar seasons, do we draft or go free agency to acquire a LT in the event that Silverback decides to hit the herb again, and c) do we target a free agent or draft pick for LG (Carl Nicks of New Orleans comes to mind)? I think Willie Smith, should he continue to progress in training camp this year could be a serviceable T on either side of the line and eliminate the need to sign a FA (however, I would hope Shanny and co. draft one to add competition). If they plan to move Lichtensteiger to C, then a FA LG is needed as I'm not sold on Hurt as the full time starting LG. A RT is needed regardless, due to the fact that Brown has not been able to regain his form and stay healthy.

:helmet:

[Laxpunk2006]

Yea, too bad Cerrato was such a terrible GM. Beside hitting on Orakpo (but this was a choice even a kid would make)

If he didn't take Devin Thomas and took Jordy Nelson ..... (only had one successful year in college)

If he didn't take Malcolm Kelly (I'll admit I liked this pick because I was high on him.) but these players went after Kelly -> Ray Rice? Jamaal Charles? Terrell Thomas?

IMO the Devin Thomas pick should have been Nelson... I blame Cerrato for that..

Cerrato was a clown and in hindsight botched that draft but in all fairness many had Thomas as the top ranked WR in the draft and a first round pick.

[Win4us]

One aspect that I keep in mind, we are trying to build depth where there was none. Other teams have the luxury of bringing late round/undrafteds/etc up slowly, coaching them up, drilling them on their tendencies, etc, because they didn't have the roster destroyed by years of mismanagement. Now we not only have to try and assemble starters but that second tier as well, we had young players see gametime that wouldn't have elsewhere, because we had no choice.

An awful lot of effort has been invested by the coaches and FO that will not pay off right away, that's the nature of the beast. It is just that kind of longterm view that has been lacking for a long time, and now we have to suck it up and pay the price of remaking this team.

We are better now than last year, lightyears beyond the dismal days of Vinnieness, but it is a process that will take time and effort, not just work but work done intelligently, done well in the context of the larger plan. IMO this is just one more of those things. You grind 'em through a season, see who stepped up, who can be fixed and who can't, then start over in minicamps with new contenders, see what shakes out. I would definitely defer to KDawg and others here that know more than I do, but I saw some potential at times, saw a couple guys that will be in camp and get a shot to improve their game. That beats the hell out of, "We're stuck with Rabach again for another season...... Heyer <smh> what the hell is he doing on the roster?"

I'd also like to think that we are moving beyond the "Who'd want to play for that joke of a franchise?" perception, so that may widen the FA pool as well.

This is a great post LDO506, and a fun thread btw.

Agree 100% that this will be a process and can't be covered properly in just another offseason. Using atleast 3rd rounders, if not higher on the o-line is light years better than Shanny's old way of hoping 6th and 7th rounders "pan out" and needs to start this year and the majority after.

We're gonna have to use FA to fill some spots this offseason, though i can't see too many quality guys being let go by their respective teams. The o-line and QB ONLY interchange through the course of a game if there's an injury so those areas are best served in the draft between rds 1-4 and let them mature together.

[MrJL]

I'm with GibbsHogHeaven on this. Which of the current OL players would be starters with the Giants, Niners or Patriots? Maybe Trent. That too maybe at RT. The rest might just make it as backups.

We all want to be optimistic. And the staff is definitely trying hard. But it will take a lot longer to get an elite O-line in place. The Giants, Patriots and Niners have great lines. Lot of high draft picks among them. They are BIG, nimble and work really well together. We have so many holes right now, we can't afford to focus just on the O-line. Affordable high-quality Free Agents are rare and there are only so many draft picks you can use on the OL each year. I think it'll take another 3 years to get an O-line that is in the top 25% of the league, has depth, and plays well together. I'd be thrilled if even 1 of the current OL players outside Trent make it to the elite level.

In 2012, if it's going to be BPA in the draft, we might need to spend a high pick on an OT. Trent could be a headcase and may need to get pushed with legit competition. Jamaal may not recover well. We may need to move Trent to RT and draft an elite LT, or just draft a good RT. And hopefully try a Center in the later rounds.

I wouldn't mind trying to upgrade the Oline some more if we can't get a QB. It's still more of a need than a corner I think

[Voice_of_Reason]

You know a lot more about the technique of o line play than I do, KDawg, but isn't that a correctable problem? Can't coaches drill that tendency out of him?

One other thing. The young guys on the team were working at a serious disadvantage last year because the lack of an off season. There were 14 rookies on the 53 man roster last year, or 26% of the team. That's a pretty high percentage in general.

And NONE of them had the benefit of any of the normal rookie attended OTAs, Mini-Camps, etc. And I think none but Kerrigan got their playbook until training camp. (If I'm not mistaken, the first round players were the only ones who SQUEAKED by with the one day court injunction thing)

So guys like Smith, Robinson, Gomes, Hurt, Hankerson, etc. didn't have the normal coaching that a Rookie would have.

I would not expect that every one of the rookies will return, but I wouldn't be surprised if, since a number of them got significant playing experience, now with a full off season, OTAs, access to coaches, trainers, strength coaches, practices and mini-camps that there is significant improvement from the second year guys. That even includes guys who played well, like Kerrigan, Helu and Royster.