Where does Shanahan stand in Redskins history and with you if he is successful at rebuilding this team?

[Darth Tater]

Coach Peyton Manning still plays for the colts

Yep:) but I thought he was the OC? BTW, the Steelers also had pretty much the same guy at QB even though the coaches changed and I think the same DC.

[Crazy Levi]

To take the question to the next level, say Mike builds the team but doesn't quite get the Super Bowl championship. His son takes over and wins 2 or 3, if not more. Where does Kyle land in Redskins lore?

I see everybody started drinking early tonight!

[Hitman21ST]

I see everybody started drinking early tonight!

That may be but what does that have to do with the question?

[Springfield]

To take the question to the next level, say Mike builds the team but doesn't quite get the Super Bowl championship. His son takes over and wins 2 or 3, if not more. Where does Kyle land in Redskins lore?

Kyle will rank above Gibbs only if he wins more Super Bowls than Gibbs. Assuming that it is Kyle that takes over a well build team (built by daddy), and he wins 4 Super Bowls, it will be because he walked into a good situation. If Kyle takes over and only wins one Super Bowl, he'll fall below Gibbs.

[Crazy Levi]

That may be but what does that have to do with the question?

Just all the fanciful talk of Super Bowls in multiples :-)

Shanny wins a Super Bowl, he's #2 to Gibbs but one of the greatest coaches in NFL history. Like I said, nobody has ever won two with different teams. Hope it happens. And that ain't the Champagne talkin!

Happy New Year's everybody and be safe. I'm having my gal over for a couple lobsters, then we are heading out for a party. Have fun!

[88Comrade2000]

The only way Shanny passes Gibbs is if he wins 4 superbowls and that isn't happening. He might not even get to a superbowl with the Skins, let alone win one. If Shanny is able to turn things around; then he will be #4 after Joe Gibbs, Ray Flaherty and George Allen. Shanny wins a Superbowl he will pass George Allen. He wins 3, he passes Ray Flaherty but will still be a notch below Gibbs unless he wins 4.

Right now, Shanny is closer to Norv than anything else.

[joeknows]

Kyle will rank above Gibbs only if he wins more Super Bowls than Gibbs. Assuming that it is Kyle that takes over a well build team (built by daddy), and he wins 4 Super Bowls, it will be because he walked into a good situation. If Kyle takes over and only wins one Super Bowl, he'll fall below Gibbs.

he wouldnt be walking into anything .... he would be inheriting a team he helped build....

[RichmondRedskin88]

Shanny wins X1 SB=Ranks behind Gibbs & Allen for 3rd to me. Although Allen didn't win SB Xll,I have high regard/respect for him and what he did with the "Over the Hill Gang"

Shanny wins X2 SB's=Shanny immediately bumps Allen for 2nd place & behind Gibbs.

Shanny wins X3 SB's=Shanny becomes tied with our beloved Joe Gibbs. I won't rank him higher because Shanny will have probably done it with the same QB. Gibbs will be the Boss who did it with 3 different QB's, which is more impressive still, imo)

Shanny wins X4 SB's=Shanny becomes Redskins Legend and top dog in DC. Also become a 6X SB winning head coach and Snyder has him coaching here, when he's older than Paterno...lol)

If we wins 6 the White House will be renamed "Shanahan's vacation home".

[illone]

To me shanny is just another coach in a long line of failures hired by Snyder.

It would take quite a bit for him to win me over, persay. I'll always be a fan of the B&G, but Shanny is nothing special just because he coaches here.

[Thinking Skins]

This thread is hilarious. I'm sitting here wondering if he'll be here to finish his contract and people are talking the possibility of him being better than Gibbs? I'm not sure I'd put him above Norv. If he wins a ring and we have a dominant team like the 83 Skins, then I'll give him some credit. But its hard to expect something like that to happen, especially when he's giving comments like "this job is harder than I thought". Lets just see if he can ever get us to the playoffs before we start talking SBs and Gibbs (I or II) comparisons.

[2006Skins]

If Mike rebuilds this team the way I think he's rebuilding this team and being a super bowl contender for 5 -10 years than I put him with Gibbs. He had to tear this team down to build them back up with terrible history predating him

[joeknows]

This thread is hilarious. I'm sitting here wondering if he'll be here to finish his contract and people are talking the possibility of him being better than Gibbs? I'm not sure I'd put him above Norv. If he wins a ring and we have a dominant team like the 83 Skins, then I'll give him some credit. But its hard to expect something like that to happen, especially when he's giving comments like "this job is harder than I thought". Lets just see if he can ever get us to the playoffs before we start talking SBs and Gibbs (I or II) comparisons.

i havent seen a quote of him saying "this job is harder than I thought"..... i did see him quoted as saying the team was more devoid of talent than he expected.

while im happy that you find this thread amusing ... the point of the thread was to provide mid week entertainment and create topic of conversation based upon a what if scenario.

while i realize that shanahan has much left to prove.... i think some people are being especially hard on him because we arent going to the playoffs this year.... did anyone really think he was going to come in and immediately turn this franchise into contenders this soon?

if you thought this team would be turned around this fast you are delusional as well as just maybe football ignorant < not you specifically, just that mindset>

personally i think this team is absolutely headed in the right direction. patience is necessary and eventually we shall see the fruits of their labor. but i think the most important thing that you and a few others here are missing is that i dont think anyone in their right mind would currently rank shanahan with any of the greats of this franchise.... so i offered the WHAT IF scenario... and btw you used the term dominant 83 skins.... hmm didnt we lose the superbowl to the raiders that season? if you use the term dominant skins i think it probably would be best used referring to the 91 skins..... just sayin...

[davidterzian8]

As a young fan myself I never got to witness Joe Gibbs Superbowl victories. If Shanahan turns around this team and wins a Superbowl I think he could be considered a better coach than Gibbs because he also won three superbowls but would have won them with separate teams. Giving him the edge.

As for who is the greater Redskins coach that title would still belong to Gibbs. Winning a Superbowl is no easy task but winning three is next to impossible. A championship is the most valuable thing a coach can bring to a team and with Gibbs bringing three no Redskins coach should be considered better than Gibbs until they tie or surpass his milestone.

[Skinzfever2010]

When I think about the Redskins situation, I have to take a look at other hires/rebuilding efforts in the league. Harbaugh took a team with a terrible record, and in one season, those guys won their division, are in the playoffs, and seem to have brought out the best in Alex Smith. Jim Schwartz completely turned around the Lions after having been hired in 09, and after two seasons having a losing record. In Harbaugh's case, he inherited a team with lots of talent, but that had had horrible, horrible coaching. The difference has been really pronounced, and I give Harbaugh and his staff a lot of credit for this turnaround. In Shanahan's case, unfortunately, he inherited a team with a severe talent deficit across the board, and one in serious need of an attitude/identity transformation. This was always going to be a project that required time. Schwartz got things going in his third year, and I expect Shanahan to do the same.

Thus far, he has rid the team of underperforming, aged players and replaced them with young kids with real talent. The only problem I have with Shanahan's team-building efforts have to do with the quarterback position. The McNabb trade was a terrible idea, but I'm sure it's one that he regrets. And Grossman has simply proven to be what everyone knew he was ----- unreliable. There's either a quarterback (or quarterbacks) in this year's draft that the team is targeting, or Allen and Shanahan were waiting to make another move of some kind with a trade. I don't see Grossman starting for this team next year, even if a rookie quarterback is signed.

I do think Shanahan is on the right track with building a team of talented, young players who will develop together. And i like the fact that the free agent acquisitions have predominantly been low-profile guys who focus more on team than on themselves. This off-season should definitely be focused more on offense, and on doing something about the squad's secondary.

Bull ****, he inherited a top 10 defense with a pro bowl CB that ends up in SF. He should have focused on the our long standing problem which has been offense and he didn't.

[skinzplay]

When I think about the Redskins situation, I have to take a look at other hires/rebuilding efforts in the league. Harbaugh took a team with a terrible record, and in one season, those guys won their division, are in the playoffs, and seem to have brought out the best in Alex Smith. Jim Schwartz completely turned around the Lions after having been hired in 09, and after two seasons having a losing record. In Harbaugh's case, he inherited a team with lots of talent, but that had had horrible, horrible coaching. The difference has been really pronounced, and I give Harbaugh and his staff a lot of credit for this turnaround. In Shanahan's case, unfortunately, he inherited a team with a severe talent deficit across the board, and one in serious need of an attitude/identity transformation. This was always going to be a project that required time. Schwartz got things going in his third year, and I expect Shanahan to do the same.

Thus far, he has rid the team of underperforming, aged players and replaced them with young kids with real talent. The only problem I have with Shanahan's team-building efforts have to do with the quarterback position. The McNabb trade was a terrible idea, but I'm sure it's one that he regrets. And Grossman has simply proven to be what everyone knew he was ----- unreliable. There's either a quarterback (or quarterbacks) in this year's draft that the team is targeting, or Allen and Shanahan were waiting to make another move of some kind with a trade. I don't see Grossman starting for this team next year, even if a rookie quarterback is signed.

I do think Shanahan is on the right track with building a team of talented, young players who will develop together. And i like the fact that the free agent acquisitions have predominantly been low-profile guys who focus more on team than on themselves. This off-season should definitely be focused more on offense, and on doing something about the squad's secondary.

[Skinzfever2010]

That "top 10 defense" couldn't stop anyone when it mattered, get turnovers or sacks, and was woefully inept. That "pro bowl corner" wanted out, wasn't doing anything with the team, and was generally unhappu. We needed help everywhere. Shanahan started with the unit that needed the least amount of help (the defense) and solved most of its issues. Now he's doing it with the offense.

They barely got turnovers this year and stopped anyone when it mattered. Mind you this year they were supposed to have improved. He could have focused his energy on what was always our weakness and got younger and quicker on D. He didn't need to gut the defense at all.

[Hitman21ST]

Bull ****, he inherited a top 10 defense with a pro bowl CB that ends up in SF. He should have focused on the our long standing problem which has been offense and he didn't.

That "top 10 defense" couldn't stop anyone when it mattered, get turnovers or sacks, and was woefully inept. That "pro bowl corner" wanted out, wasn't doing anything with the team, and was generally unhappu. We needed help everywhere. Shanahan started with the unit that needed the least amount of help (the defense) and solved most of its issues. Now he's doing it with the offense.

[Skinzfever2010]

That "top 10 defense" couldn't stop anyone when it mattered, get turnovers or sacks, and was woefully inept. That "pro bowl corner" wanted out, wasn't doing anything with the team, and was generally unhappu. We needed help everywhere. Shanahan started with the unit that needed the least amount of help (the defense) and solved most of its issues. Now he's doing it with the offense.

double*

[skinzplay]

Skinzfever, in '09 the team had the #10 ranked defense. This year, it's #13, though I'm not sure how things shake out after all of today's action. That's not much of a drop-off during a rebuilding process. And consider this: would you rather begin developing new talent on defense or continue relying on these as your starters:

Defensive End: Phillip Daniels, Andre Carter (depth: Lorenzo Alexander, Reynaldo Wynn)

Defensive Tackle: Haynesworth, Cornelius Griffin (depth: Kedric Golston, Anthony Montgomery)

LB (Weak): Rocky (depth: Robert Henson, HB Blades)

LB (Middle): London (depth: same as above)

LB (Strong): Orakpo (depth: Chris Wilson, Robert Henson)

SS: Chris Horton (depth: Doughty)

FS: LaRon (depth: Kareem Moore)

CB: Hall, Rogers (depth: Justin Tryon, Smoot, Barnes, Westbrook)

I think it was high time that the team moved on from some of those players, particularly along the line. You don't move a team forward by continuing to rely on old players. You draft the talent, develop it, and phase out your veterans if their level of performance warrants a demotion or release. Take a look at that starting defensive lineup. The entire defensive line was laughable. The secondary was suspect then, and continues to be so, but I expect that to be addressed, in earnest, this off-season.

[Skinzfever2010]

Skinzfever, in '09 the team had the #10 ranked defense. This year, it's #13, though I'm not sure how things shake out after all of today's action. That's not much of a drop-off during a rebuilding process. And consider this: would you rather begin developing new talent on defense or continue relying on these as your starters:

Defensive End: Phillip Daniels, Andre Carter (depth: Lorenzo Alexander, Reynaldo Wynn)

Defensive Tackle: Haynesworth, Cornelius Griffin (depth: Kedric Golston, Anthony Montgomery)

LB (Weak): Rocky (depth: Robert Henson, HB Blades)

LB (Middle): London (depth: same as above)

LB (Strong): Orakpo (depth: Chris Wilson, Robert Henson)

SS: Chris Horton (depth: Doughty)

FS: LaRon (depth: Kareem Moore)

CB: Hall, Rogers (depth: Justin Tryon, Smoot, Barnes, Westbrook)

I think it was high time that the team moved on from some of those players, particularly along the line. You don't move a team forward by continuing to rely on old players. You draft the talent, develop it, and phase out your veterans if their level of performance warrants a demotion or release. Take a look at that starting defensive lineup. The entire defensive line was laughable. The secondary was suspect then, and continues to be so, but I expect that to be addressed, in earnest, this off-season.

Wrong move switching the defense in year one. All it needed was some fine tuning. The offense needed to be gutted and rebuilt from day one. He could have addressed the line adding more speed and moved LaRon to S from FS. We let Los go for what? The shiny playmaker has cost us so many plays this year.

What did our offense rank in 09?

[skinzplay]

I'm with you on that switch to the 3-4. I still have mixed feelings about that, especially since it meant Orakpo and Kerrigan being reinvented in ways that don't allow them to exploit the best of their talents.

And if you're talking about offensive rank by yards, the Skins were 22nd in 2009. This year - and i'm not sure if this weekend's games have been included yet - the team ranks 16th.

[Thinking Skins]

i havent seen a quote of him saying "this job is harder than I thought"..... i did see him quoted as saying the team was more devoid of talent than he expected.

while im happy that you find this thread amusing ... the point of the thread was to provide mid week entertainment and create topic of conversation based upon a what if scenario.

while i realize that shanahan has much left to prove.... i think some people are being especially hard on him because we arent going to the playoffs this year.... did anyone really think he was going to come in and immediately turn this franchise into contenders this soon?

if you thought this team would be turned around this fast you are delusional as well as just maybe football ignorant < not you specifically, just that mindset>

personally i think this team is absolutely headed in the right direction. patience is necessary and eventually we shall see the fruits of their labor. but i think the most important thing that you and a few others here are missing is that i dont think anyone in their right mind would currently rank shanahan with any of the greats of this franchise.... so i offered the WHAT IF scenario... and btw you used the term dominant 83 skins.... hmm didnt we lose the superbowl to the raiders that season? if you use the term dominant skins i think it probably would be best used referring to the 91 skins..... just sayin...

I mentioned the 83 Skins because I wanted to remember that Gibbs won a ring in his second year and had one of the most dominant teams in the league in his third year. By his third year, we had a legitimate dynasty set up. If not for Theisman going down in 1985, we may have had more rings. It just shows a long way from where Shanny is with this team.

[tibbidoe]

If Shanahan get us to/wins a Super Bowl, I'll put him on the shelf with George Allen, right below Joe Gibbs. More than 1 Super Bowl (won or lost), and I think he'd be on par with Gibbs.

[joeknows]

I mentioned the 83 Skins because I wanted to remember that Gibbs won a ring in his second year and had one of the most dominant teams in the league in his third year. By his third year, we had a legitimate dynasty set up. If not for Theisman going down in 1985, we may have had more rings. It just shows a long way from where Shanny is with this team.

ok i can buy that, but i dont think the Gibbs era is a fair comparison firstly because we all know how Joe did business in the pre cap era. and we know that is impossible in todays NFL.

i think if shanahan can turn us back into contenders, considering the state of the organization, i think he could deserve just about the same respect JG gets.... maybe not equal until the SB's start coming in but rebuilding this team isnt going to be an easy task and to turn it completely around is nothing short of miraculous.... ASSUMING OF COURSE THAT HE IS SUCCESSFUL AT IT

[Jethrodsp]

Simple.

If we get to one super bowl, third best redskin coach. Win one Super Bowl, second-best. Win 4 super bowls, best coach in redskins, and maybe NFL, history.