Yahoo: James Harrison has been suspended for one game

[MassSkinsFan]

LKB - I think I'm not describing what I was taught well either. Basically it's almost the same as what you were taught. Head up, butt down a bit, hit in the midriff, wrap and lift, drive to the ground. Point is that the point of contact is between hips and shoulders, not at the head, and I think we're both describing that.

I also agree it's time to clarify the rules. If everyone knew what was legal, and the refs could do a halfway decent job of calling it consistently, we'd have a much better product on the field.

I've really only encountered two evil players, both of whom were DTs, one in HS and one in college. Both seemed to exist to hurt whoever they could, even going so far as to take really blatant and damaging cheap shots in practice. The coaches didn't tolerate the behavior, but they continued when they could get away with it. Both guys are probably anger management alums at this point and either doing time in Federal prison or serving in their respective state legislatures.

I have a lot more respect for the guys who can punish someone on a clean hit than for a guy out there just trying to hurt people.

[Dan T.]

The problem with this new enforcement of "dirty" hits is that there is mostly no way to distinguish between a so-called "clean hit" and a "dirty hit" given the speed of the game. And by speed of the game, I'm not talking about the NFL, I'm talking about football in general. When a defender is running full speed to tackle a runner going full speed, a so-called clean hit with the shoulder pad can become a "dirty" hit with the helmet in milliseconds based on one player or the other ducking or moving. So the refs must call penalties based on randomness, with intent not a factor.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I don't think Harrison is a "dirty" player. I think he made some inflammatory statements about aiming to hurt people when he hit them, and he certainly plays right on the edge of the rules. But this is his first real incident in over a year and those incidents were borderline at best.

To me, a dirty player is someone like Andre Waters. He used to dive into piles aiming for guys' knees. Bill Romanowski was "dirty" as he lived for cheap shots and such. Hell, Joey Porter was a far dirtier Pittsburgh linebacker. Harrison is a target because he knocked out two guys in one game with borderline hits and then called the commissioner a "faggot."

This strikes me as a power play by Goodell more than anything else.

---------- Post added December-14th-2011 at 01:30 PM ----------

The problem with this new enforcement of "dirty" hits is that there is mostly no way to distinguish between a so-called "clean hit" and a "dirty hit" given the speed of the game. And by speed of the game, I'm not talking about the NFL, I'm talking about football in general. When a defender is running full speed to tackle a runner going full speed, a so-called clean hit with the shoulder pad can become a "dirty" hit with the helmet in milliseconds based on one player or the other ducking or moving. So the refs must call penalties based on randomness, with intent not a factor.

That's my issue. Under the current rules, what Harrison did was "illegal." Even the Steelers admit that. But it strikes me as analogous to one of those Southern towns that changes the speed limit on the main highway from 55 to 25 and has a cop sitting by the sign with a radar gun. He had a ball carrier running at him at full speed with the ball tucked. Suddenly, that ball carrier transformed from a running back to a quarterback. The fact is, Harrison was flagged for roughing the passer, not a helmet to helmet hit. If McCoy had kept the ball he a) would have fumbled and there would not have been a flag.

And the Goodell would have to decide whether to suspend Harrison over a play that did not draw a flag.

---------- Post added December-14th-2011 at 01:34 PM ----------

Here's a question: If London Fletcher had Harrison's history, would he be suspended for the Brady hit?

[Redskins Diehard]

Correct me if I'm wrong' date=' but I see to remember being taught to tackle by putting your facemask in the other guy's face mask and driving through them. You were told to never lead with the top of your helmet, because that's how you end up in a wheelchair, but the goal was to literally break the other dude's facemask.[/quote']

I played football into college and was never taught to tackle that way. Perfect form tackle was wrapping the legs because that is what people run with. And to focus on the waist because that is where the body is going.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I played football into college and was never taught to tackle that way. Perfect form tackle was wrapping the legs because that is what people run with. And to focus on the waist because that is where the body is going.

How do you wrap the legs? Were you taught to leave your feet to tackle?

[Redskins Diehard]

I don't think Harrison is a "dirty" player. I think he made some inflammatory statements about aiming to hurt people when he hit them' date=' and he certainly plays right on the edge of the rules. But this is his first real incident in over a year and those incidents were borderline at best.

Here's a question: If London Fletcher had Harrison's history, would he be suspended for the Brady hit?[/quote']

The players in the NFL disagree with you.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d823e921f/article/suh-would-disagree-but-peers-vote-him-nfls-dirtiest-player

Fletcher shouldn't have even been flagged on that play. He hit Brady in the ribs with a forearm before he started to slide.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

The players in the NFL disagree with you.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d823e921f/article/suh-would-disagree-but-peers-vote-him-nfls-dirtiest-player

Fletcher shouldn't have even been flagged on that play. He hit Brady in the ribs with a forearm before he started to slide.

Eh, that list basically says that 9 guys in the NFL do not like James Harrison. He seems pretty ****ing unlikeable so...yea...I can see that. Hell, he's concussed three Browns in the past 12 months. All the Browns should hate him.

I think Suh is, in fact, "dirty," in that he intentionally does stuff outside the rules all the time in order to gain an advantage. I think Courtland Finnegan is the same. I really don't like Courtland Finnegan. The rest on that list don't really bother me. Richie Incognito gets into a lot of fights after the whistle, but I don't consider that "dirty." I think Michael Oher is a dirtier lineman. He's just as chippy as Incognito and he loves diving at unsuspected linemen's legs.

[Redskins Diehard]

Eh' date=' that list basically says that 9 guys in the NFL do not like James Harrison. He seems pretty ****ing unlikeable so...yea...I can see that. Hell, he's concussed three Browns in the past 12 months. All the Browns should hate him.

I think Suh is, in fact, "dirty," in that he intentionally does stuff outside the rules all the time in order to gain an advantage. I think Courtland Finnegan is the same. I really don't like Courtland Finnegan. The rest on that list don't really bother me. Richie Incognito gets into a lot of fights after the whistle, but I don't consider that "dirty." I think Michael Oher is a dirtier lineman. He's just as chippy as Incognito and he loves diving at unsuspected linemen's legs.[/quote']

I don't think they asked "who do you dislike". The deal with launching into someone's knees is that is widely viewed as "dirty" because it will blow an ACL and the guy is out for the year. I guess scrambling someone's brain is a preferred outcome. In a "man's game" at least. Harrison takes headshots. It is what he does. The NFL is smart to eliminate that before some guy goes into convulsions on the field as these hitters are increasing the force delivered faster than the head increases capacity for force received.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Harrison seems like a complete and utter *******. On top of that, the "classy" Steeler organization seems like it is simply an enabling franchise. The Steelers are QB'd by a two-time accused rapist and seem to fully defend/support someone like Harrison who disregards the rules on a weekly basis.

[Redskins Diehard]

Harrison seems like a complete and utter *******. On top of that, the "classy" Steeler organization seems like it is simply an enabling franchise. The Steelers are QB'd by a two-time accused rapist and seem to fully defend/support someone like Harrison who disregards the rules on a weekly basis.

The Steelers of today are no different than the Raiders of the 70's or the Cowboys of the 90s in my opinion. At best Big Ben is a morally bankrupt individual. And any list of dirty players is peppered with people from that team. But they have a cool towel and an old owner

[TD_washingtonredskins]

The Steelers of today are no different than the Raiders of the 70's or the Cowboys of the 90s in my opinion. At best Big Ben is a morally bankrupt individual. And any list of dirty players is peppered with people from that team. But they have a cool towel and an old owner

And they started winning again...if they had continued along the traditional Cowher path, I think the perception of the Steelers would be much different. Good point about dirty players...I forgot about how much of a punk Hines Ward is. The Steelers have annoyed me so much that I actually view the Ravens as the lesser of two evils over in the AFC North.

[MassSkinsFan]

How do you wrap the legs? Were you taught to leave your feet to tackle?

No. But this is what I was talking about. Most coaches will tell you to put your head on the ball. This means your shoulders are at or just above the belt buckle. If you hit someone with great force in that position, their torso will continue moving forward. When that happens it's easy to wrap the thighs.

[Redskins Life]

This is horse****. McCoy had tucked the ball and taken five steps as a runner before he threw the ball. If he was treated as a 'runner' and not as a 'QB' date='' the play would have been fine.[/quote'] Despite the fact that the hit was late and clearly a violation of the helmet to helmet rule, the rule clearly states that until the QB passes the line of scrimmage, and therefore cannot legally throw the ball, he is considered an eligible passer. This means that he would not be treated as a "runner." This point was brought up by a caller on "Moving the Chains" last night on Sirius NFL Radio. Both Tim and Pat emphasized how that is clear in the rule and it has been for sometime now.

---------- Post added December-14th-2011 at 10:28 AM ----------

[/color]

Goodell would have Taylor in prison by now.

I don't understand why people think that this is all Goodell, when in truth, he has very little, if anything to do with it. There is a discipline committee, headed by Art Shell, that Goodell doesn't even sit on, that makes all decisions on whether a play is punishable or not, and they decide the punishment. Goodell only gets involved when it comes to players having off the field issues, unless a player or his agent requests to meet with Goodell. Goodell doesn't even play a part in the appeals process. There are literally several dozen lawyers, committee members, and other people that deal with the vast majority of these cases. Goodell isn't the one who makes or amends these rules either. That is also made by the committees and then voted on by the owners.

[ACW]

Someone needs to concuss Harrison and show him how funny it is.

[Hitman21ST]

Goodell would have Taylor in prison by now.

Taylor hit with great form. Never led with his helmet (or hardly ever) and always hit with his shoulder.

[Redskins Diehard]

Taylor hit with great form. Never led with his helmet (or hardly ever) and always hit with his shoulder.

There is one tackle he makes on a running back that is picture perfect form. It is in some of his "greatest hits" videos.

---------- Post added December-14th-2011 at 04:39 PM ----------

No. But this is what I was talking about. Most coaches will tell you to put your head on the ball. This means your shoulders are at or just above the belt buckle. If you hit someone with great force in that position, their torso will continue moving forward. When that happens it's easy to wrap the thighs.

Exactly. Head on the ball. That is how you knock the ball loose. Or you can knock the guy unconscious I suppose.

[sportjunkie07]

while i dont fully support harrison's views, i do understand where he's coming from.

sure the hit was illegal, but overall these rules need to be tweaked. at some point in a critical momement (perhaps in the playoffs), youre going to see a qb fake a throw and see the LB slow up.. the qb is going to get away and make a game changing play.

it's tough to ask these guys to slow up, make sure never to have helmet to helmet contact, and never hit a defenseless player when the ability to play their position well relies on them using their instincts and playing as hard and fast as possible.

[Redskins Diehard]

while i dont fully support harrison's views, i do understand where he's coming from.

sure the hit was illegal, but overall these rules need to be tweaked. at some point in a critical momement (perhaps in the playoffs), youre going to see a qb fake a throw and see the LB slow up.. the qb is going to get away and make a game changing play.

it's tough to ask these guys to slow up, make sure never to have helmet to helmet contact, and never hit a defenseless player when the ability to play their position well relies on them using their instincts and playing as hard and fast as possible.

The fake a throw, or fake stepping out of bounds...has been around for a long time. He was suspended for hitting him in the head, with the head correct?

He better adapt or I bet he will be gone. Sure it is tough...my deepest sympathies for James while he works through it.

[Dirt]

this is a lot of discussion for a simple observation.

Harrison thinks it's ok to hit helmet it helmet, even though he knows it's against the rules, he ****es and moans about it then still does it, then laughs. **** him, why is anyone defending him? He's SAID, he's going to keep aiming for people's heads (paraphrase). There's no question of who's head ducked first or how fast the game goes, he SAID "i'm gonna keep playing the way I play" and what that means is hitting guys in the head. He's a piece of ****, **** James Harrison.

And you can hate on your boss (goodell) all you want, but you don't have to be a smartass and laugh and say bad things about him publicly. Real professional. Some role model you are James.

[CRobi21]

Taylor hit with great form. Never led with his helmet (or hardly ever) and always hit with his shoulder.

Agreed.

But the thing that would have plagued Sean T is this whole "defenseless receiver" thing. He lived for those hits on defenseless receivers.

[PokerPacker]

Agreed.

But the thing that would have plagued Sean T is this whole "defenseless receiver" thing. He lived for those hits on defenseless receivers.

Defenseless receiver is kind of a stupid rule. As opposed to the helmet to helmet thing that Harrison gets off on.

[#98QBKiller]

Let them play ball

[Dirt]

Defenseless receiver is kind of a stupid rule. As opposed to the helmet to helmet thing that Harrison gets off on.

You don't really see 'defenseless receiver' called unless there's helmet to helmet anyway, so it's kind of a pointless term. They say "helmet to helmet hit on a defenseless receiver". If you come hard and blatantly enough with your helmet to a receiver who CAN defend himself, they're going to call it then, too.

[PokerPacker]

You don't really see 'defenseless receiver' called unless there's helmet to helmet anyway, so it's kind of a pointless term. They say "helmet to helmet hit on a defenseless receiver". If you come hard and blatantly enough with your helmet to a receiver who CAN defend himself, they're going to call it then, too.

I've seen a number of times when they nail a receiver with his hands on the ball in the ribs and they call it. It's a stupid rule.

[Redskins Diehard]

Let them play ball

The rule book is full of rules that hinder their ability to "play ball" and for good reason. Crack back blocks, chop blocks, clipping, facemask. And those are rules that were in place long before the so called sissification of football