CRobi21 Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 The Rob Jackson sack/ff against Dallas there was a flag against us on the play, so his sack didn't count. That's the confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportjunkie07 Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Of course he's going to do fine, in severely limited playing time. Hell, given one snap, I could probably do "just fine." Jackson's a great depth player, and that's what depth players are supposed to do: fill in in limited time. Todd Collins is a prime example. In limited snaps, he played like a world beater, but no one in their right mind would go claiming he's a full-time starter. collins worked well because JC was, imo, pitiful running that offense. when collins came in, there was a stark difference in the movement/rythym of the passing game. but basically, youd never how backups will perform as starters unless they get chances to do so. he may be just a decent player in limited playing time. but maybe there is more. overall, im glad weve got depth there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always A Commander Never A Captain Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 though i dont agree completely with DC9 (specifically on orakpo being done developing or teams trying to devalue him), i think if you swapped orakpo for jackson for an extended period of time, the difference in play from that position would be negligible. just my opinion, i do like orakpo, but i think he falls short in a bunch of areas which he still has time to improve on. and when ive seen jackson fill in, he's done just fine (outside of penalties). You know how in the Dolphins game we came close to limiting them to a field goal which would have made it 16-9 and still a 1 possession game? You know how Reggie Bush ran for 18 yards and scored a touchdown to instead make it 20-9 and out of our reach? Guess who botched his assignment on that play? Rob Jackson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soup Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 I still think the best draft pick from last year is on IR right now. Jenkins. He's going to command double teams, can't wait to see him next season. Finally have two end rushers on the redskins. A nice KO punch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman21ST Posted December 1, 2011 Author Share Posted December 1, 2011 The Rob Jackson sack/ff against Dallas there was a flag against us on the play, so his sack didn't count.That's the confusion. Fair enough, but if we want to count that one, you need to bump up Orakpo's total by at least 10, due to sacks being called back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always A Commander Never A Captain Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 I still think the best draft pick from last year is on IR right now. Jenkins. He's going to command double teams, can't wait to see him next season.Finally have two end rushers on the redskins. A nice KO punch You could be right. He did show some AMAZING potential in the pre-season. I still remember the play he got injured on. He planted his left foot and tore his knee, why? Because he caught the guard off balance and was going to throw him to the ground kung fu style and then hurdle him. I hope his injury heals perfectly, because he could be a gigantic asset for us. Unfortunately the same could be said for another promising rookie, Hankerson. Bad luck for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laron Burgundy Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 God I wish we had drafted Carlos Dunlap, I really wanted him on draft day, but thankfully we traded away our 2nd rounder for McNabb. Him and Calais Campbell (which thank God we drafted Devin Thomas instead of that guy). Any time a guy is that big, and that athletic, he's probably going to be a force in the nfl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moondog Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 So you are satisfied with Orakpo as a pass rusher for the next seven years, even though Rob Jackson (in limited play) has more sacks within the division than him? You are satisfied with a pass rusher, where in six of your 16 games... he won't register a sack if trends stay true. (IE: the teams that play him most, already no his one trick pony move and shut him down).---------- Post added December-1st-2011 at 03:53 PM ---------- I would target Tampa Bay. But that said, it would have to be in the teens. I would target a mike like Te'o or Hightower. And if you think Orakpo has coverage skills I have a bridge I'd like to offer you. And Orakpo is a poor man's elite pass rusher. Do you even grasp the concept that teams prepare all weak for Orakpo? That they know they have to bust their ass to keep him off the QB? Tackles prepare for a specific player for a reason. That is why good defensive coordinators with multiple pass-rushers will switch which sides they rush from occasionally because it catches them off balance. Is it over your head to think that when Rob Jackson comes in, the tackle most likely has no idea who he is (slight exaggeration) and is also less prepared for what Jackson is capable of and also less likely to give the same effort as he would against Orakpo? Do you honestly believe that Jackson would have anywhere near the production in terms of pressuring the quarterback (completely ignoring all other facets of the game) if he was the full time starter and the guy that other team's LT prepared for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Problem is that we need to rush Orakpo on every player. none of this coverage nonsense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewCliche21 Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 I still think the best draft pick from last year is on IR right now. Jenkins. He's going to command double teams, can't wait to see him next season.Finally have two end rushers on the redskins. A nice KO punch Don't forget that either Orakpo or Kerrigan is going to be the one coming right behind Jenkins. I'd **** myself if I were the tackle and guard on that side of the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan07 Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 LMFAO. Any list that doesn't have Ware or Allen as #1 is a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 LMFAO. Any list that doesn't have Ware or Allen as #1 is a joke. Only if you rank fan perception as the most accurate measure of a player's true effectiveness...especially fan perception based off of watching a few games per season. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman21ST Posted December 1, 2011 Author Share Posted December 1, 2011 LMFAO. Any list that doesn't have Ware or Allen as #1 is a joke. Did you even read about the explanation? They get sacks, but for the most part they're either getting the sack or not getting any pressure (at least in Jared Allen's case). It takes into account sacks and pressures, so if you're really good at one and not so much at the other then you're not going to be high on the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Did you even read about the explanation? They get sacks, but for the most part they're either getting the sack or not getting any pressure (at least in Jared Allen's case). It takes into account sacks and pressures, so if you're really good at one and not so much at the other then you're not going to be high on the list. Not to mention it's based off of QB disruptions per number of snaps rushing the passer. Put another way: Orakpo has 43 QB pressures (sacks, hits and pressures). Ware has 49 QB pressures. However, Orakpo got his 43 QB pressures in just 259 snaps. Ware got HIS 49 QB pressures in 332 snaps....almost 80 more snaps for Ware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsrbeast Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Why? Because it's factual? no ware no allen? that doesnt make sense. not a good system to judge pass rushers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman21ST Posted December 2, 2011 Author Share Posted December 2, 2011 no ware no allen? that doesnt make sense. not a good system to judge pass rushers Ware is number 11. Orakpo has put 6 fewer pressures on quarterbacks in 80 fewer attempts. What's hard to understand about that? Orakpo is getting to the QB on a higher percentage of plays than Ware and Allen, as is everyone else in the top 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slateman Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 So, basically, they're going to try apply baseball type sabermetrics to football? Yea great plan except for the small flaw of having a pathetically small sample size. Oh, and the formula is completely arbitrary? Why are hits and hurries equal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moondog Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Ware is number 11. Orakpo has put 6 fewer pressures on quarterbacks in 80 fewer attempts. What's hard to understand about that? Orakpo is getting to the QB on a higher percentage of plays than Ware and Allen, as is everyone else in the top 10. I'm on the Orakpo train and have clearly been arguing for him. I also get what the article is trying to say and everything. But it definitely is hard to argue Allen shouldn't be up there - pressures and all that are great, but he's got some stats just this year that are hard to ignore: In 11 games this year, Allen has had at least a half sack in 9 of them. He has 4 games with 2 or more sacks. He has 7 sacks in 4 division games. The 2 games without sacks have been the last two, meaning that at one point, he had all of these stats in 9 games. He has done this on a 2-9 team that has rarely played with a lead. I agree that pressures are important and there is more than just getting sacks to the whole thing. On multiple occasions this year I've seen Kerrigan or others get sacks because Orakpo forces the quarterback to run right to them. But when it comes to making big plays by sacking the quarterback, it's hard to say Ware and Allen aren't at the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slateman Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Ware is number 11. Orakpo has put 6 fewer pressures on quarterbacks in 80 fewer attempts. What's hard to understand about that? Orakpo is getting to the QB on a higher percentage of plays than Ware and Allen, as is everyone else in the top 10. But Allen and Ware have 8 more sacks .... Honestly, who cares about hits and hurries. All it means, especially with our secondary, is that they didn't get to the QB quick enough. I wonder how many of those hurries are from the Dallas when they "forced" Romo sits to pee out of the pocket ---------- Post added December-2nd-2011 at 12:19 AM ---------- Oh and Orakpo has rushed the QB 80 fewer times than Ware? I call bs. Because if that's true, Haslett should be fired immediately for dropping Orakpo in to coverage that many times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman21ST Posted December 2, 2011 Author Share Posted December 2, 2011 But Allen and Ware have 8 more sacks ....Honestly, who cares about hits and hurries. All it means, especially with our secondary, is that they didn't get to the QB quick enough. I wonder how many of those hurries are from the Dallas when they "forced" Romo sits to pee out of the pocket. Who cares about hits and hurries? Quarterbacks do, because it gives them happy feet and causes them to throw off rhythm. It frustrates the QBs to no end. It means that secondaries don't have to cover as long. I could go on... Oh and Orakpo has rushed the QB 80 fewer times than Ware? I call bs. Because if that's true, Haslett should be fired immediately for dropping Orakpo in to coverage that many times. You can't just "call bs." There are plenty of reasons why. Dallas could have played more defensive snaps than the Skins. Offenses might have rushed more than against the Skins. 80 snaps over 11 games isn't that much of a difference...it's less than 8 snaps a game more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 You can't just "call bs." There are plenty of reasons why. Dallas could have played more defensive snaps than the Skins. Offenses might have rushed more than against the Skins. 80 snaps over 11 games isn't that much of a difference...it's less than 8 snaps a game more. The Cowboys' defense has gone up against 40 more passing plays than the Skins' defense, so that's half of it right there lol...and not sure how much playing time Orakpo has missed due to injury as compared to Ware. Both have started all 11 games, but we know Orakpo has had several games where injury put him on the sideline for extended periods. Ware might have as well, not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewCliche21 Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 I'm definitely surprised that Kerrigan isn't higher on that list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC9 Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 No, seriously. Hold on. You think another team is gameplanning the Redskins on a Sunday, based on intentions of a trade that might happen in the offseason???? And now you're making up stats??Look, I know the Geico commercials are horrible, but seriously what else did Rak do to piss you off? And why aren't you picking apart other players that aren't 'elite'? Why not put every position on a 'slightly downhill but lateral decline'? Your **** makes no sense dude. Rak is going to be a Skin for a long time so deal with it No that was sarcasm (about the gameplanning to show that Kerrigan was better). I posted that because the guy I was talking was claiming Orakpo was unstoppable and had four sure fire moves to get to the quarterback. I pointed out to him if Orakpo was that bad a man, than why are teams chipping Kerrigan instead of Orakpo? Kerrigan is the one getting more double teams. What stats did I make up? Jackson sacked Brees in 2009 and Jackson sacked-fumbled Romo sits to pee in week 3 this year. If they aren't on NFL.com then they aren't keeping the right stats. They are saying he has one career sack vs. the Jags and that's innacurate. EDIT: The thing we have to know about this article is what is considered a pressure? Because if Orakpo getting run up the field and behind the quarterback by a tackle counts as a pressure, then I agree, he deserves to be on this list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theTruthTeller Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Who cares about hits and hurries? Quarterbacks do, because it gives them happy feet and causes them to throw off rhythm. It frustrates the QBs to no end. It means that secondaries don't have to cover as long. I could go on... Would you rather be hurried on 8 passes or sacked six times? If you have a high ratio of hurries to sacks, it probably means that the opposing QBs aren't all that concerned about your pass rushing abilities and are holding onto the ball longer. If you have a low ratio of hurries to sacks, opposing teams are probably gameplanning faster developing pass plays. I'm pretty sure that if they held a league wide draft right now that Ware and Allen would both go several rounds before Dunlap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paloosa Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 I guess they lost me when their "most productive" pass rusher has 3 sacks. that ties for 75th in the sack rankings. I guess you didn't click on the link provided that takes you to the article which explains their method. Or is that too much reading for you to do? Sacks are nice but they don't win you games or make the player better than the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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