PFF: Top 25 Most Productive Pass Rushers

[Sweet Sassy Molassy]

Kerrigan is a worker and a playmaker. He get's to the quarterback and leads the league in forced fumbles amongst rookies.

Orakpo should be traded because he is a one trick pony. He has a speed rush. He does not have a counter-move and doesn't do well in coverage. He routinely gets run at by other teams... check out games 3 to last week.... teams are inviting him up the field and running right at him. Highway 98... that's what I call him.

That said... we have another young OLB who spells Orakpo and get's to the passer as well in Rob Jackson.

I've said Rob Jackson is a C+, Orakpo is a B. If you can get a pick in the teens were we can draft a Dont'a Hightower or Manti Te'o to learn from Fletch for a year (if he resigns), then you do it. You'll end up going down half a grade outside, and upgrade the middle with an A to replace and aging A.

Plus, there's no telling how well Jackson will play with more reps, the kid already has more NFC East sacks than Orakpo and he causes fumbles too.

Trade him to the Bucs for their pick in the 1st.

HAIL!

---------- Post added December-1st-2011 at 09:57 AM ----------

I'm not in the suck for luck camp either. I'm in the draft a reciever in the first (if one of the big 3 arent' there) and draft a quarterback in the second camp. This is a deep draft for QBs and we can get two pretty good ones in my opinion. The team has to win to build momentum for the young quarterback to come in and succeed. That was the plan for the jump, me thinks.

But why keep a guy that is constantly getting beat by getting run at or getting run up the field by a tackle. How about a spin move? If you can't improve your game and reinvent yourself to be succesful and help the team, then WHY are you worth keeping? For 10 sacks a year against out of division teams?

I'm not necessarily in the trade Orakpo camp, but I have been getting more and more annoyed when watching Orakpo for the reasons presented here. Particularly his use, or lack thereof, of his hands. He seems to get neutralized if his first move doesn't work, I've seen him repeatedly go at a Tackle with a bullrush and once he's engaged he has nothing to disengage he just tries to push the guy into the QB and fall into a sack. Or he tries speed rushing gets pushed off his base and the best chance you have of him disrupting the play is getting a hold. The biggest frustration is the fact that he still doesn't seem to try to knock the ball out of the QBs hand when making a sack. He had a huge sack on Newton in their redzone, and forced a FG (I think) but he had a free shot on Newton's blindside and if he had brought his arm around and swatted at the ball while also blowing up Newton it likely would have been Redskins recovering the fumble. Kerrigan in less than a year has shown better ability to get his hand on the ball while also getting the sack along with a larger variety of moves to throw off his opponent.

[SWFLSkins]

Orakpo should be traded because he is a one trick pony. He has a speed rush. He does not have a counter-move and doesn't do well in coverage. He routinely gets run at by other teams... check out games 3 to last week.... teams are inviting him up the field and running right at him. Highway 98... that's what I call him.

That said... we have another young OLB who spells Orakpo and get's to the passer as well in Rob Jackson.

I've said Rob Jackson is a C+, Orakpo is a B. If you can get a pick in the teens were we can draft a Dont'a Hightower or Manti Te'o to learn from Fletch for a year (if he resigns), then you do it. You'll end up going down half a grade outside, and upgrade the middle with an A to replace and aging A.

Plus, there's no telling how well Jackson will play with more reps, the kid already has more NFC East sacks than Orakpo and he causes fumbles too.

Trade him to the Bucs for their pick in the 1st.

HAIL!

?

Wow. Two things come to mind, If you are right about Orakpo than how on earth are the Bucs going to give up a first for him. Your suddenly smarter than the Bucs? And as far as the run game goes how do you think the DL will look next year with DT's like Nield and Jenkins? The team is building something here and you don't throw good parts to the trash before putting it all together.

Rob Jackson is a good player, he is not Orakpo.

---------- Post added December-1st-2011 at 11:00 AM ----------

I'm not necessarily in the trade Orakpo camp, but I have been getting more and more annoyed when watching Orakpo for the reasons presented here. Particularly his use, or lack thereof, of his hands. He seems to get neutralized if his first move doesn't work, I've seen him repeatedly go at a Tackle with a bullrush and once he's engaged he has nothing to disengage he just tries to push the guy into the QB and fall into a sack. Or he tries speed rushing gets pushed off his base and the best chance you have of him disrupting the play is getting a hold. The biggest frustration is the fact that he still doesn't seem to try to knock the ball out of the QBs hand when making a sack. He had a huge sack on Newton in their redzone, and forced a FG (I think) but he had a free shot on Newton's blindside and if he had brought his arm around and swatted at the ball while also blowing up Newton it likely would have been Redskins recovering the fumble. Kerrigan in less than a year has shown better ability to get his hand on the ball while also getting the sack along with a larger variety of moves to throw off his opponent.

So lets watch the man grow next year. These are techniques that can be coached. The guy still has a great motor and plays with heart.

[moondog]

The Orakpo debate has been going on for a while and I hate to get drawn into it because people clearly have their opinions formed and that's all they care about. Basically, Orakpo is great at putting pressure on the quarterback, it needs to result in more sacks and he needs to take a page out of Kerrigan's book when it comes to looking for the turnover rather than the big hit. After all, a simple strip of the ball actually COUNTS as a sack. But ultimately, anyone who thinks he hasn't improved against both the run and in coverage isn't watching the games.

I like Rob Jackson, but the guy usually comes in to spell Orakpo and has zero responsibility but to pin his ears back and go. That's how he plays and it's the same as a guy like Dunlap - he doesn't belong on this list but it helps he just has one job, get to the quarterback.

This list has some significance in pointing out there is more to being a great pass-rusher than sacks. Would I rather have sacks? Of course. But point in case is Tarvaris Jackson's pick to end the game last week. As a blocker, you are ALWAYS taught to take the inside guy first if you have to make a choice. Their tackle had to choose to block either Orakpo or Bowen, he went with the outside guy in Orakpo. Point #1: Orakpo frees up other players. Secondly, Bowen gets to the quarterback and lays the wood. Jackson saw him coming and just got rid of the ball, ending in an interception. Point #2: Quarterback pressures often result in poor decisions, incomplete passes and turnovers.

[skinsrbeast]

awful list

[GibbsFactor]

awful list

Why? Because it's factual?

[mwj473]

Why? Because it's factual?

Their data for sacks, pressures, and pass rush attempts are factual. The formula that they use with that data to come up with these rankings is not, it is their opinion. There is no way in my book that 3 sacks = 4 pressures, which is their formula. I would take 2 sacks over 4 pressures and they allow 3 sacks.

[Sweet Sassy Molassy]

So lets watch the man grow next year. These are techniques that can be coached. The guy still has a great motor and plays with heart.

I never said he didn't have a great motor, or play with heart. I'm all for letting him grow, if he can really improve his arsenal of rushes he'll be a damn near unstoppable force, that's the reason I'm not on the trade Orakpo bandwagon. However, I'm just concerned that he's been on the team 3 years and he's still not changed much about his rushing style. Look at his scouting report http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/517030 a lot of those issues listed as negatives with his rush style are still true today. IMO he's a hardworking player and I hope he can improve, but so far there are a lot of things that leave a lot to be desired with his all around game.

[PeterMP]

Using pressures as 3/4 of a sack is pretty fair. A pass rusher on a team with great DB play is going to get sacks, whereas a rusher on a team with lesser coverage ability might only get pressures, even if he's just as good. Using that metric helps even it out a little bit.

I doubt this is true. I'll bet that making the QB hold the ball longer has the same impact on hurries and hits as sacks.

That is on teams with good secondaries, there are cases where a player wasn't close in a normal time to have to throw the ball, but as time passes the rusher gets the QB as the QB throws the ball away.

[gamecokskins703]

oh ****. the orakpo debate. I for one have been extremely critical on Orakpo's play and think hes very overrated by redskins fans.

Yes, he is a one-trick pony, he has limited pass-rushing moves, hes not good in the run game nor the cover game, he's not even average at the run game or cover game nor is he elite at rushing the passer.

The link posted in the OP is trash, so dont even bring it up. Jared Allen is 43rd? yeah enough said.

HAVING SAID THAT, i would not trade Orakpo because who else would we put in there? hes our 2nd best OLB behind Kerrigan. We need him because he helps out our other pass rushers. The only way i would trade Orakpo, is by using him as ammo to get a QB this year.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

pretty cool, but jared allen being #40 something is nuts. that guy is a pressure machine, he definitely passes the eye test. maybe there are games where he disappears except for one big sack and thats what im remembering, but ive seen him over the years enough to know hes a beast.

[Laxpunk2006]

The biggest frustration is the fact that he still doesn't seem to try to knock the ball out of the QBs hand when making a sack. He had a huge sack on Newton in their redzone, and forced a FG (I think) but he had a free shot on Newton's blindside and if he had brought his arm around and swatted at the ball while also blowing up Newton it likely would have been Redskins recovering the fumble. Kerrigan in less than a year has shown better ability to get his hand on the ball while also getting the sack along with a larger variety of moves to throw off his opponent.

This is something Orakpo can get better at but we shouldn't ever expect him to be great at. He's left handed so when he is reaching for the QB's throwing arm while going in for the sack he is using his non-dominant arm. With practice he can get better but that is always going to be a disadvantage.

It's encouraging to see the coaches comfortable with flipping Kerrigan/Orakpo from one side to the other. It wouldn't totally surprise me to see them switch in our base sets within a few years.

[Sweet Sassy Molassy]

This is something Orakpo can get better at but we shouldn't ever expect him to be great at. He's left handed so when he is reaching for the QB's throwing arm while going in for the sack he is using his non-dominant arm. With practice he can get better but that is always going to be a disadvantage.

It's encouraging to see the coaches comfortable with flipping Kerrigan/Orakpo from one side to the other. It wouldn't totally surprise me to see them switch in our base sets within a few years.

I guess that could hurt. But is it really that tough to wrap your arm and slap with either arm? I mean, I'm no professional so maybe this means nothing, I'm a lefty, but I have enough dexterity to swing my right arm. Maybe you're right, I'm not saying you don't know what you're talking about, it just seems a bit far-fetched that it would be such a major burden to his ability to perform such a thing.

[Floodzone004]

I haven't seen KC play much, but I doubt he gets as many double teams as Ware, Miller and Allen. He also has a fraction of their tackles, which would leave me to believe that he is only coming in on obvious passing downs and has no run responsibilities.

Ware, Miller and Allen also have multiple forced fumbles. Dunlap, 0.

I guess anyone can come to their own conclusion about what makes a pass rusher productive.

....Suh doesn't play for KC. He plays for DET.

[Sweet Sassy Molassy]

This is something Orakpo can get better at but we shouldn't ever expect him to be great at. He's left handed so when he is reaching for the QB's throwing arm while going in for the sack he is using his non-dominant arm. With practice he can get better but that is always going to be a disadvantage.

It's encouraging to see the coaches comfortable with flipping Kerrigan/Orakpo from one side to the other. It wouldn't totally surprise me to see them switch in our base sets within a few years.

I guess that could hurt. But is it really that tough to wrap your arm and slap with either arm? I mean, I'm no professional so maybe this means nothing, I'm a lefty, but I have enough dexterity to swing my right arm. Maybe you're right, I'm not saying you don't know what you're talking about, it just seems a bit far-fetched that it would be such a major burden to his ability to perform such a thing.

[jflow78]

So, we should get rid of a good player because he doesn't happen to be outstanding at everything? Yes, people run at pass rushers. That has always happened in this league. I also think Orakpo has improved in coverage, but the great pass rushers tend not to be great in coverage. (Really, do you want Ware in coverage? No, you don't.) Why do I think that you'd nitpick Kerrigan a couple years down the line?

I honestly have come to believe that half the ideas members have about how to "fix" the Skins are a symptom of boredom. I think we've gotten so used to the drama surrounding our team, that we aren't satisfied with someone who's actually good because they're not new. I agree, I think we give it a couple years and people will be saying the same thing about Kerrigan.

Heck, if we draft a QB and he's doing great and we're not winning the division every year, I can see people saying the same thing. "Well, sure he's a great passer, but we need someone that can get out of the pocket and run, we should trade him and draft a different QB AND pick up an OLB to replace Orakpo who we ignorantly traded away a couple years ago."

[El-Rey]

The point that needs to be repeated is that we don't have a good secondary, so we don't get many coverage sacks. If Orakpo added more moves, he would be lethal. The idea of trading him is ridiculous though. Overrated by our fanbase? Maybe slightly, but he is young, talented, and plays hard.

[Botched]

Ok, let's forget about QB pressures for a minute.

Brian Orakpo currently has as many or more sacks, tackles, and forced fumbles as:

James Harrison

Elvis Dumervil

Clay Matthews

Dwight Freeney

Jason Taylor

Robert Mathis

Trent Cole

I wonder if those guys are also "one-trick ponies" who should be traded? Maybe they need more pass rushing moves like Brian Orakpo?

Rak hasn't progressed as well as I would have liked him to either, but damn, he's a lot better than some people here are giving him credit for. He's a really good player, a total professional, and a guy that any team would want on their roster.

In 2006 we had the worst pass rush in the NFL. The year before Orakpo we were 28th in sacks. Now with our current roster we're sitting at 3rd and people are upset because our best pass rusher isn't an unstoppable force? When did we get so picky?

[CRobi21]

The one thing I hope Rak trains for in the offseason is the use of his hands. I think that's the thing keeping him back to being a true force every time he rushes. He loves the rip, the bullrush, with the occasional inside move. If he could learn to get his hands on the tackle's hands/arms, he's strong enough to throw them off balance and quick enough to go right by them. And this will keep him from getting "not held."

---------- Post added December-1st-2011 at 01:00 PM ----------

Ok, let's forget about QB pressures for a minute.

Brian Orakpo currently has as many or more sacks, tackles, and forced fumbles as:

James Harrison

Elvis Dumervil

Clay Matthews

Dwight Freeney

Jason Taylor

Robert Mathis

Trent Cole

I wonder if those guys are also "one-trick ponies" who should be traded? Maybe they need more pass rushing moves like Brian Orakpo?

Rak hasn't progressed as well as I would have liked him to either, but damn, he's a lot better than some people here are giving him credit for. He's a really good player, a total professional, and a guy that any team would want on their roster.

In 2006 we had the worst pass rush in the NFL. The year before Orakpo we were 28th in sacks. Now with our current roster we're sitting at 3rd and people are upset because our best pass rusher isn't an unstoppable force? When did we get so picky?

Thank you.

Lord knows I love them, but do people not remember what our pass rush looked like when we had Renaldo Wynn and Phillip Daniels as our edge rushers?

[darrelgreenie]

^^^Yep, he needs to up his hand fighting, give those holding sons of beaches a a snaps worth of judo chops every play- keep their hands away from him and beat their arms up at the same time

Rak is already a good pass rusher but to become great or at least reach his full potential he's should at add an outside rush that converts to an inside move (spin or rip)

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Orakpo should be traded because he is a one trick pony. He has a speed rush. He does not have a counter-move and doesn't do well in coverage. He routinely gets run at by other teams... check out games 3 to last week.... teams are inviting him up the field and running right at him. Highway 98... that's what I call him.

What? His last sack came from a bull rush. That then makes him a two trick pony. He's also gotten pressures from lining up wide, stuttering near the tackle and then going inside him. So Orakpo is now a three trick pony. Orakpo also excels in stunts. That makes him a four trick pony.

You really need to watch him play, he's getting better. And I say you need to watch him play because it's clear that you don't since you think he only has 1 pass rush move. He has by no means peaked and he still has a lot of room to get even better. If you trade him away then you become worse than Vinny Cerrato.

That said... we have another young OLB who spells Orakpo and get's to the passer as well in Rob Jackson.

You can't be serious. If you think Orakpo is bad against the run, you need to watch Rob Jackson when they run at him. Also, Orakpo has gotten A LOT better against the run. You need to understand that his job against the run is a bit different as a 3-4 OLB than as a 4-3 DE. When people run at him, his job is to set the edge, and keep outside contain while the TE/LT/whoever is blocking him. It then becomes the ILB's job to make the stop as the RB is forced to cut back inside.

The 3-4 DE is supposed to keep the Guard from reaching the linebackers, and the 3-4 OLB is supposed to prevent the RB from getting outside of him and thereby forcing him to cut back inside to where our ILB's are waiting for him.

And ever since we gave Perry Riley the starting job, we've seen him step up into the hole and make the play. When we had McIntosh back there, he was to late getting to the hole and it looked like Orakpo was just getting pushed out of the play.

[DC9]

What? His last sack came from a bull rush. That then makes him a two trick pony. He's also gotten pressures from lining up wide, stuttering near the tackle and then going inside him. So Orakpo is now a three trick pony. Orakpo also excels in stunts. That makes him a four trick pony.

You really need to watch him play, he's getting better. And I say you need to watch him play because it's clear that you don't since you think he only has 1 pass rush move. He has by no means peaked and he still has a lot of room to get even better. If you trade him away then you become worse than Vinny Cerrato.

You must be right... that's why he hasn't been gameplanned against by every team that we've played against. And that's why the double team has been going to Kerrigan... other teams are trying to fool the Redskins into thinking they Kerrigan is better so that they can offer up a 4th rounder for Orakpo.

You can't be serious. If you think Orakpo is bad against the run, you need to watch Rob Jackson when they run at him. Also, Orakpo has gotten A LOT better against the run. You need to understand that his job against the run is a bit different as a 3-4 OLB than as a 4-3 DE. When people run at him, his job is to set the edge, and keep outside contain while the TE/LT/whoever is blocking him. It then becomes the ILB's job to make the stop as the RB is forced to cut back inside.

The 3-4 DE is supposed to keep the Guard from reaching the linebackers, and the 3-4 OLB is supposed to prevent the RB from getting outside of him and thereby forcing him to cut back inside to where our ILB's are waiting for him.

And ever since we gave Perry Riley the starting job, we've seen him step up into the hole and make the play. When we had McIntosh back there, he was to late getting to the hole and it looked like Orakpo was just getting pushed out of the play.

I'll agree on Perry Riley, but you realize Fletcher is almost 100 years old and his contract is up at the end of the season right? You think he can play like this for years to come? Who replaces him? I can tell you three touchdowns McIntosh has given up in busted coverage off the top of my head.

Jackson doesn't come in all that much. When he does, he is effective. What you fail to realize about Orakpo is that he is NOT setting the edge.... he is being invited upfield on the pass rush and teams are running right by him. He completely leaves his team mates out to dry. The edge is up the field and now you have a full back cutting the linebacker... it's been happening since we played the Cowboys in week 3.

If you take a step back and look at each player as an X or an O, you will see that Orakpo's X is not cutting it right now. I think he has maxed out on potential as a 3-4 OLB. And it's fine to have a B graded OLB, but I wouldn't expect anything more than about 7-10 sacks a year (all coming against teams outside of the NFC East, useful!) and maybe backing his way into a Pro Bowl when a guy like Matthews is playing for a ring.

HAIL!

[moondog]

I just find it interesting, DC9, that despite all your talk about how poor Orakpo is at getting to the quarterback, he does still have as many, if not more sacks then as many of these guys that most tend to say are "elite."

No one is going to argue that he doesn't have things he can improve upon. But I seem him involved in just about every running play to his side because he is setting the edge and typically shedding the block to get involved in the tackle after forcing the RB inside to Riley or Fletcher. Your comment about McIntosh is basically saying Orakpo should be blamed for the fact that Rocky can't hit the gap when Brian sets the edge. That makes no sense.

I see a player that has room to improve in terms of using his hands in his pass-rush and needs to work on forcing fumbles, but is an excellent pass-rusher. I also see a guy who has drastically improved against the run and has come up with some impressive non-pass-rush plays recently. For example, blowing his man off the line of scrimmage and getting up and over him to knock down a screen pass when the Seahawks were driving was particularly impressive to me. He is still developing - perhaps not at a lightning pace like Kerrigan but that does not mean he's not getting better.

Finally, a guy like Orakpo would be more celebrated if he was on a better team. I've said this again and again but when guys like Matthews can pin their ears back and go because they are always playing with a lead, it makes a huge difference. Orakpo posts big numbers and constantly plays from behind, meaning less opportunities and even when he gets them he has to be wary of the run as well. If Orakpo played for a team like the Saints (or if you want to limit it to 3-4 teams you could say Packers, Steelers, etc.) he would post All-Pro numbers and many would say if only we had a guy like Orakpo. The fact is, other superstars on other teams have weaknesses too but we only see their highlights or notice them for their good plays because we do not watch every play of every game like we do for the Skins to see when they make mistakes or play poorly.

[DC9]

moondog, I am not saying Orakpo is terrible, but he isn't "elite." He is a good player on team with a fanbase that longs for greatness, therefore his play is over rated. And yes, he hangs Rocky out to dry quite a bit on his pass rushes up the field. He sets the edge well on known rushing downs.

And his best sack-games come against terrible teams (Raiders in 2009), (Rams in 2011).

Look, the guy is GOOD. He is not GREAT.

Rob Jackson is GOOD. Brian Orakpo is GOOD. = a latteral move.

McIntosh is OKAY. Te'o/Hightower are unknown, but are GREAT college linebackers. = an upgrade.

Does that make more sense?

---------- Post added December-1st-2011 at 02:40 PM ----------

Finally, a guy like Orakpo would be more celebrated if he was on a better team. I've said this again and again but when guys like Matthews can pin their ears back and go because they are always playing with a lead, it makes a huge difference. Orakpo posts big numbers and constantly plays from behind, meaning less opportunities and even when he gets them he has to be wary of the run as well. If Orakpo played for a team like the Saints (or if you want to limit it to 3-4 teams you could say Packers, Steelers, etc.) he would post All-Pro numbers and many would say if only we had a guy like Orakpo. The fact is, other superstars on other teams have weaknesses too but we only see their highlights or notice them for their good plays because we do not watch every play of every game like we do for the Skins to see when they make mistakes or play poorly.

That argument makes sense as a theoretical football argument, but then why does Jared Allen (who's team hasn't dusted off anyone this year) have the second highest sack total in the league this year?

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Finally, a guy like Orakpo would be more celebrated if he was on a better team. I've said this again and again but when guys like Matthews can pin their ears back and go because they are always playing with a lead, it makes a huge difference. Orakpo posts big numbers and constantly plays from behind, meaning less opportunities and even when he gets them he has to be wary of the run as well. If Orakpo played for a team like the Saints (or if you want to limit it to 3-4 teams you could say Packers, Steelers, etc.) he would post All-Pro numbers and many would say if only we had a guy like Orakpo. The fact is, other superstars on other teams have weaknesses too but we only see their highlights or notice them for their good plays because we do not watch every play of every game like we do for the Skins to see when they make mistakes or play poorly.

Exactly. Guys like Hall, Orakpo, and our defensive scheme as a whole will turn 2 possession leads into blowouts as teams are forced to throw against us. The players and play calling won't have to worry about it being a rushing play.

---------- Post added December-1st-2011 at 02:44 PM ----------

So DC9, you don't think Orakpo could ever get better? You think he's already peaked in his 3rd year as a player?

[TheLongshot]

Heck, if we draft a QB and he's doing great and we're not winning the division every year, I can see people saying the same thing. "Well, sure he's a great passer, but we need someone that can get out of the pocket and run, we should trade him and draft a different QB AND pick up an OLB to replace Orakpo who we ignorantly traded away a couple years ago."

To be honest, I felt some of the criticisms of Campbell came down to this as well. People here seem to expect that a QB can do it all by himself and not have help from receivers and a running game and an OL that can block. Also, if a QB has all of those things, their performance is discounted, saying, "Well, he's only that good because of his excellent supporting cast".

People need to realize that both go hand-in-hand. It is a team game, after all.

---------- Post added December-1st-2011 at 03:26 PM ----------

Rob Jackson is GOOD. Brian Orakpo is GOOD. = a latteral move.

I just did a spit take after reading this. Really? Funny you criticise Orakpo's run defense, but have you seen Jackson's? I've seen him run himself out of plays, not be in good position, yadda yadda. And this is a guy I've only seen when Orakpo is on the bench. In limited time, he has not looked as good as Orakpo.