Wouldn't have taken much to put us in first place right now

[ChicagoRedskinsFan]

As awful as this team was for the 5 weeks leading up to the Cowboys game, a couple of field goals would have us in first place right now. Both games against the Cowboys would have been won but for ineptitude in the kicking game, contrasted by 8 for 8 in field goal kicking from the Cowboys. A 2 point loss in Dallas, an overtime loss in Washington. We make our kicks and we're 6-5, tied with the Giants who are falling fast, and ahead of the Cowboys who would be 5-6 in this alternate universe. This is with no changes, not a single additional yard gained or turnover avoided throughout this season. I just don't understand why this area is continually neglected, when it could make all the difference. The Redskins are usually competitive, and getting to the level where a field goal miss is a rare exception, like for the Bears for example, could easily be the difference between a 6-10 and a 10-6 season. Of course I'd love to have the Packers or Patriots offense and not worry about measly field goals, but what's easier to fix?

[hail2skins]

Rex looked shaky in the three games (@DAL, @STL, PHL) that led to his benching, and I know he couldn't have gone against the Panthers, but you wonder if either the Bills or 49ers games may have turned out differently if he had been in. Granted, the margins of victory in those were still wide, but god was Beck dreadful in those games.

[SJValleySkinz]

Who says if we're up 19-15 in Dallas the defense doesn't take its usual dump in a critical situation and gives up a TD at the end?

[Rypien1191]

In this alternate universe, we finish the season 8-8 and don't get Robert Griffin III next year.

[brandymac27]

Well, we can talk about what coulda/shoulda been. But the fact remains that good teams know how to win despite adversity. We're not quite there yet. Give us a QB, some OL, and a few other key players this off season and we'll be on our way. But I still don't see us being competitive until at least 2013.

[HLF]

Hopefully we can get a franchise QB and take this division back in a couple years. Eli, Romo sits to pee and Vick are all veteran QB's and we'd be able to get a head start on the future. Granted they're not great QB's but they're much better then what we have, we almost have no shot until we find one.

[emor09]

Can't forget to blame Deangelo. Both Dallas games he gave up 3rd and forever plays to set up the game winning field goal

[ChicagoRedskinsFan]

Who says if we're up 19-15 in Dallas the defense doesn't take its usual dump in a critical situation and gives up a TD at the end?

You are absolutely right. Can't guarantee things would have played out the same for the remainder of the game if the field goal wasn't botched. But maybe the defense holds up and we do win. At least put the pressure on the Cowboys to earn the win with a TD. But we certainly would have won the home game if Gano could have put it through in OT. Not a chip shot for sure, but makeable - and the league average is around 67% on 50+ field goal attempts this year according to a stat flashed by FOX. Even just having that one would have us at 5-6, one game out right now. Of course we'd blow it in the coming weeks, but at least we'd have something of a season left.

[HLF]

You are absolutely right. Can't guarantee things would have played out the same for the remainder of the game if the field goal wasn't botched. But maybe the defense holds up and we do win. At least put the pressure on the Cowboys to earn the win with a TD. But we certainly would have won the home game if Gano could have put it through in OT. Not a chip shot for sure, but makeable - and the league average is around 67% on 50+ field goal attempts this year according to a stat flashed by FOX. Even just having that one would have us at 5-6, one game out right now. Of course we'd blow it in the coming weeks, but at least we'd have something of a season left.

lol thats where we got caught with Gibbs 2.0. Kept having slightly above average seasons while the QB play was below average and now its almost completely a pass first league and were stuck.

[SpacePenguin]

The same could be said for most teams in the league. In the modern NFL, the difference between a victory or a defeat is often a handful of plays.

That being said, the thing that seperates the good teams from the bad are usually the same handful of plays.

We are a bad team, period. Sorry, I don't like it either.

[No_Pressure]

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts we'd all have a merry christmas.

[BadKarma]

This is why Shanahan should be fired after this season, he has done eff all to improve this teams' position. This league, especially our division was up for grabs this year and we head right down the crapper when Shanahan hits the panic button after the first Dallas game and lets us lose 5/6 in a row to fall out of contention. The kind of incompetence / failure that he allowed this team to show the past month and a half make me feel like we have the wrong guy making decisions.

He turned our perennial top 10 4-3 defense into a rebuilding project, he is shaping an Oline around zone blocking which we all know is never going to work in the NFC.E the way it does in Houston or did in the AFC.W. Our offensive skill position players are still yet to be found in year two and we appear to be looking towards year 4 at this point before this regime really has their feet under them enough to call this rebuild on its way.

I blame Snyder for this, we appear to have all our chips into a 5-10 yr full rebuild with an aging HC who hasnt shown he could overcome a hint of adversity in his short stint here. Snyder poisons the culture of the team then we are forced into a situation where our buffoon owner has no choice but to hand the reigns over to an older HC as a final resort because he knows he wont be able to hire anyone at this point willing to work with him.

Thank god for fantasy football, it makes the pain of watching this Snyder team less obvious to me as I go week to week.

[greenspandan]

you can play this game if you want, but the fact is we are a bad team and lucking into a good record would only hurt us in the long run.

[Dark Acre]

This is why Shanahan should be fired after this season, he has done eff all to improve this teams' position.

Yeah, and we'll have the distinction of going through nearly as many head coaches as QBs. How many HCs have served out their initial contract with Snyder? Any? Our top-10 4-3 D (and don't get me wrong, I'm a 4-3 guy) was lousy at generating TOs, and you need TOs to win; you can't just keep the D on the field forever relying on it to generate a stop at the 5 -- it'll wear them out. Why wouldn't zone blocking work in the NFC-E? Frankly, it's a lousy division. Looks like Helu has the tools to be a star. Granted Shanahan inherited a top-5 receiving corps from Vinny C. (uhhh, that's sarc).... You would hire whom?

[brandymac27]

This is why Shanahan should be fired after this season, he has done eff all to improve this teams' position. This league, especially our division was up for grabs this year and we head right down the crapper when Shanahan hits the panic button after the first Dallas game and lets us lose 5/6 in a row to fall out of contention. The kind of incompetence / failure that he allowed this team to show the past month and a half make me feel like we have the wrong guy making decisions.

He turned our perennial top 10 4-3 defense into a rebuilding project, he is shaping an Oline around zone blocking which we all know is never going to work in the NFC.E the way it does in Houston or did in the AFC.W. Our offensive skill position players are still yet to be found in year two and we appear to be looking towards year 4 at this point before this regime really has their feet under them enough to call this rebuild on its way.

I blame Snyder for this, we appear to have all our chips into a 5-10 yr full rebuild with an aging HC who hasnt shown he could overcome a hint of adversity in his short stint here. Snyder poisons the culture of the team then we are forced into a situation where our buffoon owner has no choice but to hand the reigns over to an older HC as a final resort because he knows he wont be able to hire anyone at this point willing to work with him.

Thank god for fantasy football, it makes the pain of watching this Snyder team less obvious to me as I go week to week.

You can't possibly be serious about firing Shanny after this season. Despite your opinions of him, he has actually done some excellent things with this football team. No, he hasn't been perfect, but he in no way deserves to be fired for crying out loud. Do you seriously want to have to start all over AGAIN when we are only a couple of years away from being seriously competitive with the way Mike has handled the team so far? That would be ludicrous! Why does he deserve to be fired? Because he made changes to the defense (which has worked out pretty well IMO)???

And I beg to differ with you in regards to your comment about how our offensive skill position players have yet to be found. We have some great young guys at RB, OL, and WR who will continue to get better. He's rebuilding this team. It's gonna take time, but to want him fired, and then blame Dan for this is preposterous! And btw, I think Mike is gonna be here for a while, probably longer than his contract, so you might wanna get used to him.

[BadKarma]

You would hire whom?

I would look for a young/passionate/hungry HC when looking to lead and rebuild a franchise like Bmore/SF did with the Harbaugh brothers but thats beside the point because we didn't have the right FO in place to attract a decent prospect, ie Zorn.

I realize Shanahan was a desperation hire to save this team so I am hanging on to the hope that this eventually turns into Kyles team and looking at year 6-7 of Allens regime before we become relevant again. I said Shanahan "should" be fired but because this team has nothing going for itself under Snyder all we can hope for is Snyder is committed to a tenure of Shanahans, I am just disappointed that in what appears to be a year when we had a viable shot at the playoffs that we basically threw in the cards last year with all the drastic changes in schemes.

I would have thought a less aggressive approach to rebuilding would have kept the team in contention in the lean years and been a better approach to a rebuild, draft position is great but building a winning culture would have been better. The young guys on this team know we are in a rebuild now and are looking to the future, I can assume most of our vets wont look to stick around so I am assuming anyone over 25 wont be on this team when we do get eventually around to playing in meaningful games late in the season again.

---------- Post added November-29th-2011 at 02:46 AM ----------

but to want him fired, and then blame Dan for this is preposterous!

Dan is the absolutely the reason for our failures over the past 15 years, he came in thinking he was going to be Mark Cuban and fell flat on his face from day one bringing nothing but instability and an approach to personnel/drafting that undermined our players. He is the reason we are in this position, one can only hope he has learned his lesson and will never again show his face again until he has a chance to hoist a trophy.

[Ænima]

I said in the offseason that the Redskins should go after Akers. It really amazes me how nfl teams always undervalue the importance of a good kicker.

[jaydogg3eb]

This is why Shanahan should be fired after this season, he has done eff all to improve this teams' position. This league, especially our division was up for grabs this year and we head right down the crapper when Shanahan hits the panic button after the first Dallas game and lets us lose 5/6 in a row to fall out of contention. The kind of incompetence / failure that he allowed this team to show the past month and a half make me feel like we have the wrong guy making decisions.

He turned our perennial top 10 4-3 defense into a rebuilding project, he is shaping an Oline around zone blocking which we all know is never going to work in the NFC.E the way it does in Houston or did in the AFC.W. Our offensive skill position players are still yet to be found in year two and we appear to be looking towards year 4 at this point before this regime really has their feet under them enough to call this rebuild on its way.

I blame Snyder for this, we appear to have all our chips into a 5-10 yr full rebuild with an aging HC who hasnt shown he could overcome a hint of adversity in his short stint here. Snyder poisons the culture of the team then we are forced into a situation where our buffoon owner has no choice but to hand the reigns over to an older HC as a final resort because he knows he wont be able to hire anyone at this point willing to work with him.

Thank god for fantasy football, it makes the pain of watching this Snyder team less obvious to me as I go week to week.

There is so much wrong with this post that I don't even know where to begin. May God have mercy on your soul.

[Dirt]

I get that it doesn't really count to go back and change history, but this isn't really a matter of a handful of plays. It's barely even one play, it's a football sailing about 11 inches in the wrong direction.

Even if you don't buy it, you still have to say that the team, throughout those games, had a very very good chance to win. So even despite the few weeks wasted on Beck, the team was at least in position, per game, to have a realistic shot at the division (at this point in the season). Which, I think, should quiet the notion that this team is just so, so, so, so hopelessly, horribly bad. We're closer to good than you think.

[Jumbo]

BadKarma, it would serve you well to go back take a hard look at your last two posts in this thread and see if you can figure out why they might appear fairly ridiculous to many people. Here's just one small example: not only is the thread not about Snyder in any way, but you have Snyder responsible for failures of the team three seasons before he was even involved. As much as Dan's been an issue, even he isn't able to have added to our woes several years prior to his arrival.

Per the topic, the point I would think is worth discussion, as Dirt noted above, is that we may not be as totally suck-ass as is widely presented in this forum. Now I admit that I lean towards a pretty damn negative evaluation currently, but I am willing to entertain the notion it might be somewhat better than it seems.

[NewCliche21]

BadKarma, it would serve you well to go back take a hard look at your last two posts in this thread and see if you can figure out why they might appear fairly ridiculous to many people. Here's just one small example: not only is the thread not about Snyder in any way, but you have Snyder responsible for failures of the team three seasons before he was even involved. As much as Dan's been an issue, even he isn't able to have added to our woes several years prior to his arrival.

Per the topic, the point I would think is worth discussion, as Dirt noted above, is that we may not be as totally suck-ass as is widely presented in this forum. Now I admit that I lean towards a pretty damn negative evaluation currently, but I am willing to entertain the notion it might be somewhat better than it seems.

The difference between the Packers and the Vikings is seven games and lightyears in quality. The difference between the 49ers and the Rams is the same. Two less games for the Saints and Panthers, same in terms of quality. Same for the AFC East, North, and South.

If you look in the AFC West and our own NFC East, the difference between first and last is three games. The difference between first and last in the NFC East is two field goals. Literally two field goals. Five points.

This team could easily, easily, EASILY be on top of the division if not for the Rexperiement/Beckspirement and a couple of injuries. Or, as I said, a couple of field goals.

Anyone who doesn't see that we're not getting in position for a run, a REAL run, not a "Nine in a row or we don't get to lose in the wild card round" run; a real fourth Lombardi run, just isn't paying attention and is going to be pleasantly surprised in two years' time.

[aussieskin]

a friend of mine who lives in seattle said that seahawks were out coached thats from a seahawks fan MS has done a lot more than he is given credit for, he changed the culture and attitude of the washington redskins, our D is very good and after April our O will also be very good be patient skins fans

[Larry Brown #43]

I get that it doesn't really count to go back and change history, but this isn't really a matter of a handful of plays. It's barely even one play, it's a football sailing about 11 inches in the wrong direction.

Even if you don't buy it, you still have to say that the team, throughout those games, had a very very good chance to win. So even despite the few weeks wasted on Beck, the team was at least in position, per game, to have a realistic shot at the division (at this point in the season). Which, I think, should quiet the notion that this team is just so, so, so, so hopelessly, horribly bad. We're closer to good than you think.

What I keep coming back to is the two desperate 3rd-and-long situations Dallas converted on us. Obviously a big "if," but if we prevent them from converting those, we're in first place today.

[hailer21]

You are what your record says you are.

If Gano doesn't shank his kicks we win. If Deangelo doesn't slip, Dallas doesn't get in easy field goal range. If the refs make the right call, dallas doesn't quickly get a TD lead. If the football isn't magnetically attracted to Romo sits to pee we probably win in Dallas. If the Skins can stop any 3rd and longs against Dallas the game aren't even close. In 2008, if the Redskins scored 20 points in every game they would've been 12-4. If this and if that.

I'm not going to nitpick 3 or 5 plays in order to distort the reality of the entire season. We're not an elite level team so the results are going to be close, but the fact remains that the good teams make the plays to win the game and the bad ones lose it.

---------- Post added November-29th-2011 at 08:10 AM ----------

Plus I don't think there are any better kicker options on the street, so I don't think we'd be any better off without GaNO.

[hail2skins]

[quote name=NewCliche21;8720804The difference between first and last in the NFC East is two field goals. Literally two field goals. Five points.

This team could easily' date=' easily, EASILY be on top of the division if not for the Rexperiement/Beckspirement and a couple of injuries. Or, as I said, a couple of field goals.

Anyone who doesn't see that we're not getting in position for a run, a REAL run, not a "Nine in a row or we don't get to lose in the wild card round" run; a real fourth Lombardi run, just isn't paying attention and is going to be pleasantly surprised in two years' time.[/quote]

Yeah NC21, the Beck thing was terrible. I think the frustration arises in that it seems every year we have posts that say "if this had happened and that had happened," we could be in first. If that were the case, you would think things would even out and that we would've had some division titles by now. But every year (with the exception of the Gibbs wild-card berth) we have been in the same place at the end, mainly in last place looking up at everyone.

But the silver lining, as you said, is that at least now we seem to have the promise of consistency for at least a few years at the HC position and appear to be building something.