At least Rex is showing the scheme is solid. He just isn't the one to run it.

[grego]

There is a difference between a scheme and the execution of the scheme. I think we need a legit QB as well as some infusion of quality talent on the OL (most likely FA) before we can judge the scheme.

i'm caught between 2 thoughts. first one is, our offensive talent is not very good. i believe this, and i'm not sure its really debatable. second, if a scheme is any good, it should work to some extent even with talent that isnt all world.

the fact that our O has appeared so incompetent the last few weeks (and not very good overall since shanny has been here), under 2 different QB's is concerning. it seems even with our talent, we could at least score a touchdown once in while if the scheme isnt flawed.

[mistertim]

i'm caught between 2 thoughts. first one is, our offensive talent is not very good. i believe this, and i'm not sure its really debatable. second, if a scheme is any good, it should work to some extent even with talent that isnt all world.

the fact that our O has appeared so incompetent the last few weeks (and not very good overall since shanny has been here), under 2 different QB's is concerning. it seems even with our talent, we could at least score a touchdown once in while if the scheme isnt flawed.

That's a valid point but at the same time the offense has looked decent when Good Rex showed up. Unfortunately, this season, Good Rex started the first game or two but very quickly transformed into Bad Rex. I don't think Rex is a good QB in general but the offense does seem to at least be capable of moving the ball and getting into the red zone when he is playing. However, the INTs really kill things. If you have a QB with almost 2 times as many INTs as TDs you're going to have a hard time winning games regardless of the scheme.

On the other hand you have Beck who isn't Good Beck or Bad Beck...he is just "Meh Beck". He doesn't look comfortable, he seems to panic, he misses open guys, checks down way too fast. So its hard to really judge the scheme with a guy like that in there as well. I don't envy either Shanahan right now as far as the QB position goes; they really are forced to pick which kind of garbage they want on their dinner plates: hot garbage or cold garbage.

[redskins55]

No single QB can sink a team's season no matter how bad he is. We are just a bad team from top to bottom. We were even bad before the injuries and that's attributed to Shanahan. He's got one more year to at least show some progress like the Dolphins, Titans, Seahawks or Raiders, or he's toast!

[MusicCitySkin]

IMO, we should offer our 2nd round pick for Matt Flynn instead of addressing QB in the draft. We aren't getting luck, sorry guys. Matt Flynn is the perfect QB for Kyle's offense. This isn't because of him playing last night either, the guy is just a pocket passer, great accuracy, good awareness and is a starting NFL QB.

Yep, just keep trading away those draft picks. It's worked out so well thus far. Flynn is currently in the best possible position he could be in right now. The Packers are probably the best run offense in the entire league. Put Flynn in this joke and just see what happens.

[theTruthTeller]

Isn't Flynn an unrestricted free agent next year? Why do people keep talking about trades?

He was a 7th round pick who played well in his one start. Maybe he can be a starter - but I wouldn't settle on him without legitimate competition in training camp. And by legitimate competition, I don't mean Beck.

[DieselPwr44]

How the h3ll is the scheme solid??? They cannot run, they cannot pass with regular success...But the scheme is SOLID??? !

Yes it is.

Why doesn't it work here?

This roster is THAT devoid of talent on the offensive side of the ball.

Look at our current offensive roster and name one player that would start on the Pats,Steelers,Packers Saints or any SB contender?

I come up with the number 0

[kubstix]

Yep, just keep trading away those draft picks. It's worked out so well thus far. Flynn is currently in the best possible position he could be in right now. The Packers are probably the best run offense in the entire league. Put Flynn in this joke and just see what happens.

Please, you talk as if drafting is the only means of creating a football team. How has drafting worked out for this football team compared to the FA we picked up this year? I couldn't even fathom what it would be like if we just played all the players in the next 2 years from the draft and got rid of all the veterans and FA's we picked up. FA is part of the NFL buddy. Just because Vinny gave away picks for superstar 100 million personnel, doesn't mean Bruce/Mike are going to do the same thing. Since when is Green Bay the best run offense in the NFL? That statement right there is similar to telling all of us the Patriots are better built for the run than pass.

[Burgold]

With the combo of injuries and poor talent how can you know?

Look what we're missing... off an already weak line we're missing our strarting guard and starting right tackle.

Off our receivers we're missing our most consistant wide receiver, two promising rookies, Armstrong (got to imagine that his hammy is one of the reasons that we played a guy we just signed off the street last week ahead of him, and our formerly all pro tight end

Off our running backs we're missing our starter and our back up full back

That's nine guys. Only eleven start on offense. Combine that with the fact that we our quarterback is on the lowest rung of starter material and our o line was below average to start with... and can you really expect great execution and production?

We can judge the O to a degree before the bye, but since then we've been a MASH unit.

[GWinSkins83]

i'm caught between 2 thoughts. first one is, our offensive talent is not very good. i believe this, and i'm not sure its really debatable. second, if a scheme is any good, it should work to some extent even with talent that isnt all world.

the fact that our O has appeared so incompetent the last few weeks (and not very good overall since shanny has been here), under 2 different QB's is concerning. it seems even with our talent, we could at least score a touchdown once in while if the scheme isnt flawed.

I don't know about that man. When a rookie WR comes in and have 8 for 106 yards and a rookie RB has 46 yards rushing on 7 carries...I think the system works. Now I do think Kyle calls some plays at the wrong time. But his system get WRs open and thats all you can ask for. Also you got to look at mistakes by players a holding call at the one yard line, false starts in the redzone, and missed blitz pickups in the redzone can erase any hope of a TD.

[Burgold]

Please, you talk as if drafting is the only means of creating a football team. How has drafting worked out for this football team compared to the FA we picked up this year? I couldn't even fathom what it would be like if we just played all the players in the next 2 years from the draft and got rid of all the veterans and FA's we picked up. FA is part of the NFL buddy. Just because Vinny gave away picks for superstar 100 million personnel, doesn't mean Bruce/Mike are going to do the same thing. Since when is Green Bay the best run offense in the NFL? That statement right there is similar to telling all of us the Patriots are better built for the run than pass.

Actually, I'm still pretty pleased with the draft. Kerrigan, Helu, Hankerson, Paul, Jenkins, Nield, and Hurt all seem to have the ability to contribute on the NFL level to some degree. Gomes seemed to have good instincts during the preseason, but there must be a good reason even with the constant injuries to our secondary he hasn't gotten field time... still, that seems like a pretty good rookie haul at the moment.

[GWinSkins83]

Image another draft and FA like this past year. I am excited about this FO plans. We get our QB of the future and a draft with ten or more draft picks is going to be real exciting next year. I also exciting to see Hankerson and Jenkins next year too. I chalk this year as a building up to future which ease the losing.

[kubstix]

Actually, I'm still pretty pleased with the draft. Kerrigan, Helu, Hankerson, Paul, Jenkins, Nield, and Hurt all seem to have the ability to contribute on the NFL level to some degree. Gomes seemed to have good instincts during the preseason, but there must be a good reason even with the constant injuries to our secondary he hasn't gotten field time... still, that seems like a pretty good rookie haul at the moment.

Your right no doubt. I guess my issue is with using a #1 pick for the QB position. I would have a tough time with this. So many 1st round QB busts.

[Burgold]

Your right no doubt. I guess my issue is with using a #1 pick for the QB position. I would have a tough time with this. So many 1st round QB busts.

There's a time to throw the dice. Norv Turner wanted his quarterback no matter what and spent it on Heath Shuler despite the indications that he wasn't really top ten material... just the best rated in that class. If the 'skins perform their due dilligence and believe that a quarterback be it Luck, Griffin, Barkley or whomever has the chance to be really great then it's worth a go. After that though, you better start drafting some 300 pounders to protect him so he doesn't wind up like David Carr or Patrick Ramsey whose potential was bludgeoned out of them.

[urblessed00]

Look....the Drew Brees and Tom Brady picks are flukes. A front office must do it's due dilligence, scout and draft the qb they feel can lead there team. While Andy Dalton is doing ok in Cinci....is he a super bowl winning qb? I doubt it....but the jury is out. I reiterate, stop picking off other teams qbs that they don't want. That's why I don't subscribe to the Matt Flynn idea. He looks good..........in THAT system. That's not to say he will here..especially with our line issues and lack of talent at the wr position. No, the Shanahans need to get off this perch that they can take a wal-mart greeter and insert him "their system" ...and BAM...pro-bowl...superbowl winning quarterback. No, you need a franchise quarterback to win in this league. The worse thing that could have happened to shanahan senior...was winning superbowls as the offensive coordinator with the 49ers with Steve Young and the broncos with Elway. He obviously has a complex that he doesssssssssn't need a hall of fame quarterback to win with his system. However alllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll common sense and stats shows that his offense achieved it's optimal level of success with two hall of fame quarterbacks surrounded by a running back playing at a hall of fame level in denver and mulllllltiple hall of fame level players in san fran with Rice...waters...ect. Get over yourselves! Talent wins in this league..not systems. This isn't college. That's part of the reason spurrier failed. It's not the system...you need players. In this pass heavy league now, if you don't have a qb, your not going to win a super bowl. That Ravens team of 2000 was the last of that kind we will see. But all that being said, I have no confidence in the shanny's swallowing their pride and drafting an potential (cuz it's a crapshoot) franchise qb. Someone outside the box like RGIII....who is accurate...intelligent......mobile...could get the nuances down of this system because of his intelligence...and is accurate. But no, he doesn't fit the model of a shanahan quarterback. Landry Jones...isn't the answer and that's probably who they will be in line to get. Sad.

[GWinSkins83]

Look....the Drew Brees and Tom Brady picks are flukes. A front office must do it's due dilligence, scout and draft the qb they feel can lead there team. While Andy Dalton is doing ok in Cinci....is he a super bowl winning qb? I doubt it....but the jury is out. I reiterate, stop picking off other teams qbs that they don't want. That's why I don't subscribe to the Matt Flynn idea. He looks good..........in THAT system. That's not to say he will here..especially with our line issues and lack of talent at the wr position. No, the Shanahans need to get off this perch that they can take a wal-mart greeter and insert him "their system" ...and BAM...pro-bowl...superbowl winning quarterback. No, you need a franchise quarterback to win in this league. The worse thing that could have happened to shanahan senior...was winning superbowls as the offensive coordinator with the 49ers with Steve Young and the broncos with Elway. He obviously has a complex that he doesssssssssn't need a hall of fame quarterback to win with his system. However alllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll common sense and stats shows that his offense achieved it's optimal level of success with two hall of fame quarterbacks surrounded by a running back playing at a hall of fame level in denver and mulllllltiple hall of fame level players in san fran with Rice...waters...ect. Get over yourselves! Talent wins in this league..not systems. This isn't college. That's part of the reason spurrier failed. It's not the system...you need players. In this pass heavy league now, if you don't have a qb, your not going to win a super bowl. That Ravens team of 2000 was the last of that kind we will see. But all that being said, I have no confidence in the shanny's swallowing their pride and drafting an potential (cuz it's a crapshoot) franchise qb. Someone outside the box like RGIII....who is accurate...intelligent......mobile...could get the nuances down of this system because of his intelligence...and is accurate. But no, he doesn't fit the model of a shanahan quarterback. Landry Jones...isn't the answer and that's probably who they will be in line to get. Sad.

I sure do hope you are wrong. Man I hope you no. But I do think they know they need a super talented QB. He did draft a QB in the top 15 picks before after he tried with throw aways. I think its just all of the big plan.

[wrecker]

So what if Matt Leinart lights it up in Houston now that Schaub is out? I was hoping we would have picked him up to compete with Grossman this year instead of Beck.

If he is effective and takes the Texans to the playoffs it will be just another black eye on Shanny and son's record.

Edit: This should be a good test since Houston's and Kyle's offenses are very similar to see if Leinart can run it.

[RandyHolt]

I am not sure that Shanny has the pulse of the league, the slow move in the NFL to being more of a passing league. Led by Peyton and Brady, and probably some rule changes, offenses have become more dynamic, and adapt to remain successful. Shanahan seems stubborn, and almost set in his ways about how a team wins games. He and Kyle shun the hurry up, yet oddly, prefer an uptempo offense. We expect him to hit a home run and land us a QB, but what in the past 2 years has shown he can pick a QB? Maybe more years than that, when is the last time he acquired a good QB.

We can say injuries decided our fate this year, but all teams have injuries. I call bunk. Pitt won a bowl with a shoddy offensive line, they adapted. I see us trying the same things regardless of the personnel. Our scheme is not working, otherwise we would be able to adapt. A big part of the shanny scheme is his unstoppable running game, regardless of the back. We havent been able to run for a month if not more. That is his scheme. I think I have seen Torain run left for a first down once in a month. And it got called back on a hold. Its not for a lack of trying, trying the same thing over and over.

I suspect our offense is not dynamic enough, and it comes down to coaching. No hurry up, no gadget plays, no flickers, guys that practice "well" get all the reps. All teams have room for big game players, guys you know that bring it on game day. He likes the practice players that bring it, who I theorize bring it because they know they won't get hit. I bet Galloway was a total stud running the slant in practice because he knew he wouldnt get destroyed by Mike. See the difference? I would like game day performances to get a strong say in who is on the team.

[authentic]

Your right no doubt. I guess my issue is with using a #1 pick for the QB position. I would have a tough time with this. So many 1st round QB busts.

Just remember that we no longer have Vinny here. Which means that the chances of us going after a Ramsey or J. Campbell are slimmer than before. In 2 drafts under the current FO, we've hit on quite a few players. From Trent Williams to Perry Riley to Kerrigan to Javis Jenkins to Hank...etc. My point is i'm confident that they will draft the right guy. If Vinny were here, i would be worried.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Is there any such thing as a "bad scheme?"

Every play is a touchdown on paper.

The only true bad scheme I can recall is Spurrier's, but that problem was that it was more of a college scheme than a pro scheme. The reads were backwards and it relied too heavily on 5 linemen making the correct block every time.

And it was reasonably effective against the Cover 2 defense that was the rage at the time. If he had any kind of QB, he probably could have put up more points though any good QB was still going to get murdered because of the flaws in protection.

[The Tris]

So what if Matt Leinart lights it up in Houston now that Schaub is out? I was hoping we would have picked him up to compete with Grossman this year instead of Beck.

If he is effective and takes the Texans to the playoffs it will be just another black eye on Shanny and son's record.

Edit: This should be a good test since Houston's and Kyle's offenses are very similar to see if Leinart can run it.

I dont think that is the case at all.

If you believe that, then you would also have to believe there is no difference between Houston's OL and our OL, Houston's WRs and our WRs, or Houston's RBs and our RBs.

There are so many other variable that it is impossible to break it down to such simple terms.

I'm pretty sure Grossman would have better numbers this year had he been Houston's starting QB than the numbers he had as our starting QB. Similarly, it is crazy to think that Schaub would have been as good as he was in Houston this year if he was the Redskins starting QB.

[flock53]

""Wow. Just wow. We can't run the ball worth a damn. Haven't been able to on a consistant basis all season actually, even when we were winning. I'm not even sure Shanny Jr wants to run the ball anyway. The play calling makes me scratch my head everytime. This offense makes me scratch my head everytime. I'll say it again and again, while I am not calling for heads to roll, I also hold the whole Rex vs Beck thing on the shoulders of the guys who brought those two here in the first place and then staked their reputation on the fact that they would run the "system" just fine. Not a "shutout" for the Shannys/Allen by any means in my opinion.""

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

+1000000000 The offenses best friend is a potent run game. If Shanny Jr. thinks hes the next play caller that spreads it around like NE,NO or Packers, he needs the red pill. We dont have a good enough QB or WRS to do that at all. Last year I watched all the play action BEFORE a run game was even established. This offense isnt good enough to get a 30 pt lead AND THEN get your running backs their 20-30 carries. DIDNT Shanny Jr come from the Texans???? Look at their RUN GAME. They have 2 backs that can get 100 yrds EACH.......WHY???? Cause they try, cause thats how to do it. He comes here w/ less talent and tries to reverse it.....PICK A STARTING RB AND GO WITH IT WILL YA!!!!!!!! Helu one week, Torain the next......WTF, pick a frickin guy and stick with it......POUND Torain (like last year) and change it up w/ Helu on 3rd downs or change of pace/rest. Sometimes these coaches/coordinators get so FULL of themselves and think they are smarter then they are.......maybe thats the case????

[wrecker]

I dont think that is the case at all.

If you believe that, then you would also have to believe there is no difference between Houston's OL and our OL, Houston's WRs and our WRs, or Houston's RBs and our RBs.

There are so many other variable that it is impossible to break it down to such simple terms.

I'm pretty sure Grossman would have better numbers this year had he been Houston's starting QB than the numbers he had as our starting QB. Similarly, it is crazy to think that Schaub would have been as good as he was in Houston this year if he was the Redskins starting QB.

I am not necessarily trying to compare their offense to ours on a talent level. I am just interested to see if Leinart can run an offense effectively that is similar to ours. If so, then he would have clearly been a better option than Beck since it is pretty clear he cannot run this offense. Rex can run it. He just makes too many mistakes and bad decisions.

[The Tris]

DIDNT Shanny Jr come from the Texans???? Look at their RUN GAME. They have 2 backs that can get 100 yrds EACH.......WHY???? Cause they try, cause thats how to do it.

The Texans have a very good run game not because they call a bunch of runs, but because they have a very good OL that allows them to call a bunch of runs.

But hey, don't let facts get in the way of a good non-sensical rant.

[flock53]

The Texans have a very good run game not because they call a bunch of runs, but because they have a very good OL that allows them to call a bunch of runs.

But hey, don't let facts get in the way of a good non-sensical rant.

And when are you the next OL talent evaluator??? Are they talented OR are they just comfortable and GOOD from being in their respected "scheme"??? Just because their scheme works doesnt mean they are a unit of overly "talented" guys. They believe in their scheme/system, and they should, because it doesnt matter what back is in. Their linemen will get ProBowls cause they look better when the RBs have GREAT vision and can find and avoid would be tacklers and have enough power to break tackles for extra yardage. Their backs are GOOD, dont discount that and lay all the "talent" on the OL.........You must be an ex-OLman. Its a perfect combo and one hand washes the other.

But hey, dont let the facts get in the way of a good non-educational response and not to mention taking one comment out of my whole post and run with it.

If you read the whole thing, I was saying that with the lack of a good QB and decimated WRS (injury), our run game SHOULD BE the strong point. BUT it seems that the coaches want to set up the run with the pass and the Texans set up the pass with the run. They have GOOD weapons w/ AJ and Daniels and Walters/Jones/Dreesen as compliment players along with a better QB. Are they still that GREAT OL when/after AJ went down??? OR is it that all there is after the cut back is OPEN SPACE and big gains cause defenses are trying to stack the box more. We all know when you miss an asignment or tackle on a run blitz OR stack, its usually TO THE HOUSE.

[RandyHolt]

I am not sure that Allen isnt more than just a great cap guy now. I wonder if Shanahan's ego would allow for Allen to have a say in what QB we roll with. I think Kyle has more say than Allen, for instance.

A large part of any scheme is adapting if it doesn't work. We didnt adapt to the pressure on Beck and call some screens. We will do it next week! Heck as a DC, I could see that one coming and prepare for Helu to catch 10 balls.

Its such a strong QB draft, one can think we almost cant miss with a top 5 pick. I see Shanahan picking a guy for his offense, but who here thinks Shanahan and his offense will be here in 4 years when that QB has matured to a point when we could reasonably start to expect greatness?

He is late in the game to start building around a young QB. He needed to start trying 2 drafts ago IMO.