NoCalMike Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 All this talk about Rex vs. Beck, Beck vs. Rex. Well now that we have had a decent sample size from both QBs, I think it is safe to say that while Rex will always be the errant turnover at the worst time machine that he has shown to be, he also does "just enough" to show the fans that Kyle Shanahan's offense is not the problem. I still entertain the thought that the playcalling itself seems off at times, but the system itself is there, and it seems to work and be getting guys open. Just because Grossman is being Grossman, or Beck is inept, doesn't mean the scheme itself is bad. We need a better QB, it is that simple. I'd even go as far as to say we don't even need a blue chipper, we simply need a solid QB that doesn't turn the ball over a ton, especially in the red zone. While neither QB is the answer, it seems clear as day now whether you were a Rex or Beck supporter in the beginning, that Rex was the right choice to start. So by my tally McNabb Haynesworth Rex vs. Beck 2011 Draft Shanahan/Allen 4 Naysayers 0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChampSkinsFanatic Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 So by my tallyMcNabb Haynesworth Rex vs. Beck 2011 Draft Shanahan/Allen 4 Naysayers 0 The fact that we even have Rex vs. Beck by my tally gives the Naysayers atleast 14 John Beck 10 sack game = 10 Rex Grossman 4 pick game =4 Shanahan had to know both of those guys sucked balls coming in to the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 So by my tally McNabb Haynesworth Rex vs. Beck 2011 Draft Shanahan/Allen 4 Naysayers 0 Huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigmuss1 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 I would have to agree with you, I'm sticking by this coach and GM. I am not going to ask for "heads to roll" anytime soon. Maybe in 2 years and there is no improvement, but for now Shanny and Allen certainly have my patience. They walked into a nightmare. They focused on D in Free Agency and the draft last year, we are much better on that side of the ball. If they can make the same improvements on O thru FA and the draft in 2012, we will be at least very competative in all of our games. It still doesn't help that it sucks to watch another season of NFL, and not have anything to cheer for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always A Commander Never A Captain Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 I never thought the scheme was bad. I'm even OK with the decision to try it out with Grossman this season. I didn't really like any of the QB's in the past draft (that we had a shot at getting). Be patient, and wait for the QB that will really be able to do everything the scheme uses and more. Besides Luck, it looks as if Matt Barkley can jump right into this scheme and do everything asked of him. There's no denying RG3's talent, I'm just unsure if he can do everything asked in this scheme. Bootlegs and roll outs, sure. Some occasional pocket passing, fine. Anticipating breaks and receivers to alter routes based on coverages? Don't know about that yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoRUSupposed2Be Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 I don't know what to believe anymore about this system... I just want to see points put up on the board. I won't even go as far as to say that Grossman sucks, because he clearly doesn't. He just needs to stop treating the football like it's his foster child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
authentic Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 No one calls the perfect plays 100% of the time. But will continue that scheme is NOT the problem. The problem on offense is mostly the QB. Also the Oline hasn't been perfect, but pass protection hasn't been as dire as some would claim. I would like to see how this offense can operate with a legit QB at the helm. Only time will tell... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Again, he moves the team up and down the field better than Beck. He'd be solid if he didn't turn the ball over. I also hate our play calling in the redzone. I think we get too conservative inside the 20, which bogs the offense down and makes the players skittish about making a mistake. If Rex had have held the ball for a second more and let Gaffney break into the endzone, it's a wide as wide can be open TD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
authentic Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 I won't even go as far as to say that Grossman sucks, because he clearly doesn't. He just needs to stop treating the football like it's his foster child. Grossman is not a good quarterback. Its just that the other options (i.e. Beck) are so bad, it makes Rex appear servicable. ---------- Post added November-14th-2011 at 01:43 PM ---------- Again, he moves the team up and down the field better than Beck. He'd be solid if he didn't turn the ball over. I also hate our play calling in the redzone. I think we get too conservative inside the 20, which bogs the offense down and makes the players skittish about making a mistake. If Rex had have held the ball for a second more and let Gaffney break into the endzone, it's a wide as wide can be open TD. ...can you blame them? it seems like the chances of an interception rises once they get closer to the endzone. Its pathetic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 The fact that we even have Rex vs. Beck by my tally gives the Naysayers atleast 14John Beck 10 sack game = 10 Rex Grossman 4 pick game =4 Shanahan had to know both of those guys sucked balls coming in to the season. That's silly. They knew they weren't world-beaters but figured a better Oline with a solid run game and better supporting cast at WR would keep them competitive. That obviously failed over time, but it worked well at first. I think they're more surprised about how awful the Oline has been than anything else. We can not get any semblance of a running game going and it's unbelievably bad. Our running game hasn't been this bad since 1994, I believe. It's crazy because that's always been Shanahan's thing. Grossman nor Beck are good enough to lead the team in a one-dimensional passing attack and our Oline can't pass block well enough when teams know we're going to pass. What made us successful during preseason and early on in the season was our ability to run the ball and play off of that. Dlinemen and Linebackers had to respect our rushing ability and couldn't tee off. Plus we'd get the early lead a lot of the times and that kept teams off balance since we could either run or pass. It's just all falling apart right now, unfortunately, but there's too much good to look towards the future to be so down about it. Things will get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aghar Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Wow. Just wow. We can't run the ball worth a damn. Haven't been able to on a consistant basis all season actually, even when we were winning. I'm not even sure Shanny Jr wants to run the ball anyway. The play calling makes me scratch my head everytime. This offense makes me scratch my head everytime. I'll say it again and again, while I am not calling for heads to roll, I also hold the whole Rex vs Beck thing on the shoulders of the guys who brought those two here in the first place and then staked their reputation on the fact that they would run the "system" just fine. Not a "shutout" for the Shannys/Allen by any means in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewagen Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Rex is a TURNOVER WH0RE inside the Redzone!!! PUHLEAZE don't tell me that Rex is the better choice. Both QBs are jokes, and that now makes FOUR QBs that Mike Shanahan has screwed up on-- Campbell, McNabb, Rex, Beck. In ONLY TWO YEARS! It just proves that Bruce Allen acts as Mike Shanhan's PIMP and nothing more... he brings in the raw meat that Coach Shanny wants, and has ZERO inputs as to what players are best for the Organization and Team... Sorry to see that, but that's reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Huh? yeah im not following the tally either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrabR Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 A good coach will adapt to a QB not try to adapt a QB to his 'scheme', especially if you do not have the perfect QB for your scheme I am so not impressed with Shanny as a coach................and I wanted him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enter Apotheosis Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Sadly, we needed both Grossman and Beck to play to show that the scheme has merit. Grossman can move the ball but he can only consistently hit a small selection of routes over a small section of the field and makes glaringly bad throws. Beck shows you more of the routes to the outside and shows off what a QB with wheels can do in the scheme but he just doesn't have the head for the game, alternating between getting rid of the ball too quickly and holding on to it too long. Shanahan had to know both of those guys sucked balls coming in to the season. It's not like he had many options to get rid of them given how the lockout, free agency, and the draft played out. A good coach will adapt to a QB not try to adapt a QB to his 'scheme', especially if you do not have the perfect QB for your schemeI am so not impressed with Shanny as a coach................and I wanted him. We've seen evidence of them adapting to the individual strengths and weaknesses of Beck and Grossman. They are just not starting caliber talents under any scheme. Rex made the Super Bowl owing to a good rushing attack and one of the best defenses of the last 5 years but got kicked off the team the following year because he couldn't get it done when the talent around him declined ever so slightly. Beck never really had a chance to develop to his potential and the window for him likely closed some time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumbler Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 How many QB's has this team gone through? How long before the team and people here realize that its not the QB. go ahead and keep replacing them for the next decade with no change. if you want change get recievers that can catch and are fast enough to break away. get a line that gives the QB more then a split second. get a run game that can average more then 1yard per gain (not sure the exact per gain is but it has not looked pretty) Defense has been the only thing that hasnt dropped the ball every game, but still teams are averaging above 18 per game or so, so tweaks needed. special teams kicking is great, special teams recieving not so good. cant believe people still discuss the QB situation when the rest of the field is worse. besides a good offense will make a subpar QB look good. a bad offense will make a QB look Subpar no matter who he is. discussing qb's is a waste of time on this team. its not your qb sucking. well maybe it is but its not ONLY the qb sucking that everyone is so focused on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofSparta Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 So by my tally McNabb Haynesworth Rex vs. Beck 2011 Draft Shanahan/Allen 4 Naysayers 0 Alright, I'm not quite sure how you're defining these "victories." The 2011 draft I give you. +1. The Haynesworth trade I'll give you half a point since his ego match with Fatso devalued him in trades. So that's 1.5 points for Shanny/Allen. How are you counting McNabb as a victory? Is it because he got rid of him after last year's debacle? Because if so, then that point is at least cancelled out by the "Naysayers" who were against him in the first place, so I'd say that goes to neither side. Hell, that trade set back our rebuild a bit by giving away a 2nd and 4th for the guy that could have been used on O-lineman, or D-lineman to transition to the 3-4, or WRs, or project QB or something. But for trading him for anything at all rather than try 1 more year with that disaster at QB, I suppose I'll allow you to at least not count it as a negative that Shanny saw the error of his ways. But Rex vs. Beck? No. He gets no points for that sham of a QB situation. Even if it cost us nothing, so would have bringing in a bunch of UDFA rookie QBs and they couldn't have done much worse than those 2 clowns. Shanahan/Allen most definitely lose a point to the naysayers on that one. How you can give him any points at all in that round, other than by saying that Rex is less catastrophically bad than John Beck, is beyond me. But even that victory is like saying it's better to lose your hand to gangrene than your entire arm below the elbow: it's not a good scenario either way. So in your made-up match, I'd say Shannahan/Allen wins by a score of 1.5-1. And that's being really generous toward them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky52Mc Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Through the darkened mist that clouds my life, week to week in this football hype, those words of encouragement bring light to my world. I'm just super excited the Eagles are terrible too!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan242 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 How about this. Kerrigan & Jenkins > Gabbert. That is what we should be comparing. Next year we will get one of the big 3 QB's. Luck, Barkley, Jones. So One of them & Kerrigan & Jenkins > Gabbert. We did the right thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulane Skins Fan Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 All this talk about Rex vs. Beck, Beck vs. Rex.Well now that we have had a decent sample size from both QBs, I think it is safe to say that while Rex will always be the errant turnover at the worst time machine that he has shown to be, he also does "just enough" to show the fans that Kyle Shanahan's offense is not the problem. I still entertain the thought that the playcalling itself seems off at times, but the system itself is there, and it seems to work and be getting guys open. Just because Grossman is being Grossman, or Beck is inept, doesn't mean the scheme itself is bad. We need a better QB, it is that simple. I'd even go as far as to say we don't even need a blue chipper, we simply need a solid QB that doesn't turn the ball over a ton, especially in the red zone. While neither QB is the answer, it seems clear as day now whether you were a Rex or Beck supporter in the beginning, that Rex was the right choice to start. So by my tally McNabb Haynesworth Rex vs. Beck 2011 Draft Shanahan/Allen 4 Naysayers 0 How on earth did you turn that into Shanny and Allen being 4-0? That is more homerism than I've ever seen in the Stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldskoolskins Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 How many QB's has this team gone through? How long before the team and people here realize that its not the QB. go ahead and keep replacing them for the next decade with no change. if you want change get recievers that can catch and are fast enough to break away. get a line that gives the QB more then a split second. get a run game that can average more then 1yard per gain (not sure the exact per gain is but it has not looked pretty) Defense has been the only thing that hasnt dropped the ball every game, but still teams are averaging above 18 per game or so, so tweaks needed. special teams kicking is great, special teams recieving not so good. cant believe people still discuss the QB situation when the rest of the field is worse.besides a good offense will make a subpar QB look good. a bad offense will make a QB look Subpar no matter who he is. discussing qb's is a waste of time on this team. its not your qb sucking. well maybe it is but its not ONLY the qb sucking that everyone is so focused on. If this is your theory, please explain the Manningless Colts, or why the Chargers are struggling while Rivers is in a slump, or why the Packers lost to us last year after Rodgers went down, or why when Romo sits to pee doesn't throw Grossman like interceptions the Cowboys hang 44 on the Bills, or why a talented team like the Jets can't win with Sanchez. I could go on and on but you get the picture, it is all about the QB, and we haven't had a good one for 20 years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Box76 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 I can't figure out why anyone would think this scheme is so great. What exactly is the scheme? I see no consistency that can help develop an identity. Take last week for instance. Helu turns into a pass catching machine, the dual threat we really need. So what do we do this week? Make a complete 180 and go with power runs with Torrain. We only run the screen at the end of games down by 2 scores. Did we try to stretch the D out with a long pass at all against Miami? It seemed in the first few games of the year we would run the zone only to the left. Now we seem to run only to the right off tackle. Its madness when Beck throws almost 40 times a game and the run game gets abandoned completely. Why is Grossman always throwing to the middle of the field inside the redzone? Everybody knows thats where he gets his INTS. My point is even less than adequate offensive teams can find a way to score if they stick to a basic set of principles. Use certain plays to set-up other ones. Be creative and use a trick play here or there to provide a spark. Is a fake punt that much to ask for? I find this coaching staff maddening to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumbler Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 If this is your theory, please explain the Manningless Colts, or why the Chargers are struggling while Rivers is in a slump, or why the Packers lost to us last year after Rodgers went down, or why when Romo sits to pee doesn't throw Grossman like interceptions the Cowboys hang 44 on the Bills, or why a talented team like the Jets can't win with Sanchez. I could go on and on but you get the picture, it is all about the QB, and we haven't had a good one for 20 years... Good point a bad QB can screw things up as well. but a good supporting cast always makes a QB look better. take away alot of the perfect throws that were dropped and some of those games were wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliffmark1 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Rex is a TURNOVER WH0RE inside the Redzone!!! PUHLEAZE don't tell me that Rex is the better choice. Both QBs are jokes, and that now makes FOUR QBs that Mike Shanahan has screwed up on-- Campbell, McNabb, Rex, Beck. In ONLY TWO YEARS!It just proves that Bruce Allen acts as Mike Shanhan's PIMP and nothing more... he brings in the raw meat that Coach Shanny wants, and has ZERO inputs as to what players are best for the Organization and Team... Sorry to see that, but that's reality. I know you're not used to this, none of us are, but this team is in a multi-year rebuild mode. Shanny didn't like those QBs and what was available, he's been drafting to the strength of the draft class and this draft is supposed to be the QB draft. People saying stuff like this makes Dan Snyder want to trade for Carson Palmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyGator Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Rex is by far the unluckiest QB I've seen in watching the NFL for 30+ years. Teams are just insane they way they replace QBs left and right these days. Bradshaw has recently said that he would have never made it in today's NFL with inpatience of teams/fan bases. Brady has noticed this as well, saying he's not sure he would have ever left the bench with other NFL teams. Defenses or a hot QB wins championships. It's more often the former despite ESPN's best attempts to spin otherwise. Most so-called elite QBs melt in the playoffs when they face real defenses. Chemistry takes time to develop on offense. There are very few QBs who can develop it quickly without A LOT of help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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