HogsHaven: A Look at All 9 Sacks by the Bills Against the Redskins

[skinsmania123]

HA ! The write is just garbage to me.LOL The writer CLEARLY has and fascination with Rex Grossman.I seen This before I looked at any of the pictures just by the guy first couple of comments. LOL Picture of are OLINEMEN getting Man handle,Knocked on their back, people missing assignments and he puts it all on JB.SMH yes,some of them do belong on JB,but pic of guys just getting flat out beat and punished is just flat out ridiculous to blame all of it on Beck. You can put Arron Rogers in those same pics and I bet the writer would change his tune to you see when this Oline is on his back along with the center and LT it's not on the qb blah blah.If anything out of the 9 sacks about 3 of them was JB fault the others is just flat out getting manhandled

I completely agree. And we have no idea how many of the receivers were covered up giving him 0 options. I think what annoys me the most is that here is Troy Aikman, announcer for the game pointing out the horrible Skins O line play, and the fact that all the receivers were covered up. He said over and over no QB could be effective faced with a similar predicament. I mean he was watching the game same us with a sure as hell better view. And I love when folks talk about JB not having a pocket presence. What pocket did he have to step up in, step to the side of etc? Counting the time it took for their D to get on JB, which was less then 2.5 seconds, which superman QB in this league could evenn set and throw with that rush? If you are really studying this game you will notice that sometimes the Bill's only had to send 3 guy's to put Beck on his ass. Not 4. So where are the other guys? Well they are back in coverage. At least be honest here. I get that we do not have a franchise QB. I get the disgust for our current and past coaches QB choices I really do, but we have so many issues on this team. And you know when I look back at the Skins when I was younger and we were dominant, what we had was the HOGS. I will take a serviceable QB with a superior O line any day of the week.

[Lavarleap56]

I completely agree. And we have no idea how many of the receivers were covered up giving him 0 options. I think what annoys me the most is that here is Troy Aikman, announcer for the game pointing out the horrible Skins O line play, and the fact that all the receivers were covered up. He said over and over no QB could be effective faced with a similar predicament. I mean he was watching the game same us with a sure as hell better view. And I love when folks talk about JB not having a pocket presence. What pocket did he have to step up in, step to the side of etc? Counting the time it took for their D to get on JB, which was less then 2.5 seconds, which superman QB in this league could evenn set and throw with that rush? If you are really studying this game you will notice that sometimes the Bill's only had to send 3 guy's to put Beck on his ass. Not 4. So where are the other guys? Well they are back in coverage. At least be honest here. I get that we do not have a franchise QB. I get the disgust for our current and past coaches QB choices I really do, but we have so many issues on this team. And you know when I look back at the Skins when I was younger and we were dominant, what we had was the HOGS. I will take a serviceable QB with a superior O line any day of the week.

Then why has it been put on beck by mike then ? Hate rex so much beck looks awesome, you guys are wild.

[D'Pablo]

I completely agree. And we have no idea how many of the receivers were covered up giving him 0 options. I think what annoys me the most is that here is Troy Aikman, announcer for the game pointing out the horrible Skins O line play, and the fact that all the receivers were covered up. He said over and over no QB could be effective faced with a similar predicament. I mean he was watching the game same us with a sure as hell better view. And I love when folks talk about JB not having a pocket presence. What pocket did he have to step up in, step to the side of etc? Counting the time it took for their D to get on JB, which was less then 2.5 seconds, which superman QB in this league could evenn set and throw with that rush? If you are really studying this game you will notice that sometimes the Bill's only had to send 3 guy's to put Beck on his ass. Not 4. So where are the other guys? Well they are back in coverage. At least be honest here. I get that we do not have a franchise QB. I get the disgust for our current and past coaches QB choices I really do, but we have so many issues on this team. And you know when I look back at the Skins when I was younger and we were dominant, what we had was the HOGS. I will take a serviceable QB with a superior O line any day of the week.

"…Here’s another stat: Beck unloaded six of his 44 passes in under two seconds (unofficially of course). Now, this could be a function of he and the receivers not being in sync or him not completely trusting them yet. It could also be a function of an offense that reads high to low. Meanwhile, Buffalo’s Ryan Fitzpatrick, by comparison, threw the ball in less than two seconds (unofficially) on 16 of his 28 pass attempts. He was playing behind a reshuffled line, had one receiver out with an injury."

http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/nfl/2011/11/studs-and-duds-offense-redskins-bills#ixzz1cVBZwoaW

Moreover, if I recall correctly, Aikman pointed out that receivers were getting open and that perhaps Rex might come back in the game. Aikman was not exactly pro-Beck all day long. Moreover, there's a number of folks that revisited the game tape and saw Beck fail to identify the right receiver, even though they were blaming the O-line during the game (most notably the author of this HogsHaven article and John Keim in the article above).

[grego]

If you are really studying this game you will notice that sometimes the Bill's only had to send 3 guy's to put Beck on his ass. Not 4. So where are the other guys? Well they are back in coverage.

i thought i counted at least 5 (probably 7) times where the bills got to beck with 4. i agree with you though- if they are getting to him with 4, no wonder he is looking for open WR's.

now, thats not to say he is not partially responsible for his performance. there were several sacks where he needed to get rid of it. but, under the circumstances, i'm willing to see how this drama plays out.

---------- Post added November-1st-2011 at 08:24 PM ----------

It could also be a function of an offense that reads high to low

i could be wrong, but i thought i read that this is actually how the QB is supposed to read.

[Lavarleap56]

"…Here’s another stat: Beck unloaded six of his 44 passes in under two seconds (unofficially of course). Now' date=' this could be a function of he and the receivers not being in sync or him not completely trusting them yet. It could also be a function of an offense that reads high to low. [b'] Meanwhile, Buffalo’s Ryan Fitzpatrick, by comparison, threw the ball in less than two seconds (unofficially) on 16 of his 28 pass attempts.[/b] He was playing behind a reshuffled line, had one receiver out with an injury."

http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/nfl/2011/11/studs-and-duds-offense-redskins-bills#ixzz1cVBZwoaW

Moreover, if I recall correctly, Aikman pointed out that receivers were getting open and that perhaps Rex might come back in the game. Aikman was not exactly pro-Beck all day long. Moreover, there's a number of folks that revisited the game tape and saw Beck fail to identify the right receiver, even though they were blaming the O-line during the game (most notably the author of this HogsHaven article and John Keim in the article above).

Really?

:munchout:

Oh even this guy thinks becks the issue since some want to attack knowledge..

---------- Post added November-2nd-2011 at 12:32 AM ----------

I know my football and I am surronded by people who who survived on football.

[petedaddy]

Pete come on bro lol I admire your positivity but beck is horrible. I already cant wait for april so we can draft a qb and all the Beck love will disappear.

You could very well be right that Beck is horrible and will continue to be horrible. My point is the guy hasn't even had a home start. It is sometimes hard for even veteran QB's to be good on the road, let alone a guy making his first start for the burgundy and gold.

My only point is let's give the guy a chance. He has hit rock bottom. Give him a chance to pick himself up and rebound, or give him a chance to dig his hole deeper without crucifying him at this point.

[G1]

Excellent analysis. I thought watching live that a lot of sacks were on Beck. He looked indecisive. That was my gut feel and this analysis confirms it.

Rex isn't the answer long term but gives us more chance to win this year. Shannahan has, however, backed himself into a corner by going to Beck so hastily.

[sportjunkie07]

this is one of the arguments that people have nearly every time when discussing a bad qb.

is it the oline, or is it the qb?

i have always thought that it's both, but 9 sacks in unacceptable. rex would not have allowed that to happen.

and one of the side affects a beck run offense has is that is kills the defense. you cant have consistent 3 and outs or 2-3 minute drives, give your D bad field position, and expect the defense to play well the entire game. its unrealistic, even if you have a good defense (which i believe we do have).

[Lavarleap56]

And no im not D.Grant before anyone asks...

---------- Post added November-2nd-2011 at 12:38 AM ----------

You could very well be right that Beck is horrible and will continue to be horrible. My point is the guy hasn't even had a home start. It is sometimes hard for even veteran QB's to be good on the road, let alone a guy making his first start for the burgundy and gold.

My only point is let's give the guy a chance. He has hit rock bottom. Give him a chance to pick himself up and rebound, or give him a chance to dig his hole deeper without crucifying him at this point.

0-8 for his career and the guys dont believe in him right now.

[mistertim]

I completely agree. And we have no idea how many of the receivers were covered up giving him 0 options.

The problem with your complaints about the receivers being covered and giving him 0 options is that the article in the OP showed multiple frames on MULTIPLE SACKS where there were guys WIDE OPEN; as in "nobody within 5 yards of him" wide open. On more than one occasion there was more than one guy obviously open. But Beck seemed to completely miss them and just kept looking at his initial target or at a specific area, and eventually taking the sack because of it.

[GO HAMSKINS]

I completely agree. And we have no idea how many of the receivers were covered up giving him 0 options. I think what annoys me the most is that here is Troy Aikman, announcer for the game pointing out the horrible Skins O line play, and the fact that all the receivers were covered up. He said over and over no QB could be effective faced with a similar predicament. I mean he was watching the game same us with a sure as hell better view. And I love when folks talk about JB not having a pocket presence. What pocket did he have to step up in, step to the side of etc? Counting the time it took for their D to get on JB, which was less then 2.5 seconds, which superman QB in this league could evenn set and throw with that rush? If you are really studying this game you will notice that sometimes the Bill's only had to send 3 guy's to put Beck on his ass. Not 4. So where are the other guys? Well they are back in coverage. At least be honest here. I get that we do not have a franchise QB. I get the disgust for our current and past coaches QB choices I really do, but we have so many issues on this team. And you know when I look back at the Skins when I was younger and we were dominant, what we had was the HOGS. I will take a serviceable QB with a superior O line any day of the week.

And Boom there it is! You're a breath of fresh air my man!

---------- Post added November-1st-2011 at 09:19 PM ----------

Then why has it been put on beck by mike then ? Hate rex so much beck looks awesome, you guys are wild.

No,Don't even like JB. Just some have become so scorned they actually think that Rex Grossman (the Nfl's worst rated passer before) his benching is Joe Montana now ha! How did Rex preform with this same OL 4 int's sack after sack? Yeah, I guess you guys are right though are BACKUP OL will all be in the Pro Bowl this year. Especially after teams view the tape on the Buffalo game. They will look at the film and say...wait a minute these guys are all pros being hurt by the poor play of JB. Laughable really,but you guys are very entertaining please do continue on

[Diesel__44]

Man this guy is showing pics of a 3 yard "checkdown" pass on a 3 n freaking 7 HA! Freaking ridiculous! If you think this guy knows his stuff, or this was a good write up, then you must be a clown. This was a piece of garbage

Actually UkRedskin does about 4 QUALITY posts per week over at HogsHaven and each one is meticulous in detail and very objective. You sir know less than nothing..

[GO HAMSKINS]

Where in the NFL rulebook does it say we can't draft a QB and OL the same year? Are OL and WR's not available in FA? Are there not future drafts we can continue building the team around the QB.

Don't be obtuse. OL is a problem as is the lack of offensive playmakers. QB is a bigger problem. We have mediocre players at WR and most of the OL positions. We have a horrible player under center and a bad one backing him up.

SMFH did you see what happened on here when MS said he really liked Cam Newton? Go bump up the threads and just read and read more. Then maybe you'll get it. Es fans were going ape **** over the fact we might have drafted Cam. Just imagine we did, how many bust threads will be going on here as of right now? I'm all in when it comes to drafting a QB, but I don't want to draft just any QB just to say 'hey we drafted a QB". We need OL men fast, along with a good Wr. Funny thing is this we could have drafted Arron Rogers,but if he under preformed in his first two games then what? Are Skins fans patient enough to wait to see if a franchise QB is really a franchise QB? Probably not. We would take two bad losses in a row before we would start ranting about how much of a bust the QB is ,and how we could have drafted some other rookie QB

who is playing good for another team.SmFH same Skins fans every year. Predictable and emotional! Emotion is a hell of a drug

[grego]

The problem with your complaints about the receivers being covered and giving him 0 options is that the article in the OP showed multiple frames on MULTIPLE SACKS where there were guys WIDE OPEN; as in "nobody within 5 yards of him" wide open. On more than one occasion there was more than one guy obviously open. But Beck seemed to completely miss them and just kept looking at his initial target or at a specific area, and eventually taking the sack because of it.

i agree that there were 2 times where it appeared there was a WR or 2 open in the frame. while there are multiple reasons a QB wont always see them like we do looking at film, beck absolutely needs to do a better job of finding the open guy.

but i also see that most of the sacks were on a 4 man rush. that makes it that much harder to find an open guy. hopefully, beck will get rid of the ball quicker in the future. or, how wont and we'll have a chance at luck

[CliffBattles]

John Beck is the worst starting QB in the NFL not named Tebow. He sucks.

[GO HAMSKINS]

Actually UkRedskin does about 4 QUALITY posts per week over at HogsHaven and each one is meticulous in detail and very objective. You sir no less than nothing..

Wow now Im very hurt (sarcasm) Proof is in the pudding my man. The write up alone was bias, and just flat out ridiculous. Kudos to you for being naive enough to fall for the bait. When it's all said and done I will stand alone in the correct corner, while others will sit quiet in the corner of the ashamed and confused. I'll laugh when I come on here to watch others change there opinions and further contradict themselves.So far my track record is amazing. You say no less than nothing...Im confused? Did you mean KNOW less than nothing? Yet, you would like me to take you serious. SMGDH

---------- Post added November-1st-2011 at 09:43 PM ----------

John Beck is the worst starting QB in the NFL not named Tebow. He sucks.

Guess who one of the NFL worst rated QB....Answer Rex Grossman ding ding ding

[Diesel__44]

Wow now Im very hurt (sarcasm) Proof is in the pudding my man. The write up alone was bias, and just flat out ridiculous. Kudos to you for being naive enough to fall for the bait. When it's all said and done I will stand alone in the correct corner, while others will sit quiet in the corner of the ashamed and confused. I'll laugh when I come on here to watch others change there opinions and further contradict themselves.So far my track record is amazing. You say no less than nothing...Im confused? Did you mean KNOW less than nothing? Yet, you would like me to take you serious. SMGDH

---------- Post added November-1st-2011 at 09:43 PM ----------

Guess who one of the NFL worst rated QB....Answer Rex Grossman ding ding ding

I'm sorry for engaging you in any type of dialogue. Clearly we watched a different game on Sunday and it's possible that the breakdown on the post was difficult for you to understand. BTW, you're already "standing in a corner all alone".

From Keim: Here’s the breakdown on how many players the Bills rushed on the 44 pass drop backs (there were three bootlegs) and Beck’s numbers in each situation:

1. Three players: two times. Beck: 2-2, 23 yards.

2. Four players: 29 times. Beck: 13-29, 141 yards, one interception, a fumble and six sacks.

3. Five players: three times. Beck: 0-3.

4. Six players: seven times. Beck: 2-5, 20 yards, one interception, two sacks.

Note: The ninth sack occurred on a bootleg.

[Dirt]

0-8 for his career and the guys dont believe in him right now.

I do find it odd that no one ran with the news of Santana supporting Rex. That just blew over like it didn't matter. Seems to be very important as it turns out.

[Zazzaro703]

Beck sucks flat out and its been known since he was in miami. Players even think he sucks and the energy is gone.

This is ALL I needed to hear. I suspected it and have said it several times. The defense played their hearts out to give Rex a chance to come back against Philly because they believed in him. Players then defend him and want him to have another chance, but we bench him and now the defense is uninspired and we are playing poorly. If Beck plays this weekend the season is completely lost. How people can think Beck should get another start is completely lost on me. I saw nothing worth taking another look at during a live game unless Rex is hurt.

[skins2victory]

Cant win with Beck and cant win with Grossman....

Grossman throws INT like no other...

And

Beck, takes sacks like no other...

Grossman had 9 sacks over 4 games, freaking Beck has like 13 in 2 and 1 quarter

Well I agree Grossman is far from the best..... Grossman was 3-2.... so he can find ways to win, Beck is 0-2.....

---------- Post added November-1st-2011 at 09:11 PM ----------

This is ALL I needed to hear. I suspected it and have said it several times. The defense played their hearts out to give Rex a chance to come back against Philly because they believed in him. Players then defend him and want him to have another chance, but we bench him and now the defense is uninspired and we are playing poorly. If Beck plays this weekend the season is completely lost. How people can think Beck should get another start is completely lost on me. I saw nothing worth taking another look at during a live game unless Rex is hurt.

I completly agree!!! The last thing I want to do the rest of this year is watch my favorite team playing uninspired........

[Lavarleap56]

And Boom there it is! You're a breath of fresh air my man!

---------- Post added November-1st-2011 at 09:19 PM ----------

No,Don't even like JB. Just some have become so scorned they actually think that Rex Grossman (the Nfl's worst rated passer before) his benching is Joe Montana now ha! How did Rex preform with this same OL 4 int's sack after sack? Yeah, I guess you guys are right though are BACKUP OL will all be in the Pro Bowl this year. Especially after teams view the tape on the Buffalo game. They will look at the film and say...wait a minute these guys are all pros being hurt by the poor play of JB. Laughable really,but you guys are very entertaining please do continue on

since you quoted me i assume your speaking to me so exactly where did i post anything you said?

Alot of people from Coaches, Players, Reporters, Former Players are starting to chime in after the dust settled from sunday and the conclusion is Beck Didnt help the OL or his team out. I know all of the possible excuses from First start to Injured players and so on but the fact remains John Beck didnt get it done as pointed out in this thread, meeting rooms at Redskins Park and comments begining to leak to the press. I think and have thought John Beck just doesnt have the tools to be a quality starter in this league. Rex Grossman i was 50-50 on and thought he had the tools to be a bridge to a rookie and somewhat still do. I by no means think Rex is anything more than a streaky qb who can give you 3 TDs just as much as he can snatch defeat from the jaws of victory at any moment but he does one thing Beck doesnt and thats have 52 guys believe they have a change with 8 at qb. The term winning despite Rex is often used to describe any victories his team has had and to some point its a true statement but the players believe they can survive rexs swings and make enough plays to be in it. John Beck talks the talk and wants it bad but the guys dont feel they can win despite him and its shown on the field in all phases.

Grossman brings Interceptions but since hes been in dc most of the time he brings drives, points, t.o.p ect that help our defense. John Beck taking 3 and outs and taking sacks is doing nothing but take a defense thats strength and build right now is playing with a lead and helping it get run over. All of this may be a huge coincidence and the results would be the same had Rex stayed in the game but from opinions ive heard and my own i dont think so because it all turned around that moment when Beck got his shot. At the end of the day i dont personally care if we go with Beck or Rex because ive been hunting for the choosen one on saturdays for awhile now but if i had to pick one it would be Rex because of the guys believe in him and his faults even if its because the devil you know is better than the one you dont.

P.S. you forgot a period at the end of your story since you like to call everyones writing out and OL men would of looked better as offensive lineman.

[DieselPwr44]

Thanks for the insight LL56.

Much appreciated.

[grego]

LL, i appreciate your insight, and i dont doubt what you say, but, color me stumped as to why players believe in rex and not beck. and this is coming from a guy who's defended rex for the better part of the last year. hell, i even defended his INT's (2 of them, anyway) vs philly.

rex's play has been declining since week 1 and at least appears to be the turnover machine people said he was, despite my hopes and arguments to the contrary. wasnt he the 32nd ranked QB in the NFL? beck at least appears to have some upside and has the excuse of lack of game experience.

is beck just a douche personality wise, or what?

[Lavarleap56]

LL, i appreciate your insight, and i dont doubt what you say, but, color me stumped as to why players believe in rex and not beck. and this is coming from a guy who's defended rex for the better part of the last year. hell, i even defended his INT's (2 of them, anyway) vs philly.

rex's play has been declining since week 1 and at least appears to be the turnover machine people said he was, despite my hopes and arguments to the contrary. wasnt he the 32nd ranked QB in the NFL? beck at least appears to have some upside and has the excuse of lack of game experience.

is beck just a douche personality wise, or what?

Ive heard alot of different things but the most common is Rex has the ability and knows the system better and they trust him. I have not heard anyone say anything negative about becks personna and imo hes pretty cool. I know it sounds simple and generic but guys frequently say hes the better QB and he knows the offense. Shanahan lives on preaching to the players that the best guys day in and day out will play and to a man they believe Rex showed since last year, camp, Pre-season, and to start the year hes the best qb on this roster right now. Guys dont care about upside right now they care about accomplishing a goal for this season and Rex is a part of that to them. Players are watching to see if Mike really means " best players play mantra" or if its lip service..

---------- Post added November-2nd-2011 at 02:51 AM ----------

Thanks for the insight LL56.

Much appreciated.

No problem, i just like to hear myself talk.

[Newera]

Dude ... you've got 40 posts defending Beck in this thread alone. That's literally 20% of the posts so far.

I recommend less sugar on the crunchberries.

Yes, and do you ever post in a thread that's not about the quarterback. Just Sayin (Smile)

---------- Post added November-1st-2011 at 11:09 PM ----------

Oh no, I'm not sayig anything positive about Jim Zorn. Where are all the injuries on defense? we had the same defense for Rex and their just playing like **it right now, period. And screw whatever oline injuries your talking about. they are all professional players and need to step it up. Your only talking about 2 players injured not counting cooley. We shouldn't be abondoning the run so fast either. how come every team with bad run defense and we don't run? answer that. its because of Kyles pass happy play calling thats why. Beck sucks period. So does Rex. But I will take Rex any day over Beck. I guarentee here and now that Beck will suck @$$ against SF. And it's a very good possiblty that you will see Rex by the end of the game. Rex has 2 int's that were his fault up to the philly implosion. I don't blame shanny for putting beck in there. But after buffalo game can you really say beck is better than rex? come on. what are you seeing? oh and I would take JC over Rex and Beck anyday.

Wow, Jason. That's how low our self esteem is when it comes to quarterbacks.