HogsHaven: A Look at All 9 Sacks by the Bills Against the Redskins

[Hitman21ST]

the worst QB? so far? lol big time.. how is that possible? they are rookies. Gabbert has only played like 3 games. Cam is messing it up for all rookies. lol. I hope Luck is good from the jump cause after 3 games he will be considered a bust

Even if you take Newton out of the equation, Gabbert is still having the worst season. Both Ponder and Dalton are doing better than him. You can't possibly think that they're hardly better than Gabbert. By any measurement he's the worst of the group. He's barely completing 45% of his passes. If that's your standard, you need to raise the bar.

[GO HAMSKINS]

This is sad. We been having terrible QB play so long. Anybody could come in and we would blaim it on the Oline. Who are we kidding? We havent seen a good QB in like 20 years. We act as if beck is peyton on a bad team

Yeah,your logic make so much sense. Let's never draft any OL ever again.We will only draft Qb's until one of them actually turns are Oline into All Pros? I see what you are trying to say ,and yeah, can a good Qb make an average Oline look better absolutely. A Bad OL can make Tom Brady look like John Beck! See the SB against the NYG.Brady,who has a great OL, but not on that day looked just as bad as Beck missing wide open Randy Moss,fumbling,holding on to ball trying to make a play. Hell , We had 26 FREAKING RUSHING YARDS sorry people but thats not all on JB

[Redskindon2]

He looked good on 2 straight drives in the carolina game. Couldnt have done it better actually.

I absolutly agree with Hamskins.

The bills are rushing 4 and getting pressure, Beck is throwing to 4 recievers with 7 people in coverage. Yea...thats a recipe for success....Are you guys serious?

Did beck look lost? Absolutly Why? O-line

After your guys get manhandled like that the QB can no longer look good. Its happened to every QB in the league, When a team gets that kind of pressure, you just cant pass the football.

Reguardless of the actual sack total, the number of pressures and times beck got hit are absolutly pitiful. Anyone who thinks the o-line did its job for even one snap in this football game is just not football smart.

go back and look at the picutres again with the breakdowns of each sack. I'm not saying the oline is great, but with Beck sucking so bad, that's the cause. He creadits the oline for 2 of the sacks and Beck for 7. I agree after looking at it. You can say Rex turns it over too much with int's but at least he would take a chance and throw the ball sooner. And with all the receivers who were wide open in front of him he may have made quite a few more completions than good ol Beck.

[GO HAMSKINS]

did you look at the film dude. there were WRs open. He just didnt get it to them. He kept looking down field. You have to be accurate to hit those slant. Im taking beck knows hes not good enough to risk throws like that so he doesent consider it.

Not saying some of the blame is not on him. Im just saying when posting ridiculous pics of 3 of the starting OL on their backs and Rb chipping off on the wrong guy isn't on the QB. Yes,Beck missed some open targets as well as 15 other good Qb's did as well in the league. Just saying

[pilsburypgh]

Yeah,your logic make so much sense. Let's never draft any OL ever again.We will only draft Qb's until one of them actually turns are Oline into All Pros? I see what you are trying to say ,and yeah, can a good Qb make an average Oline look better absolutely. A Bad OL can make Tom Brady look like John Beck! See the SB against the NYG.Brady,who has a great OL, but not on that day looked just as bad as Beck missing wide open Randy Moss,fumbling,holding on to ball trying to make a play. Hell , We had 26 FREAKING RUSHING YARDS sorry people but thats not all on JB

so your saying the Pats are only good cause of their Oline? If you put beck on Pats he would be like Brady?lol. good logic. if thats the case why come when peytons playing the colts Oline, WRs, RBs look better. Now with Painter, They look like a bunch of rejects. They look like US. lol. wonder why? Oh yea we have Curtis Painter QBs on our team.

[Hitman21ST]

Yeah,your logic make so much sense. Let's never draft any OL ever again.We will only draft Qb's until one of them actually turns are Oline into All Pros? I see what you are trying to say ,and yeah, can a good Qb make an average Oline look better absolutely. A Bad OL can make Tom Brady look like John Beck! See the SB against the NYG.Brady,who has a great OL, but not on that day looked just as bad as Beck missing wide open Randy Moss,fumbling,holding on to ball trying to make a play. Hell , We had 26 FREAKING RUSHING YARDS sorry people but thats not all on JB

Ham, I definitely understand where you're coming from, and by no means am I putting it solely on Beck, but Beck is at fault for a lot of the sacks. Yeah, the OL was pretty darn bad, but Beck wasn't helping by holding onto the ball entirely too long. Hypothetically, if we had Brady or Manning, there probably would have been four sacks, give or take. On the others, the ball would have been thrown. We need OL help, definitely, but we need QB help more.

[SkinsFTW]

Who cares really? Both QB's suck. Grossman at best would have gotten the ball away on 3-4 of those sacks and probably thrown 2 extra Ints as well. It doesn't matter which one starts, we aren't winning even 8 games this year. Who is really surprised? I've always figured we'd win 6-8 this year and we could be even worse with Beck in there. Could be Shanahans way of sucking for a better draft pick.

[GO HAMSKINS]

Huh? After 9 sacks and the horrible play by Beck and you still think he's better? What are you watching. At least Rex won his 1st 3 games. Beck has won 0 games so far. Watch him lose this sunday and see if you still want him.

JC started a season with Zorn as his coach and did better than any QB we had in years.Your point is? We won all but 1 of those games with Rex having the worst QB rating in the NFL your point? We would have beat the Panthers in that game if Beck had the Team that Rex had in that 3-1 start.When guys didn't fumble in the clutch,when the defense was the 3rd in the nfl(ranked) not the Defense that can't stop a nose bleed. When we were running for hundreds of yards not running for 26 FREAKING yards. If Rex could have won with all of those odds then I see your Point. FyI based off your own logic Jim Zorn is a better coach the MS cause he had a better record at this point in time. We all know that this was not the case.

[Wrong Direction]

Not saying some of the blame is not on him. Im just saying when posting ridiculous pics of 3 of the starting OL on their backs and Rb chipping off on the wrong guy isn't on the QB. Yes,Beck missed some open targets as well as 15 other good Qb's did as well in the league. Just saying

Thanks for adding spaces after your periods. Now if you did so after your commas too, it would make your posts MUCH easier to read. Seriously, I'm not trying to nitpick every grammatical thing on any site, but yours are hard to follow.

Now, to the OP...it's obvious to me, both watching the game and reading the article, that Beck is terrible. LL chiming in helps confirm that Santana was right and we should stick with Grossman (who's also pretty terrible, but less bad than Beck).

This offseason, there will be several promising QBs available. That really needs to be our #1 priority.

[pilsburypgh]

Yeah,your logic make so much sense. Let's never draft any OL ever again.We will only draft Qb's until one of them actually turns are Oline into All Pros? I see what you are trying to say ,and yeah, can a good Qb make an average Oline look better absolutely. A Bad OL can make Tom Brady look like John Beck! See the SB against the NYG.Brady,who has a great OL, but not on that day looked just as bad as Beck missing wide open Randy Moss,fumbling,holding on to ball trying to make a play. Hell , We had 26 FREAKING RUSHING YARDS sorry people but thats not all on JB

Your D has to have to Play good on all phases to disrupt brady. that means secondary too. wasnt just giants pass rush they played well as an entire unit. cant rely on pas rush only with good QBs like Brady or you will get burned. And Its hard to run the ball when your QB cant read defenses, or beat a blitz. Now defenses can focus on the run more than the pass. Not much of a threat at QB. Kurt warner was very good at beating blitzes. made defenses play the pass. makin the run a threat. now you have a two headed monster on offense. But now that warners gone. Fitzgerald is like average. and so is the rest of the team.

[GO HAMSKINS]

Ham, I definitely understand where you're coming from, and by no means am I putting it solely on Beck, but Beck is at fault for a lot of the sacks. Yeah, the OL was pretty darn bad, but Beck wasn't helping by holding onto the ball entirely too long. Hypothetically, if we had Brady or Manning, there probably would have been four sacks, give or take. On the others, the ball would have been thrown. We need OL help, definitely, but we need QB help more.

I absolutely agree with you bro. 100% even. Im just saying the Oline and the team as a whole is not the same 3-1 team.We are playing bad both sides of the ball,and the Oline has taken a major step backwards

[Hitman21ST]

But now that warners gone. Fitzgerald is like average.

This right there is absolutely, blatantly, false, in every sense of the word.

[GaryGreenMonk]

that is exactly how I percieved it watching in real time..

the freeze frames just confirm what I already thought.

the coaches have to see it too.... its obvious that Rex gives you a better chance to win at this point, so Beck staying in the game essentially means they are tanking the season for a QB

[GO HAMSKINS]

Your D has to have to Play good on all phases to disrupt brady. that means secondary too. wasnt just giants pass rush they played well as an entire unit. cant rely on pas rush only with good QBs like Brady or you will get burned. And Its hard to run the ball when your QB cant read defenses, or beat a blitz. Now defenses can focus on the run more than the pass. Not much of a threat at QB. Kurt warner was very good at beating blitzes. made defenses play the pass. makin the run a threat. now you have a two headed monster on offense. But now that warners gone. Fitzgerald is like average. and so is the rest of the team.

Yeah I hear ya bro.Im not pissing on what you're trying to say cause I kinda agree with you.When we get a QB we will be better,but we still need OL and a legit WR to go along with Moss.So far I like Hankerson & Austin.Paul too.

[Redskindon2]

JC started a season with Zorn as his coach and did better than any QB we had in years.Your point is? We won all but 1 of those games with Rex having the worst QB rating in the NFL your point? We would have beat the Panthers in that game if Beck had the Team that Rex had in that 3-1 start.When guys didn't fumble in the clutch,when the defense was the 3rd in the nfl(ranked) not the Defense that can't stop a nose bleed. When we were running for hundreds of yards not running for 26 FREAKING yards. If Rex could have won with all of those odds then I see your Point. FyI based off your own logic Jim Zorn is a better coach the MS cause he had a better record at this point in time. We all know that this was not the case.

Oh no, I'm not sayig anything positive about Jim Zorn. Where are all the injuries on defense? we had the same defense for Rex and their just playing like **it right now, period. And screw whatever oline injuries your talking about. they are all professional players and need to step it up. Your only talking about 2 players injured not counting cooley. We shouldn't be abondoning the run so fast either. how come every team with bad run defense and we don't run? answer that. its because of Kyles pass happy play calling thats why. Beck sucks period. So does Rex. But I will take Rex any day over Beck. I guarentee here and now that Beck will suck @$$ against SF. And it's a very good possiblty that you will see Rex by the end of the game. Rex has 2 int's that were his fault up to the philly implosion. I don't blame shanny for putting beck in there. But after buffalo game can you really say beck is better than rex? come on. what are you seeing? oh and I would take JC over Rex and Beck anyday.

[GO HAMSKINS]

Thanks for adding spaces after your periods. Now if you did so after your commas too, it would make your posts MUCH easier to read. Seriously, I'm not trying to nitpick every grammatical thing on any site, but yours are hard to follow.

Now, to the OP...it's obvious to me, both watching the game and reading the article, that Beck is terrible. LL chiming in helps confirm that Santana was right and we should stick with Grossman (who's also pretty terrible, but less bad than Beck).

This offseason, there will be several promising QBs available. That really needs to be our #1 priority.

Sorry dude. I don't know if you ever heard of comedian Patrice Oneal but in his elephant in the room show he does a bit on " How he always taught typing classes were for gays and now he doesn't no how to type" I fit in this category with Trice ha!

[pilsburypgh]

Yeah I hear ya bro.Im not pissing on what you're trying to say cause I kinda agree with you.When we get a QB we will be better,but we still need OL and a legit WR to go along with Moss.So far I like Hankerson & Austin.Paul too.

I agree We do need improvements all on the offensive side. I would like to get sum bigger WRs. I actually think we need a more Elite RB. Oline need depth

[Redskindon2]

I don't think theirs much of a question on moving up, but how much do you give up to move up? Would you give up your (2012 and 2013 1st & 2nd round picks) for someone like Luck? I wouldn't let someone else mortgage their future for him. I would prefer a QB who's good, but may not be as talented as Luck, yet still be able to build the team around him.

---------- Post added November-1st-2011 at 12:53 PM ----------

I can't believe i'm about to agree with this... But, I tend to agree. Beck was playing scared in that game. The Oline wasn't perfect, by any means, but wasn't as bad as others suppose.

I guess you do whatever it takes to get Luck. That would be expensive giving up all those good picks but if they can manage good deals with other picks left and fill in other holes with those picks then it would be worth it. Who else is out there of any value besides Luck? I'm sure there's other good QB's out there but Luck seems to be the holy grail this year.

[GO HAMSKINS]

Oh no, I'm not sayig anything positive about Jim Zorn. Where are all the injuries on defense? we had the same defense for Rex and their just playing like **it right now, period. And screw whatever oline injuries your talking about. they are all professional players and need to step it up. Your only talking about 2 players injured not counting cooley. We shouldn't be abondoning the run so fast either. how come every team with bad run defense and we don't run? answer that. its because of Kyles pass happy play calling thats why. Beck sucks period. So does Rex. But I will take Rex any day over Beck. I guarentee here and now that Beck will suck @$$ against SF. And it's a very good possiblty that you will see Rex by the end of the game. Rex has 2 int's that were his fault up to the philly implosion. I don't blame shanny for putting beck in there. But after buffalo game can you really say beck is better than rex? come on. what are you seeing? oh and I would take JC over Rex and Beck anyday.

I raise this Question to you What the hell is Rex suppose to do better? When OL are getting knocked down completely he will either take sack/fumble or throw int's this is RG history. Rex is who we know he is. If you wanna crown him be my guess just realize we better off seeing what JB can do then waste time on RG again

[pilsburypgh]

I guess you do whatever it takes to get Luck. That would be expensive giving up all those good picks but if they can manage good deals with other picks left and fill in other holes with those picks then it would be worth it. Who else is out there of any value besides Luck? I'm sure there's other good QB's out there but Luck seems to be the holy grail this year.

honestly i would pull the trigger its been a long time coming for redskinsnation. plus we would get all the media attention..lol

[Redskindon2]

Yeah,your logic make so much sense. Let's never draft any OL ever again.We will only draft Qb's until one of them actually turns are Oline into All Pros? I see what you are trying to say ,and yeah, can a good Qb make an average Oline look better absolutely. A Bad OL can make Tom Brady look like John Beck! See the SB against the NYG.Brady,who has a great OL, but not on that day looked just as bad as Beck missing wide open Randy Moss,fumbling,holding on to ball trying to make a play. Hell , We had 26 FREAKING RUSHING YARDS sorry people but thats not all on JB

we need a QB period. And we need to run the ball, more and better, period. We have drafted 1st round QB's over the last 20 years, they are just bad choices. We need to move up and get the best one possible this year. If that means sell the house to get Luck, do it. Pay the piper later. We have quite a few picks coming this year so we could still wheel and deal them into more. Also, don't forget free agency. We could get someone there also. I believe they could do well this year by getting Luck and others...get the QB now and build around him while he's geting NFL experience. Your know pretty fast if he's going to make a difference or not. Look a Cam newton. He;s playing very well even though he's losing. Imagine what he would have looked like if there wasn't a lock out. All those mini camps and full camp during the summer. He's doing awesome for only 4 weeks prep before the season started.

[GO HAMSKINS]

we need a QB period. And we need to run the ball, more and better, period. We have drafted 1st round QB's over the last 20 years, they are just bad choices. We need to move up and get the best one possible this year. If that means sell the house to get Luck, do it. Pay the piper later. We have quite a few picks coming this year so we could still wheel and deal them into more. Also, don't forget free agency. We could get someone there also. I believe they could do well this year by getting Luck and others...get the QB now and build around him while he's geting NFL experience. Your know pretty fast if he's going to make a difference or not. Look a Cam newton. He;s playing very well even though he's losing. Imagine what he would have looked like if there wasn't a lock out. All those mini camps and full camp during the summer. He's doing awesome for only 4 weeks prep before the season started.

I hear ya. Funny you bring up Cam.There are pages on here when people said that Cam wasn't any good and would be a bum. Fact that many said Beck is a much better QB than Cam is. Funny how things have change. Thats why I'll reiterate Emotion is a hell of a drug

[ginsu101]

Guys, let me start by saying that I'm not a Beck or Grossman hater. This article had facts, but also a strong bias against Beck. A key question that I have is how much time does our QB have in the pocket befoe pressure. I think that would also be valuable in evaluating a QB. If our QB is getting Tom Brady time in the pocket, then I would also ask if the receivers are getting open. If so, then I would ask why the hell our QB can't connect on the passes. If our QB is not getting good time in the pocket, then we need to look at why that is.

[Laxpunk2006]

LOL If Beck had that team Rex had,he would have won 3 games too. The Cards and STL ? laughable.OH the NYG who prove that they can lose on any given sunday? Beck is a bum.Yes,I'll will agree with that statement. Just look at the game before this one.The game Beck scored 20 on? With Wr's dropping passes,Defense played horrible,and we kept turning the ball over,not to mention no runniing game at all.Yet we still almost came out that game with a victory.You are trying to tell me REX would have won a game like that? really? Basically it's like your saying MS has less wins in his career as the Skins coach ,then did Jim Zorn and Steve Spurrier,but I guess that IYO means that they are better NFL coaches than MS right? Based off your logic.SMH

No running game? Hightower was averaging 5+ a carry against Carolina.

I recognize your analogy and raise you reality lol. Good point ,but to be fair The PATS lost Tom Brady and still went 10-6 with an average Qb.Also Then are you saying that Sam Bradford is a Average QB as well? He gets sacked all the time. My impression on Bradford was this ,If you had a Oline he would be lighting things up.Hell according to your logic let's never draft a single O linemen again, Lets only draft QB's untill we find one that turns these scrubs into All Pro players. Smh

Hyperbole isn't helping the discussion. No one is suggesting that the OL is not vital to success or that we shouldn't address it in the future. Most posters are simply suggesting that QB is a larger hole than OL at the moment. While our OL is poor some, not all, of their deficiencies could be covered by better QB play. A QB that is capable of feeling pressure and moving in the pocket, or getting rid of the ball whether it is to a reciever or out of bounds could both limit the sacks we give up.

[Atlanta Skins Fan]

Im definitely blaming the Oline bro.

Dude ... you've got 40 posts defending Beck in this thread alone. That's literally 20% of the posts so far.

I recommend less sugar on the crunchberries.