Yahoo Sports: Shanahan stumbling after wrong decisions at QB

[#98QBKiller]

The article can say that, and to a point, it's accurate. Shanahan hasn't added a quarterback...

But who would he have added? Which FA should he have added this year? Which QB should he have added in the draft? FA would be tough, they would have had virtually no time to learn the system. Carson Palmer proved last week you can't just plug and play.

In the draft, Newton and Locker likely would have fit. Newton was way out of reach, Locker went early, Ponder went early. That left us with Gabbert, who Shanahan clearly didn't want, as he traded his rights away, essentially. And for the record, not that my football opinion is anywhere near Shanahan's, but I agree with that move.

What were the other options this past year?

His screw up was on McNabb and not getting a young QB instead. But since McNabb, there have been few options... Until this years offseason.

I didn't claim to have any answers but with the importance of QB in this league, Shanahan's decision making at that position has proven to have been terrible up until this point: trading Jason Campbell, wasting a valuable 2nd round pick on McNabb and having it blow up in your face, not drafting a young QB to develop this past April, going into the 2011 season with only two backup QBs on the roster, etc.

I'm not saying I wanted him to keep Campbell or that I wasn't excited about the McNabb trade but he's made several bad decisions at that position thus far.

---------- Post added October-26th-2011 at 10:14 AM ----------

I think this offseason will define Mike Shanahan. He needs to hit on a QB, post a winning record next year and at least be a 6th seed playoff team. He also needs to fire his son and either call the plays himself or find someone else.

If these things don't happen then he will be gone after next season.

I think he just needs to hit on a QB. Plenty of great QBs have had bad first seasons so I'm not expecting playoffs even if we do find the right guy, but he has to hit on a QB this offseason IMO.

[KDawg]

I didn't claim to have any answers but with the importance of QB in this league, Shanahan's decision making at that position has proven to have been terrible up until this point: trading Jason Campbell

Was that really a bad move? Campbell would have been mediocre here. Probably better than Grossman and McNabb, but not great.

wasting a valuable 2nd round pick on McNabb and having it blow up in your face

This one I agree with.

not drafting a young QB to develop this past April

There was no one to draft.

going into the 2011 season with only two backup QBs on the roster, etc.

There were no better FA options.

Some of these aren't "bad" decisions, their decisions you didn't agree with. That does not make them bad.

I didn't agree with McNabb, turned out I was right. *shrug*

Got lucky.

[authentic]

Because the play calling has been terrible and predictable for the most part this season. I have found myself scratching my head more times than when Zorn was calling the plays.

I also feel Kyle cares more about being a Genius offensive coordinator than he cares about winning games. He seemed to be calling plays thinking he had Joe Montana instead of Rex Grossman behind center.

"Predictable"? IDK bro, I think for the most part we've had a healthy balance btwn run vs pass, especially this past game. You can argue that we ran the ball for the entire 1st half of the game. But at some point you have to throw the ball. This is how teams put points on the board. Bear in mind, this not (3 yards and a cloud of dust, circa 1985). So i really don't see where the problem is with the play calling. I think the issue is with a lack of playmakers at the skill positions outside of Freddy.

"Genius O.C."? I honestly don't see how you can qualify that. I'm at a loss to this accusation.

[washedup2]

he'll be here 5 years, at some point you need to let things develop

[Forever21]

Because the play calling has been terrible and predictable for the most part this season. I have found myself scratching my head more times than when Zorn was calling the plays.

I also feel Kyle cares more about being a Genius offensive coordinator than he cares about winning games. He seemed to be calling plays thinking he had Joe Montana instead of Rex Grossman behind center.

Being in Nova Scotia I have to watch a lot of Pats games. And I believe that they have some of the most predictable play calling in the league. But they cannot be stopped. Because they execute and because they have serious gamers.

Neither Shanahan is to blame for our current record. They both know what they're doing and we all knew it would take more than 22 games to right this ship.

[DCranon21]

I think this offseason will define Mike Shanahan. He needs to hit on a QB, post a winning record next year and at least be a 6th seed playoff team. He also needs to fire his son and either call the plays himself or find someone else.

If these things don't happen then he will be gone after next season.

This will not happen. He won't fire his son because they have inconsistency at the QB position. QB's coming out of the draft can't be Cam Newton, because a lot of so called draft experts missed the ball on that one. Shanahan is here for the long haul, and people need to be patient on this.

[tex]

rumor has it that Jeffery Lurie had dinner with Bill Cowher at a NYC steakhouse recently. that should light about a 6 foot high fire under Shanny's chair.

[tiger187126]

"Predictable"? IDK bro, I think for the most part we've had a healthy balance btwn run vs pass, especially this past game. You can argue that we ran the ball for the entire 1st half of the game. But at some point you have to throw the ball. This is how teams put points on the board. Bear in mind, this not (3 yards and a cloud of dust, circa 1985). So i really don't see where the problem is with the play calling. I think the issue is with a lack of playmakers at the skill positions outside of Freddy.

"Genius O.C."? I honestly don't see how you can qualify that. I'm at a loss to this accusation.

before the panthers game on twitter one of the guys who breaks down film says that kyle likes to pass on first down and that has led us to 6th in the league for average gain on first down with over 6 yards per.

good playcalling as defined by ES is when it works.

bad playcalling is when it doesn't work.

both use a heavy dose of hindsight and ignore every other aspect of a play aside from what happened. they don't even know what play was called.

[wrecker]

"Predictable"? IDK bro, I think for the most part we've had a healthy balance btwn run vs pass, especially this past game. You can argue that we ran the ball for the entire 1st half of the game. But at some point you have to throw the ball.

Ok, so if you think "balanced" is running the ball the first half and passing the ball the second half then fine.

Genius is when you go shotgun on a forth and 2. He actually thought that he was fooling someone.

[#98QBKiller]

Was that really a bad move? Campbell would have been mediocre here. Probably better than Grossman and McNabb, but not great.

By itself it wasn't a bad decision, but trading him and then trading picks for McNabb and making Rex Grossman the backup, made it a bad decision.

There was no one to draft.

This isn't true. There were a slew of QBs available to us, whether Shanahan liked them is a different story.

There were no better FA options.

I didn't say FA was the answer.

Some of these aren't "bad" decisions, their decisions you didn't agree with. That does not make them bad.

Not each decision by itself is a bad decision but as whole they become bad decisions.

[Brotherz]

I don't recall what thread I saw it in but i thought it was a really great point someone made. He said something along the lines of "I will be pissed if I don't get to the see the final act of this play".

How in the world could anyone (even Snyder) even think of getting rid of Shanahan before he has all his pieces in place. I don't even know if the record would matter all that much if I was owner at this point. I'd be giving shanny 4 or 5 years MINIMUM.

There's no way I'd allow him to completely change the defensive philosophy, get all the players for his zone running scheme, etc and ten pull the plug halfway through the process! That's insane!

They need to ride Beck this year to see who he is exactly. There are only three options:

1) He is going to completely bomb in which case his time in DC (and probably the league) are over and we will be picking in the top 5 in the draft.

2) He is going to get better and better each week. We are going to win 4 out of our last 5 games as he begins to really mature in the system and we are going to wonder whether we have a franchise QB on our hands and maybe even have a playoff birth this year as a wildcard or something. In which case, we may still draft a young QB but the urgency for Luck or Landry Jones etc won't be there and Kellen Moore or someone will be our pick. Along with a full host of picks in the other rounds we continue to draft smart, pick up another playmaking WR in draft or FA etc and continue the building process.

3) He is a middling kind of QB. He gets better but his ceiling is apparent. He is a back-up and we know it now. We win like3-4 more games and pick around 11. We either trade up or take a QB at our slot that Shanny feels good about, beck is our back up and is capable in that role and we begin the season next year with the hope of our new franchise QB.

Under ANY of these circumstances next year we should see marked improvement. If they just continue to draft smart, don't burn picks, don't sign aged vets. Don't hold onto guys longer than they should, keep us with cap flexibility, continue a culture of busines first and no drama, and keep building on a foundation of smart, selfless football players who play team first football, we will keep improving.

At the end of next year, I would definitely expect us to be contending for a playoff spot. Whether we just barely miss it, make it and go one and done, or make a surprising run to the second round, the fourth year is a year to expect Championship level performance from this team.

How could you possibly cut this off after this year as this article suggests. That's just crazy!!

[authentic]

Ok, so if you think "balanced" is running the ball the first half and passing the ball the second half then fine.

I didn't say or imply that they only ran the ball in the 1st half, i'm saying that they ran it most of the 1st half. They had success with it and stuck with the game plan. Unfortunately they didn't result in TDs. In the 3rd quarter Carolina scored 2 tds, so obviously you would need to adjust the game plan to throwing the ball more, which they did and it resulted in a TD which kept them in the game.

Genius is when you go shotgun on a forth and 2. He actually thought that he was fooling someone

Its not about fooling someone. Cook didn't pick up the blitzing LB up the middle, which resulted in the sack. Otherwise we're ranked #9 in successful 4th down conversions @ 60%. So he's been doing something right.

[SwampEm]

Shanahan isn't going anywhere. The team is heading in the right direction. Last week was the first time this year where we did not have a shot at winning or tying by having the ball with less than two minutes left.

[Forever21]

Not each decision by itself is a bad decision but as whole they become bad decisions.

But we don't know yet if they are collectively bad.

Obviously neither Shanahan was sold on the QB's in the previous draft or else we could have drafted one.

We have to assume they have a long term plan in place and they are working through it. We cannot start judging this Shanahan era of the 'Skins only 22 games in. They still have another 3 1/2 seasons to go so let's not call any decisions bad as a collective yet.

[Brotherz]

Ok, so if you think "balanced" is running the ball the first half and passing the ball the second half then fine.

Genius is when you go shotgun on a forth and 2. He actually thought that he was fooling someone.

Man, my blood was boiling on that play too. BUT, the reality is every play is easily criticized on a young team ina rebuild mode who is currently losing and injured. Was the 4th and 6 touchdown pass to moss in the corner of the endzone against Arizona genius? Only because he caught it. The flat was wide open for an easy first down and Rex went for it all. At the time it was great. It could have ended grossman's reign a week or two earlier if they missed it.

The team needs two more drafts. Two more free agency periods. Then, when its Landry Jones ligning up in shotgun and throwing on 4th and two after a fake draw that sucks the defense in and he drills a pass to Hankerson who is now a true #1 possession receiver, he looks brilliant for not just running it up the middle even though by then our running game is working well enough that either choice makes sense and is likely to work.

The eagles for so long have been critized for not running in the 3rd and short but they also have the highest percentage of big plays in that exact situation. Its a matter of talent. Everything seems worse right now because we are in year two of a four year rebuild.

[GibbsFactor]

I'm all for the Rex/Beck QB show we had this year.

#1, didn't have to reach for a QB in the draft that was mediocre.

#2. didn't have to sign a Matt Hassleback to mask the fact that we don't need some retread QB (been there done that).

#3. didn't tie the team to some horrible signal caller.

[USS Redskins]

Someone tell Kyle Shannahan that their plan was to get a QB in 2012 because he seemed to think Rex Grossman was a superstar that would light up any secondary... they have a good ground game that he is totally ignoring.

I am not a shannahan fan and he is not the man to turn the franchise around. You had to get a QB in place this year and they didnt make a deal to do it. Bad move that is going to hurt them for years more. McNabb set them back b/c it was another year of bad QB play and giving up a 2nd and 4th picks for a guy who was there a year... thats two young players not on this team or two picks that could have been used to move up for a QB.

Look at Detroit - they suffered for nearly a decade under Millen's disastrous decisions and now, 2 years after a winless season, they are looking pretty good.

Two years of Shanny offseasons and this team is likely worse. No improvement at all - which wouldnt be bad IF you had a young guy under center learning the pro game.

[#98QBKiller]

But we don't know yet if they are collectively bad.

Obviously neither Shanahan was sold on the QB's in the previous draft or else we could have drafted one.

We have to assume they have a long term plan in place and they are working through it. We cannot start judging this Shanahan era of the 'Skins only 22 games in. They still have another 3 1/2 seasons to go so let's not call any decisions bad as a collective yet.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this. His decisions at the QB position have backed him into a corner where the team is pretty desperate to hit on a QB this offseason. If they don't hit on a QB or if Shanahan wants to bring in a vet at the position and that doesn't work out, I'm not sure if he'll last through is contract. Whether that's a good thing or bad thing, I can't say.

[MattFancy]

I agree with everying you said Brotherz. Good post!

[wrecker]

I didn't say or imply that they only ran the ball in the 1st half, i'm saying that they ran it most of the 1st half. They had success with it and stuck with the game plan. Unfortunately they didn't result in TDs. In the 3rd quarter Carolina scored 2 tds, so obviously you would need to adjust the game plan to throwing the ball more, which they did and it resulted in a TD which kept them in the game.

Its not about fooling someone. Cook didn't pick up the blitzing LB up the middle, which resulted in the sack. Otherwise we're ranked #9 in successful 4th down conversions @ 60%. So he's been doing something right.

Well if we would have been more "balanced" in the first half and actually tried to score a TD or two we may not have had to be down by two scores in the second half.

More times than not Kyle totally gives up on the run if we don't have success the first several carries.

More times than not he put the game in Grossman's hands way too much.

More times than not he trys to outsmart the opponent in the redzone instead of calling higher percentage plays and plays we are good at.

More times than not it seems he is going by a scripted gameplan. We will run some plays that are very successful and then you will never see it called again because it is not in the script.

It always seems the opponent is better prepared for the first quarter. How many points have we scored in the first quarter this year and how many times have we scored first?

[Mahons21]

It's somewhat nauseating.

You haven't heard? No QB = No plan.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

People talk about the McNabb trade like we gave up the farm. It wasn't 2 first rounders, it was a second and a 6th. Jason Campbell didn't exactly light it up for Oakland. The problem is that we are razor thin on the depth chart. 2 more drafts like 2011 and our pantry is suddenly full again. As far as I'm concerned this is another ******* that's digging for an

The picks are secondary in the McNabb deal - although they certainly don't help.

The fact that he seemed to think that McNabb was the QB to lead this team for 3 or 4 years was the problem. It showed horrible judgment up front and created a massive opportunity cost.

---------- Post added October-26th-2011 at 10:12 AM ----------

But we don't know yet if they are collectively bad.

It is year 2 of the Shanahan regime and there is not a legit NFL starting QB on the roster. That's a problem. A major problem. A tenure-defining problem.

[1198skinsfuture]

Why do these articles, it doesn't matter the source, always seem to be fishing for a dan snyder getting impatient angle on our situation? every damn week...makes it tough to read sports articles and listen to sports talk every damn week someone else is fishing...Ive never heard of the 2 yr crap...in fact shanahan said he told snyder if he wasnt in it for at least 5 yrs "do not hire me"...so anything else printed or said about that is fishing

[Chase M]

Problem with us Skins fans is we want everything now! We have no patience. If we actually stick with someone instead of changeing our personal every 2-3 years then maybe we can actually develop something. His contract is 5 years so give the man 5 years. Just sit back and remember these times because when we start winning, oooooh boy it will be just that much sweeter. HTTR!

[Forever21]

The picks are secondary in the McNabb deal - although they certainly don't help.

The fact that he seemed to think that McNabb was the QB to lead this team for 3 or 4 years was the problem. It showed horrible judgment up front and created a massive opportunity cost.

---------- Post added October-26th-2011 at 10:12 AM ----------

It is year 2 of the Shanahan regime and there is not a legit NFL starting QB on the roster. That's a problem. A major problem. A tenure-defining problem.

But is that their fault? What should they have done to get one? It's not like legit (let alone elite) starting QB's are just sitting around waiting to be signed. They have done the best they could with what was available. That is a tenure-defining decision.