Teller Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 I think it's funny that the government isn't cool with guns in a church, but has never uttered a peep about the consumption of human flesh and blood every week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACW Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 I'm not in favor of showing up armed to church but why does the government have to make this decision as opposed to the churches themselves? If a church congregation is ok with it then I see no reason why a legally owned firearm can't be brought in. Bingo:yes:Hmmm.... unless you worship a God of War, I wouldn't think guns belong in a church, but then I'm atheist so...ok?Forget guns: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ardowling Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 No problem with carrying in church, hell I like to have the ability to carry almost anywhere. There have been a few high profile church shootings in recent years (http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2008/aug/21/man-indicted-in-church-shootings/) that may have been prevented by someone who is licensed to carry. Most of you probably have been in contact with someone who was legally carrying a weapon and you never knew it, and that's how it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 No, it's pretty accurate. I also support hunting, target shooting, etc. And I think you can defend yourself against home invaders, without having to prove that your life was directly threatened at the exact moment the gun was discharged. (As I recall, I had a problem with running out of your home to shoot a burglar in the back who was running away, but that is a different dicussion).Then I think we are closer in our views than you might think. Agreed we aren't that far off. And I still don't see how the particular law we are discussing in this thread is a "freedom of worship" issue. Right to bear arms issue, sure, maybe so. Worship? :whoknows:It's not and trying to use that is absurd. On that we agree. I don't see why the government needs to determine this however as it just doesn't seem to matter. At least it doesn't to me. Concealed carry permit holders aren't prone to violence so if there is one in church with him I frankly don't care. Except, as I was noting before, today's society is actually quite safe by historical standards, and is getting safer every year. But we all feel real scared. Thanks Nancy Grace. Fear is the new sex. Only it sells better than sex and when you're motivated by it you don't get a dirty look from your wife. A sexy supermodel may be effective at selling just about anything but the suggestion of trouble causes hardware stores to sell out of seemingly everything in a matter of hours. I wonder how many people have bought the $139 seed pouch "enough to plant 1-acre victory garden." 1 inch of snow expected? STORMWATCH 2011 will give you the latest information to keep your family safe. Collectively as a nation we've lost the ability to respond to positive arguments and respond much more strongly to fear campaign. It's not enough that your sides ideas be better, the other guys must be Hitler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 funny having the fear argument coming from the anti-gun folks, I must say. Don't fear criminals with guns, but do fear law-abiding citizens with guns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Concealed carry permit holders aren't prone to violence so if there is one in church with him I frankly don't care. Maybe that is because they traditionally have been kind of hard to get. Your average corner yabbo with a bad temper or terrible judgment didn't tend to have one. :whoknows: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Maybe that is because they traditionally have been kind of hard to get. Your average corner yabbo with a bad temper or terrible judgment didn't tend to have one. :whoknows: Really? From what I've seen they are fairly easy to get so long as you don't have a criminal record. You're a bit older than me though (no insult intended) and perhaps they were a great deal harder to acquire before I even knew what they were. I think I remember them requiring finger prints and firearm registration too... two bits of information criminals would loathe to provide law enforcement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Really? From what I've seen they are fairly easy to get so long as you don't have a criminal record. You're a bit older than me though (no insult intended) and perhaps they were a great deal harder to acquire before I even knew what they were. I think I remember them requiring finger prints and firearm registration too... two bits of information criminals would loathe to provide law enforcement. Two things I would loathe to provide the government, too. And I haven't so much as a speeding ticket to my name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Really? From what I've seen they are fairly easy to get so long as you don't have a criminal record. You're a bit older than me though (no insult intended) and perhaps they were a great deal harder to acquire before I even knew what they were. I think I remember them requiring finger prints and firearm registration too... two bits of information criminals would loathe to provide law enforcement. They used to be very hard to acquire in most places (However, there was one sheriff somewhere who made a point of issuing them to anyone who asked, no matter where they were from, which I really pissed a lot of people off). Things have changed a lot in the past few years on the gun control front. It will be interesting to see how the conceal carry trend plays out. I suspect that the actual impact on preventing crime will be negligible, and the increase in accidental gun injuries and hotheaded gun incidences will be significant, but I admit that I am biased. I see no need for handguns at all, except for LEOs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazel-Ra Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Thank you, Thank you.Now I live in a really redneck area, so while it wouldn't be out of place to see a shotgun/hunting rifle in the back of a pick-up in the parking lot when deer season rolls around, I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with somebody bringing a handgun INTO church. Especially as there are almost always lots of children in any given church. I live in the Treasure Valley (Boise and 5-6 surrounding cities) where the entire area population is well short of a million and "rural" is a 15 minute drive away so it sounds like we live in similar areas. That's probably why I agree with your post lock, stock, and barrel...so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 I really don't care personally, but seems like a good idea for the safety of the participants to keep a prohibition. For every responsible citizen, there are many more idiots like Plaxico. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 I really don't care personally, but seems like a good idea for the safety of the participants to keep a prohibition.For every responsible citizen, there are many more idiots like Plaxico. Plaxico has an illegally concealed weapon. Obviously laws don't stop idiots like Plaxico from doing what they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 My country is ****ing crazy. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Plaxico has an illegally concealed weapon. Obviously laws don't stop idiots like Plaxico from doing what they did. As far as I know Plaxico didn't have felonies prior to that which would have stopped him from getting a concealed permit in most places. So he just as easily could have been an idiot who was legally allowed to carry the gun he had and through careless stupidity accidentally fired into a crowded area; he was just too stupid and lazy to get one. One thing I would like to see is the requiring of real safety training (aka not sitting down in a class for a few hours, watching a video and passing a written test) for a concealed permit as well as a requirement of x number of hours in a range under supervision. If you want to carry a concealed weapon I think you should be able to demonstrate that you have a serious understanding of gun safety as well as plenty of experience handling and shooting a gun. As it is now, in many states (VA for example) pretty much any nimrod who is over 21, has no felonies on record and has the money to buy a gun can get a concealed weapons permit. Even if they've never held a gun in their lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Brave Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 My pastor is armed every Sunday. He's a part time sworn police chaplain. We have two other police officers carrying as well. I do feel safer knowing that if something serious goes down, we have people in place who can handle the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportjunkie07 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 there a few that i know of in the congregation at my church that carry concealed handguns.. i dont have a problem with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 My pastor is armed every Sunday. He's a part time sworn police chaplain. We have two other police officers carrying as well. I do feel safer knowing that if something serious goes down, we have people in place who can handle the situation. Unless they become the situation. To feel better would indicate there was a prior fear. Was there something to be afraid of, or just the idea of a random boogeyman has you arming the church? ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Unless they become the situation. How likely is that? I always bring a bomb on a plane in my carry on, as the probability of there being two bombs on the plane is extremely unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 How likely is that?I always bring a bomb on a plane in my carry on, as the probability of there being two bombs on the plane is extremely unlikely. Well, it's a lot less likely if they don't have the gun in church. I'm just saying,, if the lady feels safe because of the armed men, there must have been a reason to feel unsafe in the first place. And if that is the case,, was there a specific threat, or just the one that scares us from the TV? ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 As far as I know Plaxico didn't have felonies prior to that which would have stopped him from getting a concealed permit in most places. So he just as easily could have been an idiot who was legally allowed to carry the gun he had and through careless stupidity accidentally fired into a crowded area; he was just too stupid and lazy to get one. One thing I would like to see is the requiring of real safety training (aka not sitting down in a class for a few hours, watching a video and passing a written test) for a concealed permit as well as a requirement of x number of hours in a range under supervision. If you want to carry a concealed weapon I think you should be able to demonstrate that you have a serious understanding of gun safety as well as plenty of experience handling and shooting a gun. As it is now, in many states (VA for example) pretty much any nimrod who is over 21, has no felonies on record and has the money to buy a gun can get a concealed weapons permit. Even if they've never held a gun in their lives. The incident happened in a Manhattan bar while Plax was getting bottle service with his friends (read: drinking). There doesn't appear to be a permit that would have allowed him to have a gun legally in that circumstance, regardless of his clean record. Even states with the least strict gun laws don't tend to allow a loaded hand gun, in a bar, while drinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmonkforHOF Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Only in America is this an issue. Next time you or someone you know leaves the US on vacation, business etc, make sure to ask a local if it is alright to bring a gun into a place of worship. The reaction on their face alone should tell you everything you need to know about this issue. and why stop at handguns? if I have a license to carry a .50 caliber sniper rifle, an AK-47 assault rifle, an M16 and a few frag grenades, then gosh darn it, I should be able to bring those to church as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Brave Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Unless they become the situation.To feel better would indicate there was a prior fear. Was there something to be afraid of, or just the idea of a random boogeyman has you arming the church? ~Bang Of the 3 or 4 churches I've attended, I've witnessed several incidences of mentally unstable and violent individuals attempt to disrupt our services. Some of them had to be restrained. The fact that I've spent the last 20 years of my life working in the courts and law enforcement doesn't help with my general distrust of people either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Of the 3 or 4 churches I've attended, I've witnessed several incidences of mentally unstable and violent individuals attempt to disrupt our services. Some of them had to be restrained. The fact that I've spent the last 20 years of my life working in the courts and law enforcement doesn't help with my general distrust of people either. I don't trust people either. But I'm rarely afraid for my life when i go in public. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Brave Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 I don't trust people either.But I'm rarely afraid for my life when i go in public. ~Bang You haven't had the same life experiences as I have, so I understand why you would feel that way. I don't live in fear, but I probably do take extra precautions that others wouldn't. When you're in close contact with criminals on a daily basis it causes you be more vigilant in assessing your surroundings no matter where you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 why is it assumed that if one carries a gun that they are "afraid"? The Boy Scouts say it best..."Be Prepared" You never know what may happen unexpectedly at any location with any people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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