China Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Gun rights group argues for right to bring guns to worship Should you be allowed to carry a gun to church? What about the person sitting next to you? The question before a three-judge panel for the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Atlanta Thursday is whether Georgia’s prohibition on firearms in places of worship conflicts with the promise of religious freedom in the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. GeorgiaCarry.org, which brought the initial lawsuit, believes religious institutions, not Georgia law, should dictate if firearms are allowed inside, and they point to accounts of shootings in churches as examples of why guns are needed even while worshiping. But lawyers for the state say the ban makes it possible for “worshipers to focus on spiritual activities” instead of “protective vigilance.” GeorgiaCarry.org’s argument about the First Amendment is a novel approach to challenging a gun law. Only Georgia, Mississippi, Arkansas and North Dakota specifically prohibit firearms in churches, synagogues and mosques, according to court filings. “It’s about whether or not the government should be making laws dealing with churches,” said Kelley Kinnett, a regular church goer and president of GeorgiaCarry.org, a gun rights group. “This is more of a First Amendment case than a Second Amendment case.” Last month, a former deacon at a Florida church shot and wounded the pastor and an associate pastor before parishioners tackled him. Last year two teenage boys were wounded when three gunmen stormed a California church. And in 2008 a gunman killed two and wounded six in a Tennessee church because he believed liberals, like the church’s members, were destroying the country. Opponents of the ban also point out that large sums of cash are handled by church workers or volunteers who are sometimes there alone. “Why would you not want to take a gun?” asked Jerry Henry, who is also with GeorgiaCarry.org. Click on the link for the full article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USS Redskins Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Would've loved a gun in chruch when I was a kid... we could've thrown the communion in the air and try to shoot holes in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellis Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Nothing says "I love Jesus." quite like a holstered pistol while flippin through the Hymnal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 I'm not in favor of showing up armed to church but why does the government have to make this decision as opposed to the churches themselves? If a church congregation is ok with it then I see no reason why a legally owned firearm can't be brought in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 I'm not in favor of showing up armed to church but why does the government have to make this decision as opposed to the churches themselves? If a church congregation is ok with it then I see no reason why a legally owned firearm can't be brought in. Bingo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 The question before a three-judge panel for the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Atlanta Thursday is whether Georgia’s prohibition on firearms in places of worship conflicts with the promise of religious freedom in the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. From a narrow legal point of view, this argument looks like a loser. Unless you are attending "The Church of Lord Jesus the Gunfighter" (and having firearms in church is one of your religious beliefs) it seems doubtful that this case has anything to do with religious freedom or the First Amendment at all. It has long been understood that governments may make rules about what is allowed in or near churches (just like schools), as long as the restrictions are not designed to quash the religious beliefs of the community or promote one religion over another. :whoknows: You may think this law is a bad idea in general, and they may even have a strong argument under the Second Amendment alone as it has been interpreted in recent years, but as a First Amendment/Freedom of Worship case, this looks really weak to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazel-Ra Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Hmmm.... unless you worship a God of War, I wouldn't think guns belong in a church, but then I'm atheist so...ok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofSparta Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Hmmm.... unless you worship a God of War... You rang? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No_Pressure Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 This reminds me of Geroge Carlin's comedy routine from years ago where he said he couldn't wait until inevitably people move on from school and work shootings, and begin to commit church shootings. He said that the news would refer to the shooter as a disgruntled worshipper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RVAbrendan Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Not sure if serious... Just wondering why the heck anybody would need to carry a firearm to church?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazel-Ra Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 You rang? (rimshot) Thank ya thank ya, he's here all week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sideshow24 Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Not sure if serious...Just wondering why the heck anybody would need to carry a firearm to church?? It is a sad state of affairs today, but there are some who might feel that they aren't safe ANYWHERE and need armed protection. I'm not arguing for or against, I'm just pointing out the real dangers people face no matter where they are. http://articles.cnn.com/2007-12-10/us/colorado.shootings_1_gunman-security-guard-casings?_s=PM:US Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Not sure if serious...Just wondering why the heck anybody would need to carry a firearm to church?? http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/14808321/detail.html http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/local/polk/lakeland-church-shooting-091911 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knoxville_Unitarian_Universalist_church_shooting http://articles.cnn.com/2007-05-20/us/police.shot_1_gunman-police-officer-moscow?_s=PM:US etc, etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofSparta Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 (rimshot) Thank ya thank ya, he's here all week. Thank you, Thank you. Now I live in a really redneck area, so while it wouldn't be out of place to see a shotgun/hunting rifle in the back of a pick-up in the parking lot when deer season rolls around, I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with somebody bringing a handgun INTO church. Especially as there are almost always lots of children in any given church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Violent crime may be way down, but the excessive and irrational fear of imminent violent crime never goes down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Violent crime may be way down, but the excessive and irrational fear of imminent violent crime never goes down. being prepared does not equate fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 being prepared does not equate fear. Sorry, I don't know 'bout the mean streets of Fairfax, but to me, feeling the need to pack heat to protect yourself while sitting in a church pew does equal fear. "But, but.... what if the zombies attack!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofSparta Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Sorry, I don't know 'bout the mean streets of Fairfax, but to me, feeling the need to pack heat to protect yourself while sitting in a church pew does equal fear. "But, but.... what if the zombies attack!" Well that's why I always strap my tire iron to my leg before going into church. It never needs reloading, blunt force trauma can crush a zombie's head, and I don't need no stinkin' permit for it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Sorry, I don't know 'bout the mean streets of Fairfax, but to me, feeling the need to pack heat to protect yourself while sitting in a church pew does equal fear. Why point out the mean streets of Fairfax when you'd be just as likely to support severe gun restrictions in bad neighborhoods? Your fear of legally owned guns is no more rational then the people that feel the need to include a gun belt as part of their Sunday attire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Why point out the mean streets of Fairfax when you'd be just as likely to support severe gun restrictions in bad neighborhoods? Your fear of legally owned guns is no more rational then the people that feel the need to include a gun belt as part of their Sunday attire. :secret: because PokerPacker is from Fairfax, and I was making a joke. and for whatever it is worth, I support home ownership of guns, just not all guns, and not to the extent that the gun lobby does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 :secret: because PokerPacker is from Fairfax, and I was making a joke.and for whatever it is worth, I support home ownership of guns, just not all guns, and not to the extent that the gun lobby does. I know it was a joke, my issue is only that it's meaningless when the context wouldn't change anything. No big deal. I think I remember you posting that you were ok with shotgun or non-assault style rifle in your home to only be used if your life is directly threatened at the time the firearm is discharged. That might be way off and I apologize if it is. My main problem with gun laws isn't the type of gun. If we decided it would be only shotguns and rifles I'm not sure I'd care all that much to be honest. Where I differ greatly is where you can carry and I support castle laws and the more extreme "no duty to retreat" or "stand your ground" laws. Hands guns are nifty for concealed carry but that works both ways and criminals take greater advantage of that quality than law abiding citizens, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kubstix Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 It is a sad state of affairs today, but there are some who might feel that they aren't safe ANYWHERE and need armed protection. I'm not arguing for or against, I'm just pointing out the real dangers people face no matter where they are. http://articles.cnn.com/2007-12-10/us/colorado.shootings_1_gunman-security-guard-casings?_s=PM:US Word, but at the same time you also have to look at the other side. You would think kids at VT were just going to school for another day, partying at night. What if one kid had a gun, brought it out and just popped him when the kid pulled his gun out. Every headline would be, "Hero saves lives". In todays world the truth of the matter is, you aren't really safe. Some feel safe enough to go to church (I would as well), but you just never know what some wacko is going to do in public. And to be honest, in todays society, I wouldn't be all that shocked to hear about some wacko going nuts in a church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 I know it was a joke, my issue is only that it's meaningless when the context wouldn't change anything. No big deal. I think I remember you posting that you were ok with shotgun or non-assault style rifle in your home to only be used if your life is directly threatened at the time the firearm is discharged. That might be way off and I apologize if it is. No, it's pretty accurate. I also support hunting, target shooting, etc. And I think you can defend yourself against home invaders, without having to prove that your life was directly threatened at the exact moment the gun was discharged. (As I recall, I had a problem with running out of your home to shoot a burglar in the back who was running away, but that is a different dicussion). My main problem with gun laws isn't the type of gun. If we decided it would be only shotguns and rifles I'm not sure I'd care all that much to be honest. Where I differ greatly is where you can carry and I support castle laws and the more extreme "no duty to retreat" or "stand your ground" laws. Hands guns are nifty for concealed carry but that works both ways and criminals take greater advantage of that quality than law abiding citizens, Then I think we are closer in our views than you might think. And I still don't see how the particular law we are discussing in this thread is a "freedom of worship" issue. Right to bear arms issue, sure, maybe so. Worship? :whoknows: ---------- Post added October-6th-2011 at 04:36 PM ---------- Word, but at the same time you also have to look at the other side. You would think kids at VT were just going to school for another day, partying at night. What if one kid had a gun, brought it out and just popped him when the kid pulled his gun out. Every headline would be, "Hero saves lives". In todays world the truth of the matter is, you aren't really safe. Some feel safe enough to go to church (I would as well), but you just never know what some wacko is going to do in public. And to be honest, in todays society, I wouldn't be all that shocked to hear about some wacko going nuts in a church. Except, as I was noting before, today's society is actually quite safe by historical standards, and is getting safer every year. But we all feel real scared. Thanks Nancy Grace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 The Christians that want guns in church need to go out and get the NEW Testiment. Turn the other cheek, not chamber another hollowpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 I'm not scurred, but I do like to be prepared. That's why I'm learning Krav Maga and I carry a knife. no point in letting every little thing that can happen worry you and turn you into a hermit, but at the same time, it doesn't hurt to be prepared for what you can prepare for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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