CNN - Panel tallies massive waste and fraud in wartime U.S. contracts

[Predicto]

My mom used to work for Raytheon. The stuff she told me about how multi-billion dollar contracts were awarded would make your hair curl.

[Renegade7]

If you think that's bad, look into medicare/medicaid fraud. As much as people talk about slashing budgets, its rare to hear any politician talk about cutting back on fraud or corruption. $60 billion is not chump change, even with a $1.4 trillion deficit. It adds up, bro...

[Destino]

Virginia has the same amount of DOD spending as California... and California has about 5 times the population

Why exactly would population matter in this context? There is a set number of contracts not a per capita spending plan. Plus isn't orange county CA the land of defense contractors? Remember the pentagon and major US DoD buildings themselves are in northern VA so it would make perfect sense to are money spent around the heart of the US military.

Also help me here I thought privatization was what republicans wanted? Why are we suddenly ****ing about contractor spending? I thought the goal of any business man was to make as much as possible. The profit incentive is creates efficiency right?

[Slateman]

Really? We needed a panel for this? I didn't. Look no further than the results. The Marine Corps has wasated BILLIONS on a half air plane, half helicopter that can't handle getting shot at by the most common firearm in the world. Billions more on trying to turn a tank into a boat and wondering why it doesn't work.

You want your debt eliminated? Stop going to war. Stop paying huge amounts of money to contractors when you do.

[skinfan2k]

you can cut the DOD budget by 20% and it won't make a difference at all to the mission news.

[twa]

you can cut the DOD budget by 20% and it won't make a difference at all to the mission news.

Carefull or someone might mistake you for Rumsfelt

[pointyfootball]

Interesting read. I've not been able to find where they identify where the $30-60B was actually wasted/abused. This issue is not as cut-n-dried as: "Dirty, no-good, greedy Defense contractors are stealing taxpayer money!" No doubt there definitely has been people/contractors who have, but I imagine that most of the "lost" money is due to the the federal government feeling they had to rebuild the two countries quickly. This led to money ill-advisedly probably being thrown at projects hoping to get them started.

IOne sentence that stood out to me: "The number of Defense acquisition professionals declined by 10 percent during a decade that saw contractural obligations triple." Do more policing with less police doesn't work, IMO.

Edit: Chapter 3 identifies wasted/abused contracts.

[Prosperity]

Why exactly would population matter in this context? There is a set number of contracts not a per capita spending plan. Plus isn't orange county CA the land of defense contractors? Remember the pentagon and major US DoD buildings themselves are in northern VA so it would make perfect sense to are money spent around the heart of the US military.

Also help me here I thought privatization was what republicans wanted? Why are we suddenly ****ing about contractor spending? I thought the goal of any business man was to make as much as possible. The profit incentive is creates efficiency right?

Just thought it was interesting, also pointing out that that novas ( and by extension va) economy isn't doing well for the usual reasons ppl tell me... It just happens to be close to the honey pot. I'm not saying there would necessarily be less waste elsewhere

[Rocky21]

A bunch of folks screaming "Less Government" on one hand are stuffing government money in their pocket with the other hand.

[twa]

A bunch of folks screaming "Less Government" on one hand are stuffing government money in their pocket with the other hand.

So give them what they ask for and ya fix both issues

There are enormous sums being played with,simply reduce funds and waste/fraud is reduced.

If after reduction clear need is seen then additional funds can be approved

[Corcaigh]

Interesting read. I've not been able to find where they identify where the $30-60B was actually wasted/abused. This issue is not as cut-n-dried as: "Dirty, no-good, greedy Defense contractors are stealing taxpayer money!" No doubt there definitely has been people/contractors who have, but I imagine that most of the "lost" money is due to the the federal government feeling they had to rebuild the two countries quickly. This led to money ill-advisedly probably being thrown at projects hoping to get them started.

There's certainly some of this. In providing services rapidly to people who are in harms way in a highly unstable environment, cost efficiency will be traded off with the military, security and political goals.

[Destino]

So give them what they ask for and ya fix both issues

There are enormous sums being played with,simply reduce funds and waste/fraud is reduced.

If after reduction clear need is seen then additional funds can be approved

People want to privatize government functions. That creates a market which predictably seeks to protect itself and grow. They pressure the government to expand contracts. Over time they figure out ways to get more money for less work which the client (all of us) view correctly as waste.

The profit incentive is predictable. If you want to reduce waste as it regards government contracts you'll have to rewrite the rule book as it applies to this area of the government. Problem is money is speech and corporations are legal persons... so they are going to make sure that anything you have to say is countered by their lobbying efforts and donations.

I know which horse I'd bet on to win.

[Bang]

So give them what they ask for and ya fix both issues

There are enormous sums being played with,simply reduce funds and waste/fraud is reduced.

If after reduction clear need is seen then additional funds can be approved

No it isn't.

if you reduce funds, they won't just say,

"Dang! The gravy train's over boys! They's onto us! We'd best play fair now!"

Reduce funds, they increase price, reduce output, lay people off and continue to pad their pockets all the while.

When do extortionists ever quit?

the answer is much simpler.

Cut funds, to be sure. And when the investigation shows that fraud or profiteering has occured haul these ****s up in front of courts on charges that can put them in prison for the rest of their natural lives.

Punish these people SEVERELY. Make some serious examples out of them.

Destroy them. Treat them like the enemy they are.

~Bang

[@DCGoldPants]

No it isn't.

if you reduce funds, they won't just say,

"Dang! The gravy train's over boys! They's onto us! We'd best play fair now!"

Reduce funds, they increase price, reduce output, lay people off and continue to pad their pockets all the while.

When do extortionists ever quit?

the answer is much simpler.

Cut funds, to be sure. And when the investigation shows that fraud or profiteering has occured haul these ****s up in front of courts on charges that can put them in prison for the rest of their natural lives.

Punish these people SEVERELY. Make some serious examples out of them.

Destroy them. Treat them like the enemy they are.

~Bang

Exactly. Basically show them for the scam artists they are. Looking to make money off of the lives of American lives in battle.

I agree 100% with Bang. Go for serious prison terms for those who set it up. The trials should be very public and the companies should be shut down after all their assets are sold and all money going back to the Gov't they robbed.

[wantarace17]

Here is the dirty little secret

Most defense contractors run Overhead, G+A and fringe rates at or near 100 percent

Lets say a guy makes 100,000 per year, salary. That is an hourly rate of 48 dollars an hour.

A contractor, when they add in their OH costs, fringe costs, G&A costs, state department uplifts (which you can find here) http://aoprals.state.gov/Web920/location.asp?menu_id=95, and fee (which ranges from 7-10%) are charging the government 125 dollars per hour for that person

And the government APPROVES this. There are several government audit arms (DCAA, DCMA) whose sole responsibility is to sit at the contractor's office and audit their rates

Yes, its an incredible waste. Most of this money goes into the pockets of the people living in Great Falls VA. The amount of money a "VP" makes who works for a CSC, Northrup Graummun, LockHeed Martin, Dyncorp, etc, is staggering

you hit the nail directly on the head SHF. I see this happen all the time as an IT Recruiter. Particularly guilty with the small to mid size businesses who really overbill the government.

[Thiebear]

There is so much waste in the government i'm shocked people are shocked...

They spend extra money so the next fiscal year they can get more...in every unit in every office in every facet.

Again, it always comes down to the details.

Accountability would be simply amazing..

[twa]

Bang I certainly approve of charging them and making examples of them IF they are breaking the law

If they ain't ya need to make examples of those enabling the waste

[Jumbo]

There are enormous sums being played with,simply reduce funds and waste/fraud is reduced.

If after reduction clear need is seen then additional funds can be approved

Call me a hopeless romantic, but I have leaned more to the theory that when we reduce the social and military budgets, the percentage of fraud and graft will remain relatively unchanged and actual needed services will be what withers. Reduction of budget isn't the effective path to reduced fraud---competent and motivated policing and prosecution is.

[Corcaigh]

you hit the nail directly on the head SHF. I see this happen all the time as an IT Recruiter. Particularly guilty with the small to mid size businesses who really overbill the government.

OK cost accounting gurus of the board, what's a 'reasonable' number for indirect costs to add on top of an employee hourly salary? Fringe costs for contractors are typically lower than direct government employees (because their benefits are inferior). A significant part of the G&A cost is a function of the government contracting costs. If the contractor is only getting reimbursed for audited allowable costs, plus a pretty small profit margin, what's the issue?

[twa]

Call me a hopeless romantic, but I have leaned more to the theory that when we reduce the social and military budgets, the percentage of fraud and graft will remain relatively unchanged and actual needed services will be what withers. Reduction of budget isn't the effective path to reduced fraud---competent and motivated policing and prosecution is.

Fraud certainly differs from waste, but it should be more evident when funds are reduced

I have learned tolerance for either lessens as real need goes unmet

waste and graft are more open to interpretation....fraud is not.

[Jumbo]

Fraud certainly differs from waste, but it should be more evident when funds are reduced

I have learned tolerance for either lessens as real need goes unmet

waste and graft are more open to interpretation....fraud is not.

I know and agree to a certain (more minimal) degree, but still stand by what I said, your qualifications aside, especially having years of first hand experience in the matter, military and social services wise.

[twa]

I agree with your concerns,but aren't the contracts in question outside the usual military spending?(and include State dept and USAID spending)....a breakdown would offer some clarity,as would less agencies spending funds seperately

certainly simply cutting military spending has been done poorly in the past,with the troops (and support)being shorted

[Jumbo]

I agree with your concerns,but aren't the contracts in question outside the usual military spending?(and include State dept and USAID spending)....a breakdown would offer some clarity,as would less agencies spending funds seperately

certainly simply cutting military spending has been done poorly in the past,with the troops (and support)being shorted

I think that's all fair and I agree about the breakdowns and use of caution. And that should apply to cuts in social services too. I see (and work with the results of) too much of that these days. And it isn't pretty, right/left/personal philosophies aside. The military stuff involved my first career and I can't speak competently on the differences and detail of varying procurement procedures though I can on waste and fraud I was familiar with (approx. 15 years dated).