Why John Beck is Likely to Win the Job

[Oldfan]

...Beck on the other hand is still somewhat of a question mark. He seems smart. Moves well. Has a relatively strong arm with some good zip. But still looks a little off at times on the field. He doesn't seem to have a natural touch as a quarterback. His deep ball leaves something to desire.

This is a legit concern, IMO. We don't have enough good deep throws to feel confident, but the rest of Beck's game gives an OC plenty to work with.

---------- Post added September-2nd-2011 at 12:48 PM ----------

I understand that.

I disagree that mobility trumps all else.

If this were the case, Vince Young would have been a Redskin.

I didn't say that mobility trumps all else.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I think that throw was unforgivable for a QB. Every throw back across your body towards the middle of the field is dangerous.

I guess we just disagree. You'd have to then say that every intentional throwaway by a QB that doesn't land safely out of bounds is "dangerous" and that's simply not true. There are ways to ground the ball and abort a play without being ridiculous about it. Throwing the ball at players' feet is used all the time by QBs.

[Oldfan]

Beck's accuracy has to be a concern. His ball placement on short and intermediate throws leaves a lot to be desired and he still struggles with the deep pass.

Rex is a lot more accurate short to intermediate and he doesn't struggle with deep passes. .

From my POV: Neither has shown much on the deep passes. Beck is much better on the short to intermediate. Rex's accuracy seems to be limited to the middle of the field.

[SlkyCaramel]

Let's look at this game by game......

Rex Grossman vs. Ravens

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6udgJykB3jw&feature=related

John Beck vs. Ravens

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCbsM5PW970

[Mahons21]

I guess we just disagree. You'd have to then say that every intentional throwaway by a QB that doesn't land safely out of bounds is "dangerous" and that's simply not true. There are ways to ground the ball and abort a play without being ridiculous about it. Throwing the ball at players' feet is used all the time by QBs.

It's just a poorly thrown ball not a ball being grounded, and there's no need for him to ground it, he could have thrown it out of bounds I just watched the play 5 times. It was a bad decision, I don't see how anyone can defend it. Want to throw the ball away? Throw it out of bounds the direction your running, you're already outside the tackle box you won't get intentional grounding so long as you throw it past the LOS. He thought he had MS open but he didn't and it was a poor pass.

[polywog999]

another guy who doesnt understand my user name and thinks i was ever a brandon lloyd fan.

look at my join date, we already knew brandon lloyd was terrible by the time i signed up lol.

No, I get it! Just giving you a hard time. He is doing pretty good now....

2010 -

.......................REC...YDS TD

Regular Season....77 1448 11

Career...............241 3818 26

[MartinC]

I think that throw was unforgivable for a QB. Every throw back across your body towards the middle of the field is dangerous.

It would have been if had been thrown at a catchable height, as it was he threw it into the ground so it was fine. The throw and decision I had a real problem with was the decision to throw late to the flat - he got away with it but a better corner takes that back for a pick six. The play started badly as he looked at the flat first alerting the corner sat in short zone to route match - this despite having no pressure. Then he looked middle and came back again to the flat and threw without first locating the corner who was breaking on the ball.

Clearly you just can't throw late but I also don't know why he looked flat first rather than middle and then coming back to the flat as a second read if he did not like what he saw down field. It's plays like that he needs to eliminate if he is going to be a good NFL starting QB.

[Oldfan]

It's just a poorly thrown ball not a ball being grounded...

You entered John Beck's head and learned that he didn't just look for Sellers, realize he wasn't open, and decide to ground it in Sellers' direction? In that case, it was a bad throw not a bad decision. Isn't that correct?

And if he was grounding it, you're going to criticize it as a bad decision on style points because he should have thrown it out of bounds?

[polywog999]

You entered John Beck's head and learned that he didn't just look for Sellers, realize he wasn't open, and decide to ground it in Sellers' direction? In that case, it was a bad throw not a bad decision. Isn't that correct?

And if he was grounding it, you're going to criticize it as a bad decision on style points because he should have thrown it out of bounds?

Thiesman was going on and on about that, but in truth, Beck was throwing it away.

[greenspandan]

i don't get the "beck's not ready yet" argument. the guy has been holding a clipboard in this league for years. there's only one way to get him any more ready, and that's to play him.

[Mahons21]

You entered John Beck's head and learned that he didn't just look for Sellers, realize he wasn't open, and decide to ground it in Sellers' direction? In that case, it was a bad throw not a bad decision. Isn't that correct?

And if he was grounding it, you're going to criticize it as a bad decision on style points because he should have thrown it out of bounds?

Clearly we disagree on this matter, that ball was nearly tipped by bowers, if he tips it the right way and that ball goes sky high you and I both know there's a 50/50 chance it's a pick. It's a poor decision OF, you throw that ball out of bounds, it wasn't like a grounded screen either, this pass traveled some distance in the air.

That ball is at least 2 feet in the air still as it's passing Bowers all the way from his left to his right.

[ouvan59]

You listened to Theisman whose brain isn't always in gear before he speaks.

He intentionally grounded the ball on the ball thrown across his body. As for being late to the flat, the ball was there, and would have been complete, but the defender dove and made an outstanding play.

I may be willing to concede that he was trying to ground the ball to Sellers but the ball in the flat was not only late it was thrown way too far inside. He had a couple of those including a ball that was completed to Paul. It wasn't a very good night for him but it's also not the end of the world. Even good QBs have nights like that. It happens. I also think it was exacerbated by receivers not running crisp routes and sometimes the wrong route. I can think of at least 4 occasions where it looked like Beck thought a receiver was running a different route than he did. It was an ugly overall.

[Mahons21]

I may be willing to concede that he was trying to ground the ball to Sellers but the ball in the flat was not only late it was thrown way too far inside. He had a couple of those including a ball that was completed to Paul. It wasn't a very good night for him but it's also not the end of the world. Even good QBs have nights like that. It happens. I also think it was exacerbated by receivers not running crisp routes and sometimes the wrong route. I can think of at least 4 occasions where it looked like Beck thought a receiver was running a different route than he did. It was an ugly overall.

To add to that, I think he had some of his most impressive plays last night. My favorite being the dart to Stallworth on 3rd and 12. Beck is being laid out on that play but he manages to throw a perfectly timed/accurate pass for a 1st down into the RZ.

I also was impressed obviously by the side step and quick pass to Paul.

Lastly there's an intermediate throw to AA on the 2nd drive, he hits him in the zone behind the LB's beneath the safeties.

[darrelgreenie]

....."I think Rex Grossman has the potential to be 5-6 year quality starter mainly because I can throw out his previous NFL performances and grade the tangibles.".........................I just don't see a huge difference in tangibles between the two. I think this is mostly a case of the devil you don't know is better than the devil you do.

Excuse the interjection but your quoted statement is true for you because,like you said, you don't see a big difference in the tangibles.

[War Paint]

i don't get the "beck's not ready yet" argument. the guy has been holding a clipboard in this league for years. there's only one way to get him any more ready, and that's to play him.

This sums it up. He has to play. It's really a no-brainer to start him. If he becomes better and better it's a win. If he gets worse and worse, we draft a QB next year. Even if he plays well, it won't hurt to draft a QB to be groomed behind him.

---------- Post added September-2nd-2011 at 02:01 PM ----------

To add to that, I think he had some of his most impressive plays last night. My favorite being the dart to Stallworth on 3rd and 12. Beck is being laid out on that play but he manages to throw a perfectly timed/accurate pass for a 1st down into the RZ.

I also was impressed obviously by the side step and quick pass to Paul.

Lastly there's an intermediate throw to AA on the 2nd drive, he hits him in the zone behind the LB's beneath the safeties.

I agree. Beck did have some awesome throws that seemed to be going ignored and overshadowed by the endgame stats.

[darrelgreenie]

I agree Beck didn't play that poorly last night, but what we saw from him are a lot of the knocks that people have had about Grossman. Specifically bad decisions/throwing off your back-foot.

I don't agree but even if people saw are 'knocks that people have about Grossman' then how does that make Grossman a better option?

[War Paint]

nevermind. Edit.

[skinfan2k]

There is a clear presence of a intermediate passing game with Rex. I have seen not of that with Beck. Its either dumpoffs or swing passes or Bombs

[darrelgreenie]

To add to that, I think he had some of his most impressive plays last night. My favorite being the dart to Stallworth on 3rd and 12. Beck is being laid out on that play but he manages to throw a perfectly timed/accurate pass for a 1st down into the RZ.

I also was impressed obviously by the side step and quick pass to Paul.

Lastly there's an intermediate throw to AA on the 2nd drive, he hits him in the zone behind the LB's beneath the safeties.

I was hoping their would be a thread that included a game cut-up so people could discuss the actual game.

But, your post seems as a good jumping off point.(if you don't mind)

I agree with your assessment of his good plays so I won't repeat them.

Also, I'm going off memory as I haven't watched game again.

The throws where I would have given a minus:

o missed deep ball to Armstrong

o late + behind on a flat/out route to Austin right sideline (IIRC on 3rd down?)

o late + behind Sellers in the left flat

o throw across the body on bootleg right

o underthrown fade route to Paul Intercepted (he was getting hit mid-throw)

My gut tells me that Beck was 'aiming' the ball trying to be too perfect.

He just needs to grip and rip it.

That's 5 minus plays out of 21(?) passes clearly wasn't Beck at his past.

But, this game doesn't change my opinion of the QB competition.

[Mahons21]

I don't agree but even if people saw are 'knocks that people have about Grossman' then how does that make Grossman a better option?

Because Rex has shown with risk comes reward.

We've seen him hit a few guys when he's pedaling off that back foot, and we've seen him squeeze the ball into windows not but 6 inches larger than a football. But we've also seen his back pedaling lead to incomplete passes, or even worse interceptions, and just as we've seen him intercepted for attempting to complete throws into coverage.

To add on to that, IMO the team see's Beck in more of a game manager role. In playing such a role Beck must be mistake free, he has shown he is.

[darrelgreenie]

Because Rex has shown with risk comes reward.

To add on to that, IMO the team see's Beck in more of a game manager role. In playing such a role Beck must be mistake free, he has shown he isn't.

But based on this preason where is the reward? Their stats are pretty much even.

Then you should say that you see Beck in a game manager role, its too much to speculate how the team sees him.

One could speculate that based on the Ravens they want to go downfield with Beck at the helm.

[Oldfan]

Because Rex has shown with risk comes reward.

To add on to that, IMO the team see's Beck in more of a game manager role. In playing such a role Beck must be mistake free, he has shown he isn't.

Mike Shanahan looking for a game manager as his QB is as likely as Lady Gaga shopping for a nice black dress to wear to dinner.

[Mahons21]

Mike Shanahan looking for a game manager as his QB is as likely as Lady Gaga shopping for a nice black dress to wear to dinner.

I admit I don't know Mike's past nearly as well you, but I got the feeling during this competition that Beck was more of a game manager. And I don't think the few shots he took down-field, many of which were essentially go deep or nothing, refutes that.

---------- Post added September-2nd-2011 at 02:50 PM ----------

But based on this preason where is the reward? Their stats are pretty much even.

I don't look at the stats, I look at specific plays. There's numerous plays that I would label "reward" in his 2-minute drill against BAL, as well as his 2-minute drill in PIT.

Then you should say that you see Beck in a game manager role, its too much to speculate how the team sees him.

One could speculate that based on the Ravens they want to go downfield with Beck at the helm.

If I see him in a game manager role, I'm essentially saying that's the way the team see's him because they are the ones calling the play. Seems like apples to apples to me in this case.

I disagree obo the Ravens game, it wasn't so much a vertical passing game ie Chargers as it was take a few shots here and there.

---------- Post added September-2nd-2011 at 02:51 PM ----------

http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/nfl/2011/09/ten-thoughts-beck-vs-grossman

[Oldfan]

I admit I don't know Mike's pass nearly as well you, but I got the feeling during this competition that Beck was more of a game manager. And I don't think the few shots he took down-field, many of which were essentially go deep or nothing, refutes that.

The difference between us here might be in our definitions of "game manager."

To me, a "game manager" QB is sought after by a conservative, defensive-minded coach (George Allen) who wants to pound the run and pass only in desperation.

You probably are thinking more of a QB like Joe Montana who, in a conventional WCO, is running a ball control offense by mixing the run with lots of short-to-intermediate range passes. I could imagine Mike running a more conventional WCO with Beck than he has in the past with say Cutler. But, I wouldn't call that a game manager.

[Mahons21]

The difference between us here might be in our definitions of "game manager."

To me, a "game manager" QB is sought after by a conservative, defensive-minded coach (George Allen) who wants to pound the run and pass only in desperation.

You probably are thinking more of a QB like Joe Montana who, in a conventional WCO, is running a ball control offense by mixing the run with lots of short-to-intermediate range passes. I could imagine Mike running a more conventional WCO with Beck than he has in the past with say Cutler. But, I wouldn't call that a game manager.

I agree with that.