Why John Beck is Likely to Win the Job

[Mahons21]

You seem to be blind to the things that can be seen, like the things Beck can do with his arm and legs while claiming to see things that the rest of us can't see, like bad decisions.

Oh come on now, OF, Beck made a few poor decisions last night. I can think of two balls that easily could have been picked, one when he threw back across his body rolling the opposite way, a cardinal no-no for QB's, and I believe the other he was late on his throw to the flat, and the defender was just sitting on the route.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

...and of course you were right about Brandon Loyd, too! :ols:

another guy who doesnt understand my user name and thinks i was ever a brandon lloyd fan.

look at my join date, we already knew brandon lloyd was terrible by the time i signed up lol.

[Oldfan]

My point is I don't see much of a difference between either QB to warrant comments about "starting X will derail the rebuilding process."

Let's stick to your original comment:

Neither seems like a long term part of a rebuild, so I'm not sure why starting either would effect the long term plan for this team.

I think John Beck has the potential to be 5-6 year quality starter mainly because I can throw out his previous NFL performances and grade the tangibles.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Take a moment, read what I've been telling you, and maybe you won't have a knee-jerk reaction to every post. Did I say we need to franchise Rex if he plays well? No, no I didn't. You said if he plays well he's gone, I disagree, I think he'll either be extended mid-season or during FA. If push comes to shove, and he's really proven to be a great QB that other teams are going after, than you franchise him.

Anyway you look at it, if we want Rex here next season he will be here. There's a higher chance of him not being here if he fails, than if he succeeds.

Did you comprehend all of that?

mahons, i like you, but please never again even fathom the idea that we'd use the franchise tag on grossman, no matter how hypothetical youre being. i dont care if grossman throws 100 TDs this year, if we franchised Rex Grossman it might be the worst move in team history lol.

[Oldfan]

Oh come on now, OF, Beck made a few poor decisions last night. I can think of two balls that easily could have been picked, one when he threw back across his body rolling the opposite way, a cardinal no-no for QB's, and I believe the other he was late on his throw to the flat, and the defender was just sitting on the route.

You listened to Theisman whose brain isn't always in gear before he speaks.

He intentionally grounded the ball on the ball thrown across his body. As for being late to the flat, the ball was there, and would have been complete, but the defender dove and made an outstanding play.

[Mahons21]

You listened to Theisman.

He grounded the ball on the ball thrown across his body. As for being late to the flat, the ball was there, and would have been complete, but the defender dove and made an outstanding play.

Yes I did, I didn't watch last nights game closely. However I don't need Theismann to tell me that throwing across your body is a cardinal no for any QB.

As far the flat is concerned, I did go by Theissman's critique and I'd have to re-watch the play to really analyze it.

---------- Post added September-2nd-2011 at 12:23 PM ----------

mahons, i like you, but please never again even fathom the idea that we'd use the franchise tag on grossman, no matter how hypothetical youre being. i dont care if grossman throws 100 TDs this year, if we franchised Rex Grossman it might be the worst move in team history lol.

Lol, I was simply trying to show that we aren't going to lose Rex Grossman next year if he plays well, and yes that would be the worst case scenario that we would have to franchise him. But we both know there's about a .00001% chance of that happening, and that if he plays well he'll just be extended mid-season or during FA.

[Oldfan]

Yes I did, I didn't watch last nights game closely. However I don't need Theismann to tell me that throwing across your body is a cardinal no for any QB..

It's a cardinal sin to throw across your body when you are intentionally grounding the ball? Think about that.

[darrelgreenie]

Beck played 2s vs 2s last night which would be the equivalent personnel match-up Rex had the Colts game.(We all know how that turned out for him)

It seems a lot of people think something has changed based on their interpretation of how Beck played.

I don't think anything has changed nor do I think Beck played as poorly as people like to think.

[Mahons21]

It's a cardinal sin to throw across your body when you are intentionally grounding the ball? Think about that.

Are you sure that ball was grounded? IIRC it was tipped and almost picked.

[The Tris]

Let's stick to your original comment

And lets stick to your original comment:

If Rex Grossman is the best we can do for our starter my optimism for the season and our rebuild is diminished.

I think John Beck has the potential to be 5-6 year quality starter mainly because I can throw out his previous NFL performances and grade the tangibles.

Can't you say the exact same thing about Grossman in this offense?

"I think Rex Grossman has the potential to be 5-6 year quality starter mainly because I can throw out his previous NFL performances and grade the tangibles."

Both QBs have been hampered by poor surroundings in previous performances. Both are now surrounded by better coaching and supporting players. Both should perform better than previous performances.

I just don't see a huge difference in tangibles between the two. I think this is mostly a case of the devil you don't know is better than the devil you do.

I think this team will get above average production out of whoever they start. And honestly, I do not care who starts between them. I just am not going to make a sweeping proclaimation about the direction of the team based on which QB is chosen.

[ArmchairRedskin]

Beck's accuracy has to be a concern. His ball placement on short and intermediate throws leaves a lot to be desired and he still struggles with the deep pass.

Rex is a lot more accurate short to intermediate and he doesn't struggle with deep passes. I like what I saw out of him at the end of last year. Now he has better offensive weapons, what looks to be a really good run game, and a better defense. The turnover argument has merit, but those can be eliminated or at least kept to a minimum. Look at what Favre did a couple of seasons ago. I personally feel like Rex has done nothing to lose the job and Beck has not shown enough to earn it. Bottom line.

[DJD2]

It's a cardinal sin to throw across your body when you are intentionally grounding the ball? Think about that.

IF he was gorunding the ball (which I think is a stretch to say he was) then it was a stupid effing decision. He was running towards the sideline and should have just thrown it 6 rows deep.

Bad decision and rookie mistake.

[Oldfan]

Can't you say the exact same thing about Grossman in this offense?

"I think Rex Grossman has the potential to be 5-6 year quality starter mainly because I can throw out his previous NFL performances and grade the tangibles."

Well, no. I can't say that. In Rex, I see a limited pocket passer who would be a better fit in a scheme built for a pocket passer.

[Mahons21]

Beck played 2s vs 2s last night which would be the equivalent personnel match-up Rex had the Colts game.(We all know how that turned out for him)

It seems a lot of people think something has changed based on their interpretation of how Beck played.

I don't think anything has changed nor do I think Beck played as poorly as people like to think.

Beck had our starting o-line, who I'll admit played very poorly in all facets of the game last night, but they're still a marked improvement above our 2's. Not that this should drastically change anything, but I thought it should be pointed out.

I agree Beck didn't play that poorly last night, but what we saw from him are a lot of the knocks that people have had about Grossman. Specifically bad decisions/throwing off your back-foot.

[Oldfan]

IF he was gorunding the ball (which I think is a stretch to say he was) then it was a stupid effing decision. He was running towards the sideline and should have just thrown it 6 rows deep.

Bad decision and rookie mistake.

He couldn't. He had a defender in his face. Look at the replay.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

IF he was gorunding the ball (which I think is a stretch to say he was) then it was a stupid effing decision. He was running towards the sideline and should have just thrown it 6 rows deep.

Bad decision and rookie mistake.

The ball hit the ground and wasn't even close to catchable by any offensive or defensive players. You could make the argument that he should have turned upfield and attempted to gain some yardage since speed is one of his advantages over Grossman. But in no way did he make a dangerous throw on that play.

[DJD2]

He couldn't. He had a defender in his face. Look at the replay.

Sure

[The Tris]

Well, no. I can't say that. In Rex, I see a limited pocket passer who would be a better fit in a scheme built for a pocket passer.

I guess we simply disagree about the importance of mobility in this current iteration of the Mike/Kyle offense.

I think Schaub is best fit to run this offense. You think Cutler is. Accuracy vs. Mobility.

I assume either could theoretically, and the offense would be tweeked to fit the personnel who can run it at the highest level.

[Mahons21]

I'm gonna re-watch these plays at lunch, apparently I'm having a slight case of dementia.

[DJD2]

The ball hit the ground and wasn't even close to catchable by any offensive or defensive players. You could make the argument that he should have turned upfield and attempted to gain some yardage since speed is one of his advantages over Grossman. But in no way did he make a dangerous throw on that play.

I think that throw was unforgivable for a QB. Every throw back across your body towards the middle of the field is dangerous.

[grego]

Beck's accuracy has to be a concern. His ball placement on short and intermediate throws leaves a lot to be desired and he still struggles with the deep pass.

Rex is a lot more accurate short to intermediate and he doesn't struggle with deep passes. I like what I saw out of him at the end of last year. Now he has better offensive weapons, what looks to be a really good run game, and a better defense. The turnover argument has merit, but those can be eliminated or at least kept to a minimum. Look at what Favre did a couple of seasons ago. I personally feel like Rex has done nothing to lose the job and Beck has not shown enough to earn it. Bottom line.

i actually thought beck- up til last night on a few throws- looked quite accurate in the short and intermediate throws. i'm still not sure about his deep ball, i just feel like he's only taken a few shots, so who knows.

i'm actually not very concerned about rex's turnovers for kind of the same reason- i just think that his play for one season 5 years ago is not a good barometer.

[Shawn12]

I think it's still a tough call to make. Rex is Rex and everyone knows it. Hence, no reason for him to play last night. Maybe it was because he's getting rest as the starter. Maybe it's because we know who Rex is. Who knows. Shanny is mysterious.

Beck on the other hand is still somewhat of a question mark. He seems smart. Moves well. Has a relatively strong arm with some good zip. But still looks a little off at times on the field. He doesn't seem to have a natural touch as a quarterback. His deep ball leaves something to desire.

With that said, to me, I don't think either one makes me content. Can Rex play QB for us for 2 years if needed to develop a draft pick next year? I think so. Could Beck do the same? I think so. I can't see us banking our future success directly on either of these guy though. For this season though...picking between the two of them...I like the edge Rex plays with. I like the mobility of Beck. I think both of them will produce roughly the same season in terms of wins and rebuilding. With that said, I'd like to watch Rex. I guess I favor the edge he plays with. It's sort of like watching Bret Favre. I'm not literally saying Rex is Favre, but it's the only way I can sort of describe it.

[Oldfan]

I guess we simply disagree about the importance of mobility in this current iteration of the Mike/Kyle offense.

I think Schaub is best fit to run this offense. You think Cutler is.

I assume either could theoretically, and the offense would be tweeked to fit the personnel who can run it at the highest level.

Did you read the argument in my OP? Mobility makes the zone stretch and the rollout of the stretch more of a weapon. And, mobility makes it easier to cut down on the sacks. In 2008, Cutler was sacked an NFL low 12 times.

[Mahons21]

Beck is not grounding that ball he's throwing it to sellers, there's about 9 minutes left in the 1st qtr. In addition if he wanted to throw it away, he easily could have thrown it towards the sideline, he's being chased from behind. Poor decision by Beck.

EDIT:

And his throw to the flat is not a "good play by a defender" it's a defender reading Beck's eyes. Sellers is playing TE/AA is lined up close, AA runs a stick route, Sellers goes to the flat, Beck never looks anyway but left, he's extremely lucky this ball isn't picked. On short routes like such a QB needs to be decisive or manipulate the defense with pumps/eyes, Beck does none of this, he throw a late ball that easily could have been a pick 6.

With all that being said, Beck does have some great moments in this game. His throw to Stallworth on 3rd and 12 might be his best of the pre-season he's getting hit and delivers a strike 14 yards down field, extremely impressive in my opinion. Then you have the play where TB gets a free-rusher up the a-gap, Beck uses a side-step and hits Niles Paul for the first down, another play I was impressed by but as much as some, I wonder had that the defender actually been a starter if they would have gotten the sack. Very poor blitzing technique, head is lowered entirely to soon.

There's also an intermediate strike I liked a lot on the 2nd drive, hits AA for about 20 yards. What I like about this play is Beck show's the ability to sit the ball behind the LB's and in front of the safeties, this extremely difficult task is never given enough credit in my opinion.

[The Tris]

Did you read the argument in my OP? Mobility makes the zone stretch and the rollout of the stretch more of a weapon. And, mobility makes it easier to cut down on the sacks. In 2008, Cutler was sacked an NFL low 12 times.

I understand that.

I disagree that mobility trumps all else.

If this were the case, Vince Young would have been a Redskin.