Hitman21ST Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 i agree with you, and i hope he starts against the ravens defense, they will find some other excuse as well, but when he actually has to face some real pressure hes gonna fold like a lawn chair. Thats always been the knock on him and always will Since when has that been a knock on him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HateNMyEyez Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Since when has that been a knock on him? that came from nfl analysts, you needa do some research man ---------- Post added August-20th-2011 at 01:38 AM ---------- anyways goodnite all, thanx for the debate lol remember opinions vary, i dont think ill eat crow but maybe i will, but im far from sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpacePenguin Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 and honestly none of this really matters, Next yr in the draft were gonna take a Qb anyways lol You should start another Suck for Luck thread. There's just not enough defeatism on this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sekhmet187 Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 i agree with you, and i hope he starts against the ravens defense, they will find some other excuse as well, but when he actually has to face some real pressure hes gonna fold like a lawn chair. Thats always been the knock on him and always will---------- Post added August-20th-2011 at 01:35 AM ---------- and honestly none of this really matters, Next yr in the draft were gonna take a Qb anyways lol You don't know how well he'll do anymore than any other person in this thread. Beck could play terrible or he could play just as well and torch their D. The reason people may prefer Beck is so far theres nothing in his resume that says one day he might have a 9-24, 150 yard 4 INT game like Grossman can, and while we don't know if Beck is going to be great, we already know Grossman has games where hes terrible. Looking for a more consistent QB isn't a bad thing considering theres no guarantee about next year either. Hell if Beck turns out to be a good answer at QB, they wouldn't even need to draft a QB and would save a high round pick next year. We don't know yet and the Redskins have a full season to evaluate the new pieces they have had in their system a year now. ---------- Post added August-20th-2011 at 01:42 AM ---------- that came from nfl analysts, you needa do some research man---------- Post added August-20th-2011 at 01:38 AM ---------- anyways goodnite all, thanx for the debate lol remember opinions vary, i dont think ill eat crow but maybe i will, but im far from sold Theres never been a knock on Beck that he chokes. Never. He hasn't even played enough to be CALLED a choker. I think you're getting him mixed up with Grossman, who is know across the league as a guy who chokes in the 4th and when the game is on the line. Which is precisely the reason the Redskins are hoping Beck steps up and takes the job from Grossman in case Grossman hasn't grown as a QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PortisBetts Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 As a bears fan, yes the tampa 2 is basically DESIGNED to cut off the big plays, keep things in front of you, make the offense sustain long drives. It works because most QBs, rbs, etc cannot do this and the mistakes (fumbles, ints, penalties) eventually bail the defense out. It works but it is an awful system to watch, and i think it is the worst matchup for a player like grossman who is always looking to make big 20+ yard passing plays. i agree with you assessment of grossman here, but here in lies a problem. If the cover 2 is dictating you to throw short and drive long, you take it. You dont force plays. This is where i feel there is failure in grossman in that he cant adopt his game. If the deeper throws arent there, he has a hard time checking down. I would rather have the 15 play 7:30 minute field goal drive then a 3 and out with nothin because he tried to go deep. He fails to adopt his game. Beck picks his shots better i feel like. He put up 16 in a half, and although it was against the colts who never play preseason, he still put up more then grossman against a first team d. Again, it is preseason and the competition isnt over, but i feel Beck showed tonight why he should be considered above grossman. I feel he showed his ceiling is much higher in our offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirClintonPortis Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 that came from nfl analysts, you needa do some research man---------- Post added August-20th-2011 at 01:38 AM ---------- anyways goodnite all, thanx for the debate lol remember opinions vary, i dont think ill eat crow but maybe i will, but im far from sold If you mean the same analysts who say he had a weak arm but actually clocked 61.1 mph at the combine.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpacePenguin Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 The funny thing is, if Beck would have forced something downfield to satisfy these clowns, and thrown an int, they'd be flying off the handle, crowning the sex machine as the winner of the QB comp after 2 preseason games.. For the record I think Rex is winning at this point, but not by much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman21ST Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 that came from nfl analysts, you needa do some research man http://www.thephinsider.com/2007/5/2/0358/03650 Very intelligent player who has no problem executing a complicated game plan ... Student of the game who breaks down opposing film and does a good job of making adjustments on the field ... Plays through pain and shows very good poise in the pocket and confidence in his protection, as it is rare to see him bolt too early, as he will stand tall and take some shots under pressure ... Has good throwing mechanics and sets his feet with agility and solid base ... Even with just average timed speed, his feet appear light when forced to move out of the pocket ... In 2006, he received much better pocket protection, allowing him to take his time making reads to locate secondary targets ... Displays awareness to anticipate when the receiver is coming out of the breaks ... With his three-quarters delivery and natural hands, Beck is very effective at getting the ball out quickly ... Shows very good arm whip to get the ball out in time to hit the receivers coming out of their breaks ... In the short-to-intermediate area, Beck's tosses show good zip and velocity. http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?prospect_id=1146 John Beck looks to be a top 10 QB, perhaps going as early as the third round, but more realistically probably fourth or even fifth round. His age (at 25) is a concern, as well as being a product of the BYU system that typically plays weaker teams. His arm strength is average, but his strengths include his accuracy and great decision-making ability, thus avoiding turnovers. He also has a pretty quick release and a good presence in the pocket. His height is average for a QB, but is shorter than the premier QBs in this year's draft (Quinn is 6'4 and Russell is 6'6). http://walkingdeadmanblog.blogspot.com/2011/08/so-you-want-to-know-more-about-that.html Negatives: ..he is no threat running with the ball … Has good arm strength for the short-to-intermediate area, but realizes that he lacks the raw power to air the ball out consistently, keeping the game plan within his athletic talents … Lacks ideal height and valid speed, but makes up for it with good short-area avoid skills and a quick release to unleash the ball on time … Will sometimes revert to locking on to his primary target, resulting in him throwing into double coverage... will show a bit of a wind-up when he releases the ball over the top rather than his normal, three-quarters delivery … When he attempts to air it out, the ball tends to float and fall off, causing the receivers to break off their routes … Needs to do a better job of dropping the deep ball in over the outside shoulder of the receiver, as the ball floats too much on fade and long throws (deep passes will come off his hands too high, as it floats and lofts) … http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/player/scouting/_/id/10484/john-beck Comment: Beck has adequate size and athleticism with solid arm strength. He has good release quickness and shows effective accuracy when he has time to set his feet. Beck isn't great to create out of the pocket, but can elude and deliver the ball to make plays downfield. He is a smart player who shows good vision downfield to take what the defense gives him. He doesn't have the power to fit the ball into tight windows but has enough arm strength to make all the throws with effective weight transfer and timing. Beck is a high-character person with great work ethic, toughness and intelligence Where's the part about him folding under pressure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirClintonPortis Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 The funny thing is, if Beck would have forced something downfield to satisfy these clowns, and thrown an int, they'd be flying off the handle, crowning the sex machine as the winner.For the record I think Rex is winning, but not by much. Indeed, it's funny that he's being criticized for simply finding and getting the ball to an open man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isaacis881 Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 The Beck haters should show themselves. Right here. If he does get the start it won't be for more than a few weeks. The guy isn't a pro football QB. Don't get me wrong I want the Redskins to win so bad I wouldn't care if Pee Wee Herman lead us to a SB.... And maybe he will, Pee Wee that is. Beck won't and couldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sekhmet187 Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Right here. If he does get the start it won't be for more than a few weeks. The guy isn't a pro football QB. Don't get me wrong I want the Redskins to win so bad I wouldn't care if Pee Wee Herman lead us to a SB.... And maybe he will, Pee Wee that is. Beck won't and couldn't. Why do you assume this? I mean the likelihood hes another Kurt Warner, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers etc. is rather slim, but its possible, just like it was possible that a 6th round pick replaced a pro-bowler and went on to completely erase that pro-bowlers name and instead go on to a HoF career himself. Just because something is unlikely doesn't mean you should be positive it can't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isaacis881 Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Why do you assume this? I mean the likelihood hes another Kurt Warner, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers etc. is rather slim, but its possible, just like it was possible that a 6th round pick replaced a pro-bowler and went on to completely erase that pro-bowlers name and instead go on to a HoF career himself. Just because something is unlikely doesn't mean you should be positive it can't happen. Well I guess I could ask you the same question regarding Rex Grossman. Who by the way has actually played in a Superbowl. John Beck hasn't done a single thing in the NFL and he's 30yrs old. I honestly and I hate saying it, think we would have a better shot with Mark Brunell than John Beck. -The right now Mark Brunell, back up for the jets... You hopes are too high and math by your own accord doesn't make sense. Shot in the dark. HTTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sekhmet187 Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Well I guess I could ask you the same question regarding Rex Grossman. Who by the way has actually played in a Superbowl. John Beck hasn't done a single thing in the NFL and he's 30yrs old. I honestly and I hate saying it, think we would have a better shot with Mark Brunell than John Beck. -The right now Mark Brunell, back up for the jets... You hopes are too high and math by your own accord doesn't make sense. Shot in the dark. HTTR Because Rex Grossman has cost his team games time after time and failed after having several long chances at being starting QB. John Beck has only had 4 games on a dysfunctional Miami team. Not saying it means much, but you have to give the guy a shot before you denounce the guy. Saying he could be good is no less crazy than saying Beck will suck hard just because he hasn't played a lot yet. Besides, we don't know if Beck is even the same QB he was when he was drafted. He may have used his failure as fuel to get better. It irritates me to know end to hear sports fans always talk as if they can see the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 I would just like to be the higher than though smart ass here and add that there's no need to put one QB down if you'd rather the other lead this team. Seriously, guys, I never understand why we get into this awful habit of having to put down the other QB in an attempt to justify going with the one we like. Both guys have looked good thus far, it's that simple. Both have been accurate. Beck has better mobility moving in the pocket and on bootlegs, as well as better velocity on his throws. Grossman has better timing, probably due to a better grasp of this offense, and throws a more catchable ball. Thus far, we've seen Grossman throw a fairly accurate deep ball and he has some nice touch on everything he throws, whereas Beck threw almost strictly fast balls, though that could've simply been the game plan there. Either that or he took what the Defense gave him, which isn't a bad thing because it worked and worked well. I think being excessively negative or pointing out Grossman's INT as an indictment of everything else he's done is really narrow-minded. They've both done well overall... putting it any other way is disrespectful. Why anyone would want a guy donning the burgundy and gold to fail is beyond me. Root for both guys, fellas. The basic fact everyone needs to remind themselves about over and over is that both guys moved the offense well. There is no way around that. The only question is who will be more consistent doing it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpacePenguin Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 This thread should be renamed, "John Beck makes it hard on trolls". Baseless comparisons to Peewee Herman, then current day Mark Brunell? Are you even trying? Maybe he'll throw an int next week and you anti Beck posters can have something remotely worth complaining about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newera Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 I actually watched the game again, and Beck actually played pretty well all things considered. Definitely exceeded expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rypien1191 Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 I don't have a horse in the beck rex race, but I honestly do not believe a decision will be made until after the 4th preseason game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bibby Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Missed the game, but hyped to hear that Beck was looking good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Rypien was more a gentle giant than a dork. Williams was antisocial. So was Schroeder. Brunell was a turd. Campbell was pretty cool. Beck is a dork. Mark Brunell was a turd? I thought he was a class act personally. On the game impressed by Becks accuracy and decision making. He showed some zip on his balland also a nice pocket awareness. He is going to have to show he can stretch the field but against a Colts Cover 2 he took what was there and did spread the ball to receivers and Fred Davis - it was not just check downs. I think Beck starts next week and will get a tougher test. I hope we spend a lot of time this week working on the redzone offense, we are kicking too many field goals. ---------- Post added August-20th-2011 at 03:39 AM ---------- guys just stop already about the ignorant tampa 2 crap already, just because thats what defense they run doesnt mean you cant hit intermediate to deep routes. Basically the play calling was so rediculously easy 2nite, most of the qbs in the league woulda had those numbers with the starters He DID hit intermediate throws last night. I recall a deep cross to Moss and seam route to Davis off a roll out and a really nice throw on a slant I think to Gaffney. There will be tougher tests ahead but to carp about how he played last night is silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 this...Beck threw for over 8.2 ypa on 17 attempts. That is explosive. 7.5-8.5 yards per throw is an explosive offense. You cant deny that...Beck was effieicent, accurate, and EXPLOSIVE. 8.2 ypa is NOT "explosive" when your QB his completing 82% of his passes. If your QB is hitting that high a percentage of passes, his ypa should be above 10 ypa. 8.2 yards per attempt is good when your QB his completing 62% of his throws...not 82%. And it's hard to call an offense "explosive" when the QB isn't throwing any TDs anyway. ---------- Post added August-20th-2011 at 05:44 AM ---------- guys just stop already about the ignorant tampa 2 crap already, just because thats what defense they run doesnt mean you cant hit intermediate to deep routes. Basically the play calling was so rediculously easy 2nite, most of the qbs in the league woulda had those numbers with the starters You apparently have zero ability to analyze football. Making the claim that throws were "easy" and that anyone could complete them is the first sign of someone who puts little more than a thimble's worth of analysis into their thoughts and conclusions. Re-watch McNabb from last year and see how many of those "easy" throws he misfired on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rdskn4Lyf21 Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 It's so nice to have two QBs that I'm excited about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRookie Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 and honestly none of this really matters, Next yr in the draft were gonna take a Qb anyways lol It does matter if:.. 1. you would like a little relief from the constant to pressure and media harping over our lack of a "franchise QB" 2. you would like a little time to develop that QB and not be forced to throw them out there year one 3. you realize that drafting a QB doesn't automatically mean he is the answer either -- sometimes they just don't pan out 4. you want us to have the best chance to win -- short term and long term Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouvan59 Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 stallworth dropped the first pass grossman threw Mrs. Grossman, you really need to stop. That pass to Stallworth barely hit his finger tips. You are doing the worst impression of a borderline retard I've ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HateNMyEyez Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 lol you guys should just get over yourself, its funny you claim i made the decision on rex in 2 preseason games which i did not ,but you guys are ready to make a decision on beck after 1 half of a game against a cruddy defense. You all can call me out all you guys want, but if he starts against the ravens you will see exactly wat im talking about. Beck has to throw somethin more then rb screens and quick slants. He needs to try more intermediate passes and deep passes to see where this kid really is with his progression. Im not a beck fan period, but as i said people have there own opinions. Beck will get knocked around and make bad decisions once teams like the ravens stack the box and force him to throw somethin deeper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illone Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Without knowing what exactly the coaches are looking at to make their final decision, wouldn't that make it tough to say Beck is making it easy on the Shanahans? Let's see the entire of pre-season before we annoint this guy. The Colts run D is horrid, I mean the Skins ran all over them in the regular season last year too so I don't gleen much from this game other than Beck did what he was supposed to do. In the regular season against a DCoordinator who is game planning I think Beck will struggle a la Pennington and other guys like him who can't throw it down the field. Grossman's edge is that he is able to spread the defense out a little bit more and create passing lanes where Beck has only showed he can throw swing passes and roll outs. Makes Beck a little easier to defend I'd think. Stack the run and shorter routes, done. If he continues to play this way and the Shannys DO start him, it's going to be a long year with Andrew Luck at the end of the rainbow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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