Oldfan Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 ... Mike worked with Joe Montana. The bandwagon opinion of Joe coming out of college was that he projected to be a backup QB at best. The bandwagon opinion now is that Montana might be the best of all time. Mike worked with Steve Young. The bandwagon opinion of Steve was that the Bucs wasted a draft pick on him. Now, the bandwagon opinion is that Steve Young was a great QB. Mike worked with John Elway. The bandwagon opinion was that Elway was not able to win the big games... until Mike added the ZBS and Elway won big games. Mike worked with Jake Plummer. The bandwagon opinion was that Plummer as a Cardinal was a bust. Mike gave Jake better support and made him a winner. Mike worked with Jay Cutler. The bandwagon opinion was that Cutler was a loser coming out of college. He had losing seasons in high school and college. If Mike had been able to give Denver even a fair defense in 2008 and beyond, the bandwagon today would be slobbering over Jay Cutler in Mike’s offense. The bandwagon cannot grade QBs because it cannot separate the QB from his support system. That’s why Mike is unconcerned when the bandwagon opinion labels him stubborn, egotistical or insane when it comes to grading QBs. He knows the bandwagon riders are clueless. When the bandwagon is right about a QB, it’s just blind luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKM311 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Finally a post from OF I can agree with. I don't see what MS sees in Beck. But I don't really know what I am looking for. MS obviously does, given his history. Do I think Beck has no chance, absolutely. But watching MS handle the Beck situation is really getting me intrigued to see what MS can do with him. Watching him on Friday is going to be really fun. I honestly can't remember the last time I was this excited to watch a preseason game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouvan59 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 ...Mike worked with Jake Plummer. The bandwagon opinion was that Plummer as a Cardinal was a bust. Mike gave Jake better support and made him a winner. First of all I hope Mike Shanahan doesn't give a rat's ass what I think. Secondly, Jake Plummer's rep was very similar to Rex Grossman's when he came to Denver. They aren't the same type of QB but both had the reputation of making too many mistakes. Thirdly, you are absolutely correct about the bandwagon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibbsFactor Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 A QB in the NFL, given a chance, in a system that works to his strengths, with good support can play the game. All of you that say we don't need Luck, being touted as the best prospect since Elway (that's 30 years peeps) and that a QB can be had anywhere get's their wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OuterBanksTarHeel Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 1) Someone should bump this thread when Rex Grossman starts week 1 against the Giants. 2) The notion that fans on a message board about a professional football team should have their opinions devalued on a message board about a professional football team because they aren't professional football coaches is a non-sequitur, otherwise, what's the point of even posting? But maybe they make special message boards for former and current professional football coaches who are qualified to post on message boards. 3) Why do people continue to misuse the term "bandwagon"? A "bandwagon" fan is someone who switches teams left and right. A bandwagon fan is not someone who simply disagrees with some aspect of the way his team's run, even though MS has never said that John Beck would be the starter. A bandwagon fan would not stick around long enough to even care about this topic. PSA: please stop misusing this term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKM311 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 3) Why do people continue to misuse the term "bandwagon"? A "bandwagon" fan is someone who switches teams. A bandwagon fan is not someone who simply disagrees with some aspect of the way his team's run, even though MS has never said that John Beck would be the starter. A bandwagon is when people join a popular opinion or liking of something. It has nothing to do with just sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destructis Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 1) Someone should bump this thread when Rex Grossman starts week 1 against the Giants. Honestly it doesn't matter. I am sure Shanny will start the QB who he feels he can win with. Shanny sees them both on the practice field and in the film room. It's his job on the line and when all is said and done, it just comes down to business is business. That is the one constant that Shanny has shown us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss_Hogg Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 In other words, Mike Shanahan does exactly the opposite of what the fans want or say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 I would agree with this post of course. I've been saying since Shanny came on board... if you could have any other coach in the NFL pick you out a QB, who would you take over Shanahan? Actually, Oldfan, I think you gave me some **** over that one That said, none of the above is any guarantee that Shanny is right about Beck. I know we all know that, but it's important to point out. Also, I'm not sure (directed at Oldfan) why you're simultaneously so down on Grossman. Chicago is where QB's go to die, and he actually did something there. More than Cutler. IMO, Grossman could do great things here under Shanahan's system... and I'm feeling better about him than I am about Beck at this moment. Ask me again saturday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WyomingRedskin Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Very eager to see how Beck does Friday night. We will learn a lot more then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible_Red40 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 I didn't even think Shanahan had an opinion of our opinions because his opinion is that he doesn't know our oinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCClybun Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 He also doesn't give a crap that anyone likes John Beck and will play the best player at the end of camp, love it or hate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkeezgob Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Well, for whatever reason Beck couldn't or didn't cut it in Miami or Baltimore, so we'll see what Mike can do with his 'project'over the coming weeks. Do I think he can make the grade? No, not really, not at this stage of his career, so get me a ticket on the bandwagon then. Do I think Mike can mould him into anything? I have no idea. I have no idea how Mike sees him developing, whether he will indeed be the second coming of Joe Montana, or if he'll used as a competent game manager. If Mike and Kyle decide he's their guy then they've got a good deal more to lose out of this situation than Beck if he stinks it up. Will this be another master stroke or another example of misplaced faith. There's the rub. ---------- Post added August-17th-2011 at 10:51 AM ---------- I didn't even think Shanahan had an opinion of our opinions because his opinion is that he doesn't know our oinions. yes, but that's just your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted August 17, 2011 Author Share Posted August 17, 2011 1) Someone should bump this thread when Rex Grossman starts week 1 against the Giants. If Grossman starts it will only prove that Beck couldn't handle the pressure, a factor which was never predictable2) The notion that fans on a message board about a professional football team should have their opinions devalued on a message board about a professional football team because they aren't professional football coaches is a non-sequitur, otherwise, what's the point of even posting? But maybe they make special message boards for former and current professional football coaches who are qualified to post on message boards. This is a strawman. I'm not devaluing the bandwagon opinions on QBs because they aren't professional. I'm devaluing them because they cannot separate the QB from his support system. You don't have to be a pro to see the sense in that.3) Why do people continue to misuse the term "bandwagon"? A "bandwagon" fan is someone who switches teams left and right. A bandwagon fan is not someone who simply disagrees with some aspect of the way his team's run, even though MS has never said that John Beck would be the starter. A bandwagon fan would not stick around long enough to even care about this topic. PSA: please stop misusing this term.I'm not talking about bandwagon fans. I'm talking about bandwagon opinions.See "bandwagon fallacy" http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/bandwagon.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OuterBanksTarHeel Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 A bandwagon is when people join a popular opinion or liking of something. It has nothing to do with just sports. The term "bandwagon" has a unique context within sports fan culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted August 17, 2011 Author Share Posted August 17, 2011 I would agree with this post of course. I've been saying since Shanny came on board... if you could have any other coach in the NFL pick you out a QB, who would you take over Shanahan? Actually, Oldfan, I think you gave me some **** over that one No, I have always held Mike's opinion on QBs in high regard.Also, I'm not sure (directed at Oldfan) why you're simultaneously so down on Grossman. Chicago is where QB's go to die, and he actually did something there. More than Cutler. IMO, Grossman could do great things here under Shanahan's system... and I'm feeling better about him than I am about Beck at this moment. Ask me again saturday.I'm not down on Rex. I just don't think he has Beck's potential.In Mike's shoes, Beck would have to look bad for Rex to win this competition in my judgment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MassSkinsFan Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 1) Someone should bump this thread when Rex Grossman starts week 1 against the Giants. Why? OF is not saying Beck is definietly better and will start over Grossman. He's just saying Shanny doesn't give a crap what we think about this QB "controversy." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKM311 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 The term "bandwagon" has a unique context within sports fan culture. I am not arguing that. But OF is not talking about teams. He is talking about opinions. You are trying to change his statement and turning it into something that has no relevance to his post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingGibbs Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Why KingGibbs Doesn't Give a Rat's Ass About Oldfan's Opinion on Mike Not Giving a Rat's Ass About Some Bandwagon Thingy on John Beck. Because until I actually see what John Beck can do I won't jump to conclusions or jump on that said "bandwagon." By the way Oldfan. Since apparently you are goodf friends with Mike and he told you he doesn't give a rat's ass? Tell him I said hello. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted August 17, 2011 Author Share Posted August 17, 2011 The term "bandwagon" has a unique context within sports fan culture.When I write something, I choose the context. I was not talking about bandwagon fans. Take my word for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsCrushCowboys Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 In Mike's shoes, Beck would have to look bad to win this competition in my judgment. Agree, I think if Beck looks bad Friday, he starts again the next week. Rex looked really good, but I think that the coaches are still thinking Beck is the guy (if healthy). The O line needs to have another great performance (no sacks allowed, no penalties), recievers need to not drop balls. Best of luck to him, but I think that it is a lot of pressure on him, even for a pre season game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B55Green Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Well done Old Fan, liked it a lot and definitely spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polywog999 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Love your thread, Old Fan! I agree that Shanny has some serious man-love for Beck, but Rex will be the starter. At this late juncture, Beck is too far behind. Rex is in the lead and getting more confident by the day. If Beck has trouble against the colts, he would be remiss to go into the season with Beck (not that he wouldn't) it would make him appear delusional. Shanny is right about Beck - Beck will eventually start, but Rex is the guy this year. (Mike was right about him too) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 :applause: Can't find a single point to disagree on here, well done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticVillain Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 I think after the pre-season, it won't matter who starts at QB. I think both will prove that they can run the offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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