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Why Mike Doesn’t Give a Rat’s Ass About Your Bandwagon Opinion on John Beck

Oldfan

By Oldfan
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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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If you announce Grossman early on as 2011 starter, several bad things follow:

[*]Grossman gets greedy for a big contract

[*]You, Grossman and team endure months of ridicule leading up to season

[*]Grossman goes into the tank mentally

[*]You might be wrong about Grossman, and look particularly stupid later

However, the politically correct answer for the media is to start Grossman not Beck. Beck to them = bust. Grossman = mediocre but serviceable. Both options aren't looked at highly but it seems like Beck is the much more fun target for the media to make fun of . In order for Grossman to get a big contract, you need to have competition for his services -- who was going to offer him big money so why would we need to? And clearly, we ultimately paid him peanuts for a QB. And as for being wrong about Grossman and looking bad to the media -- why wouldn't the same stuff play out for Beck. The media is ALREADY making fun of the Beck move and saying Shanny's rep is on the line. Grossman for his faults, took his team to the superbowl. Beck hasn't done anything yet, and has been written off completely it seems by the media and perhaps the rest of the NFL. Beck IMO is an easier target for the media.

And yeah he might be setting up J Reid to look the fool but he is also in kind then setting about his buddy Sheffter, SI's main football writer,the ESPN guy who covers the team, and the Washington Examiner.

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Oldfan

Oldfan

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Oldfan "Why Mike Doesn’t Give a Rat’s Ass About Your Bandwagon Opinion on John Beck "

ASF "...Because he never had any intention of starting John Beck."

Oldfan, I think I agree with your premise (Mike Shanahan doesn't give a **** what most people think, and goes his own way on QBs.) However, the thread title suggests that he planned / plans to start John Beck.

That's certainly possible. However, my read is different. Either it's truly an open competition, or ... this was a double mind-**** evil genius plan all along.

Problem:

If you announce Grossman early on as 2011 starter, several bad things follow:

  • Grossman gets greedy for a big contract
  • You, Grossman and team endure months of ridicule leading up to season
  • Grossman goes into the tank mentally
  • You might be wrong about Grossman, and look particularly stupid later

12-Point Evil Genius Plan:

  1. Don't resign Grossman in the offseason
  2. Tell people how much you and Chip like Beck
  3. Get Chip to talk about how he'd stand on a table for Beck at draft time
  4. Give Grossman a cheap 1-year contract to prove himself
  5. Call up all the journalists you hate (Reid, etc.) and tell them (deep background) that Beck's the starter
  6. Let Grossman fly under the radar as long as possible, until his performance is so obviously best that he earns the role in everyone else's eyes
  7. Point out later that you were never quoted that Beck would be the starter
  8. Let fans attack dumb journalists like Reid
  9. Win big with Grossman
  10. Remain head coach until most articles with "Shanahan" in text / headline also contain "Genius." (Lexis Nexis)
  11. Turn team over to Chip as head coash
  12. Polish Canton acceptance speech

Why announce either as the starting QB? Why not say something dismissive like, "We're looking to upgrade all the positions including the QB position."

And, if the whole scheme was to get Rex for bottom dollar, why sign him to only a one-year contract? Why not persuade him that they want him as a #2 for five years?

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Mahons21

Mahons21

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Why announce either as the starting QB? Why not say something dismissive like, "We're looking to upgrade all the positions including the QB position."

And, if the whole scheme was to get Rex for bottom dollar, why sign him to only a one-year contract? Why not persuade him that they want him as a #2 for five years?

Because cheap long term contracts are team friendly, not player friendly. The Redskins have the rights to John Beck for the next 2-3 seasons, and they can cut him at any time during that period and it won't cost them much if anything. Really not a great deal for Beck.

Grossman on the other hand, is free to do what he wants after this year, if he plays well he'll force the Redskins to give him a much larger contract, or he'll be able to test the open market, either way he has more options.

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Atlanta Skins Fan

Atlanta Skins Fan

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However, the politically correct answer for the media is to start Grossman not Beck. Beck to them = bust. Grossman = mediocre but serviceable. Both options aren't looked at highly but it seems like Beck is the much more fun target for the media to make fun of . In order for Grossman to get a big contract, you need to have competition for his services -- who was going to offer him big money so why would we need to? And clearly, we ultimately paid him peanuts for a QB. And as for being wrong about Grossman and looking bad to the media -- why wouldn't the same stuff play out for Beck. The media is ALREADY making fun of the Beck move and saying Shanny's rep is on the line. Grossman for his faults, took his team to the superbowl. Beck hasn't done anything yet, and has been written off completely it seems by the media and perhaps the rest of the NFL. Beck IMO is an easier target for the media.

And yeah he might be setting up J Reid to look the fool but he is also in kind then setting about his buddy Sheffter, SI's main football writer,the ESPN guy who covers the team, and the Washington Examiner.

I should have explained that Beck would be a misdirection play in this scenario, in which the coach is taking heat on a temporary basis, which he knows will be relieved when Grossman earns the job and gets the job.

However, you make a good point about his boy Shefter. Shefter supposedly gets the straight scoop.

I do believe that Shanahan likes Beck ... it's not total B.S. at all. I just find it hard to believe that the decision was made for a guy who hasn't ever played a live snap for Shanahan. That's just reckless, and I don't see Shanahan as a reckless guy.

Open competition? Sure. Open competition, hoping Beck will win? Maybe so. Beck's the starter before he ever takes a preseason snap in competition ... is reckless. Especially with all the camp comments about Beck not having an accurate deep ball. Whatever deep ball Beck has should not be a complete surprise to Shanahan. If it's worse than Grossman's, how can Beck get the job in advance? Don't you have to see in real games how the deep ball matters?

What's more, there is the real possibility that Grossman will outplay Beck in preseason. I'd say the odds are very favorable now for that outcome. Shanahan can't reasonably start Beck after Grossman wins the "open competition."

So, the leaks don't make sense. The version that makes sense is the evil one.

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Oldfan

Oldfan

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...Grossman on the other hand, is free to do what he wants after this year, if he plays well he'll force the Redskins to give him a much larger contract, or he'll be able to test the open market, either way he has more options.
We aren't trying to see this from Rex's POV. ASF's Genius Theory relies on the premise that the team sees Rex as it's #1 and wants to get him signed as cheaply as possible and presumably for as long as possible. If that's true, they failed.
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Atlanta Skins Fan

Atlanta Skins Fan

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We aren't trying to see this from Rex's POV. ASF's Genius Theory relies on the premise that the team sees Rex as it's #1 and wants to get him signed as cheaply as possible and presumably for as long as possible. If that's true, they failed.

Fat lady hasn't sung yet.

Most important deals don't get done unti they need to get done.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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"Liking" him and anointing him the future starter aren't necessarily the same..

The thread as far as I noticed was about people's opinion on John Beck being driven by the bandwagon effect as opposed to who should be the starter. I added some stuff on the starter aspect of this but that was my own editorial. Its not as if most of the media likes Beck as a player but simply doesn't think he should beat out Grossman for the job -- instead it seems the thrust of what most say is they are both poor options but Grossman is the lesser of 2 evils.

As to your point about half of the people, agreeing with the thread, I don't think that's a lot. Oldfan is saying back your coach with experience developing QB's versus the media who aren't professional football evaluators for the most part. You'd figure that argument is a slam dunk. If Oldfan made this a direct Beck versus Grossman thread, I would presume the dissension would pick up.

Yeah, because it's some sort of safe and socially-accepted trend to believe in Rex Grossman, one of the most maligned QB's in recent memory.

I never said that Grossman is a socially accepted QB, in fact I said the reverse. But most seem to say he's the more palatable of the 2 options. From my observation the majority of the media's take on this is something like: Both options stink. Grossman is like the bad mechanic who you wouldn't trust to fix your car but you know what you'd at least give your car over to him over Beck -- Beck is a failure as mechanic, Grossman is just a bad mechanic but at least you can trust him to do basic things like change your oil and spark plugs.

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TD_washingtonredskins

TD_washingtonredskins

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But one of the reasons why so many people are able to get away with speculating that Beck will start is because his competition is Rex Grossman.

True, but if either one of them plays well, Shanahan's decision to rely on the two of them is vindicated. Therefore, hoosandskins could have simply wanted Beck (the presumed starter) to succeed in order to shut up those who are saying that the Skins will fail due to their weak QB personnel. Rooting for Beck isn't mutually exclusive with rooting for Rex. I, for one, want them both to look great...it would tell me that either they are gems that needed time or that Kyle's offense puts us in a great position.

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OuterBanksTarHeel

OuterBanksTarHeel

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The thread as far as I noticed was about people's opinion on John Beck being driven by the bandwagon effect as opposed to who should be the starter. I added some stuff on the starter aspect of this but that was my own editorial. Its not as if most of the media likes Beck as a player but simply doesn't think he should beat out Grossman for the job -- instead it seems the thrust of what most say is they are both poor options but Grossman is the lesser of 2 evils.

As to your point about half of the people, agreeing with the thread, I don't think that's a lot. Oldfan is saying back your coach with experience developing QB's versus the media who aren't professional football evaluators for the most part. You'd figure that argument is a slam dunk. If Oldfan made this a direct Beck versus Grossman thread, I would presume the dissension would pick up.

I didn't realize that being a fan of a team meant I had to back every single decision the coach or franchise makes.

I didn't realize that I was so stupid that I couldn't actually develop an opinion of my own without the media sending aliens from Mars to implant a secret "anti-Redskins bias" microchip in my brain one night.

I'm pretty sure the only requirement for me as a fan is to cheer for the team on Sundays.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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I should have explained that Beck would be a misdirection play in this scenario, in which the coach is taking heat on a temporary basis, which he knows will be relieved when Grossman earns the job and gets the job.

However, you make a good point about his boy Shefter. Shefter supposedly gets the straight scoop.

I do believe that Shanahan likes Beck ... it's not total B.S. at all. I just find it hard to believe that the decision was made for a guy who hasn't ever played a live snap for Shanahan. That's just reckless, and I don't see Shanahan as a reckless guy.

Open competition? Sure. Open competition, hoping Beck will win? Maybe so. Beck's the starter before he ever takes a preseason snap in competition ... is reckless. Especially with all the camp comments about Beck not having an accurate deep ball. Whatever deep ball Beck has should not be a complete surprise to Shanahan. If it's worse than Grossman's, how can Beck get the job in advance? Don't you have to see in real games how the deep ball matters?

What's more, there is the real possibility that Grossman will outplay Beck in preseason. I'd say the odds are very favorable now for that outcome. Shanahan can't reasonably start Beck after Grossman wins the "open competition."

So, the leaks don't make sense. The version that makes sense is the evil one.

Ha, OK. I guess we will never know but I don't buy the Grossman contract ploy. But yeah to your point here. Shanny genuinely likes Beck. But he wants him to fight for his job as opposed to handing it to him. I agree with that. As for Grossman outplaying Beck in the preseason, maybe. As for him winning the job that way, maybe too. But i think Grossman has to distinctly outplay him. If its close, IMO he goes with Beck.

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Santana_89

Santana_89

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He also doesn't give a crap that anyone likes John Beck and will play the best player at the end of camp, love it or hate it.

I agree NLC which ever guy is named starter I feel comfortable that Beck or Grossman (personally I'm leaning towards Sexy Rexy) possibly even Kellen Clemens could execute the offense as Kyle envisions it.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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I didn't realize that being a fan of a team meant I had to back every single decision the coach or franchise makes.

I didn't realize that I was so stupid that I couldn't actually develop an opinion of my own without the media sending aliens from Mars to implant a secret "anti-Redskins bias" microchip in my brain one night.

I'm pretty sure the only requirement for me as a fan is to cheer for the team on Sundays.

Funny. But where did I say any of that? I am talking media's opinion versus Shanny's opinion. Yeah I've watched a couple of Beck's preseason games multiple times. But i don't pretend to have a better feel for Beck as opposed to Shanny. If you have studied him closely and are confident in your reasons for why you prefer Grossman, don't like Beck or whatever you actually think, that's all cool of course. In one of my posts, I praised DG who dissected Beck's play in detail and formed his opinion on him based on that -- good or bad. Most of Beck's detractors i have noticed aren't very specific when it comes to his play but tend to jump on the Baltimore and the Dolphins rejected him, etc. If you noticed i haven't said anything about what I think about Beck good or bad, I just said from a pure credibility stand point I'll get behind Shanny's opinion over guys like Mike Florio from Pro Football Talk.

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OuterBanksTarHeel

OuterBanksTarHeel

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Funny. But where did I say any of that? I am talking media's opinion versus Shanny's opinion. Yeah I've watched a couple of Beck's preseason games multiple times. But i don't pretend to have a better feel for Beck as opposed to Shanny. If you have studied him closely and are confident in your reasons for why you prefer Grossman, don't like Beck or whatever you actually think, that's all cool of course. In one of my posts, I praised DG who dissected Beck's play in detail and formed his opinion on him based on that -- good or bad. Most of Beck's detractors i have noticed aren't very specific when it comes to his play but tend to jump on the Baltimore and the Dolphins rejected him, etc. If you noticed i haven't said anything about what I think about Beck good or bad, I just said from a pure credibility stand point I'll get behind Shanny's opinion over guys like Mike Florio from Pro Football Talk.

And I'm contesting the myopic implication in your posts (and posts by others) that--gasp--some of us can't form opinions on John Beck without having our brains abducted by "the media."

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Mahons21

Mahons21

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We aren't trying to see this from Rex's POV. ASF's Genius Theory relies on the premise that the team sees Rex as it's #1 and wants to get him signed as cheaply as possible and presumably for as long as possible. If that's true, they failed.

As someone has already pointed out, they offered Rex a longer deal, he didn't want it. It was his decision to make it a 1-yr deal, and they had to meet him half way, because it's not exactly like they're paying him starting QB $.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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And I'm contesting the myopic implication in your posts (and posts by others) that--gasp--some of us can actually form opinions on John Beck without having our brains abducted by "the media."

As far as myopic, with all respect I think you are taking the point in a myopic way. Perhaps I need to be clearer.

A. People back that Beck will stink based on media platitudes -- hasn't made it so far, 2 other teams rejected him, played poorly in his 4 starts eons ago.

B. People back that Beck will stink based on specifics: arm strength, accuracy, studied many games, etc, etc.

I've been clear in saying Group A seems to be going with the bandwagon effect. And as for Group B their opinion seems irrespective of the media. You seem to want to argue that am impugning Group B, even though am going out of my way to say that Group B IMO doesn't fall in the bandwagon group. And actually am not even attacking anybody here, just saying why i would back Shanny over the media. If you notice I don't say a word about whether i think Beck is better than Grossman and my attacks seems to be squarely aimed at the media as opposed to you or any one else here.

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Oldfan

Oldfan

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ASF ~ I do believe that Shanahan likes Beck ... it's not total B.S. at all. I just find it hard to believe that the decision was made for a guy who hasn't ever played a live snap for Shanahan. That's just reckless, and I don't see Shanahan as a reckless guy.

I think I’m inside Mike Shanahan’s head on how he thinks about QBs because we think alike. He thinks as a scout would. He’s grading what he can see, the tangibles. He also looks for intelligence and work ethic. And, that’s about it.

He knows that there is a substantial unpredictable factor, so he looks for underrated QBs who can be had for bargain prices in compensation and draft picks to limit his investment.

He isn’t sure Beck can cut it because of the unpredictable factor. But to the extent that QBs are predictable, he’s sure he has made a good decision. John Beck has what it takes as far as Mike can see.

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MartinC

MartinC

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McNabb and Gabbert.

Two reasons I'm worried about Mike.

Trading for McNabb was clearly a mistake but at least he admitted the mistake and moved on quickly rather than trying to save face and keep banging our collective heads against that wall. On Gabbert I was right on his bandwagon and thought we should have drafted him but it's way early to hold that as evidence against Mike - Gabbert could be a bust and even if he does well with the Jags there's no guarantee he would have done well here.

There is far more evidence to look at which suggests Mike knows what he is doing with QBs and offense in general than the opposite. no one bats 1.000 though.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

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As someone has already pointed out, they offered Rex a longer deal, he didn't want it. It was his decision to make it a 1-yr deal, and they had to meet him half way, because it's not exactly like they're paying him starting QB $.

I heard the same but the 2nd part of the story is that Skins didn't want to pay him much. Why not sign the dude for the veteran minimum for a few years, a million dollars is peanuts for a QB these days. And if they wanted him bad, why not give him more money to get him to sign a longer contract?

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