csnwashington: Redskins Day After: Who increased stock

[Chachie]

How about just making the long hair fair game, for the defender to grab and hold on if he wants too?

I thought that was already the case. No?

Edit- Oops. Never mind. Answered.

[Art]

dont leave out the Clay Matthews of the league....

Long hair is hippy, white boy fine.

Dreads are for pot-smoking rastas. So, Stallworth is fine with his. The rest gotta go.

Troy is fine too. His is islander styling.

[MumboSauce]

This is some truly ignorant bs. I'm sure those that find them hideous are not black. When maintained It's a fine hairstyle. I'm bald btw. So white long hair is cool..and Islander long hair is cool but a black man having long hair isn't? I hope this is a damn joke. it's 2011, seriously?

[2cents]

It is a joke

[Annonymous Source]

What I want to know is why they dont just grow a 6' afro instead of dreds. That way they wouldnt need a helmet.

[Area51]

This is some truly ignorant bs. I'm sure those that find them hideous are not black. When maintained It's a fine hairstyle. I'm bald btw. So white long hair is cool..and Islander long hair is cool but a black man having long hair isn't? I hope this is a damn joke. it's 2011, seriously?

I was thinking the same thing.

Automatically equating dreads to pot-smokers yet at the same time viewing white players with long hair as 'hippy' and 'fine' sounds pretty racist to me...

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I'm guessing that some on this thread don't understand the meaning of the word "facetious" lol...

Also...why is it that when a Steelers WR gets behind the Skins' secondary but is overthrown, we say the Skins were "lucky"...but when Stallworth gets behind the Steelers secondary and is overthrown, we don't say the Steelers were "lucky"? If that ball is thrown just a little better, it's an immediate 6 points--and nobody ends up caring that Davis was also open.

[pokerhog]

The important part of all those plays was how open the receiver was. The two misses by Roethlisberger were lucky for us because the receivers were wide open! One was confusion by Horton, and the other was DHall simply getting beat, but those were both touchdowns missed by the QB.

On Rex's pass to Stallworth, Stallworth was open also, but not to the extent of those other two. There was safety help, and the window was much smaller. Rex overthrew it, but not bu much. What really bothers me is that very few are talking about our corners. I, too, think Atogwe will help out once he's back, but our scheme is dependent on our corners beable to cover. With DHall gambling as much as he does, it puts alot of pressure on the safety. Problem is, we only have one safety back there since Landry is usually in the box. In the past, Carlos Rogers was able to hold down his man. He couldn't catch a cold in a rain storm, but he could cover man to man. This helped the FS watch out for DHall's side of things. DHall can cover, too, but he gets real gamble-happy out there and when he does, it is the weakness in our scheme. The pressure from our front seven or eight had better get there quick, or like we saw in this game, opposing receivers will be 3 steps in the clear running free to the endzone......

[Newera]

Long hair is hippy, white boy fine.

Dreads are for pot-smoking rastas. So, Stallworth is fine with his. The rest gotta go.

Troy is fine too. His is islander styling.

Kind of bordering racist. Just sayin. Why okay with Troy and Clay.

[KDawg]

I'm guessing that some on this thread don't understand the meaning of the word "facetious" lol...

Also...why is it that when a Steelers WR gets behind the Skins' secondary but is overthrown, we say the Skins were "lucky"...but when Stallworth gets behind the Steelers secondary and is overthrown, we don't say the Steelers were "lucky"? If that ball is thrown just a little better, it's an immediate 6 points--and nobody ends up caring that Davis was also open.

Because Stallworth wasn't the correct decision from a football stand point. And if the ball was thrown a little bit better there were still two defenders on top of him. It was a bad decision. It doesn't mar Rex's performance. Rex played well. But he made poor decisions.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

The important part of all those plays was how open the receiver was. The two misses by Roethlisberger were lucky for us because the receivers were wide open! One was confusion by Horton, and the other was DHall simply getting beat, but those were both touchdowns missed by the QB.

Disagree with the one against Hall. If that is caught, he is almost immediately tackled...Hall was right behind him and he would not have easily outrun hall and made it into the end zone.

On Rex's pass to Stallworth, Stallworth was open also, but not to the extent of those other two. There was safety help, and the window was much smaller. Rex overthrew it, but not bu much.

I'd say Stallworth was just as open as Antonio Brown (the 2nd Steelers' WR who got open against Hall)...and since Stallworth was already in the end zone, he would only have to catch the ball.

---------- Post added August-14th-2011 at 12:19 PM ----------

Because Stallworth wasn't the correct decision from a football stand point. And if the ball was thrown a little bit better there were still two defenders on top of him. It was a bad decision. It doesn't mar Rex's performance. Rex played well. But he made poor decisions.

It's the preseason...the goal isn't to win, but to evaluate. Perhaps the evaulation was on Rex and the new WRs on down-field routes...notice how we only had 2 receptions to TEs...is that because the TEs couldn't get open or that Rex and Clemens never saw them? Or is it because more emphasis was placed on throwing to all the new WRs since we already know what we have at TE?

[KDawg]

It's the preseason...the goal isn't to win, but to evaluate.

Exactly why you throw the pass to the wide open receiver versus the guy with two guys on him.

Perhaps the evaulation was on Rex and the new WRs on down-field routes...notice how we only had 2 receptions to TEs...is that because the TEs couldn't get open or that Rex and Clemens never saw them?

This is extremely strawman. I'm not sure why it's difficult to admit Grossman made some bad decisions but played well as a whole.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Exactly why you throw the pass to the wide open receiver versus the guy with two guys on him.

Unless, of course, the play was called to try downfield no matter what...which IS something coaches often do during the preseason, precisely because they have specific evaluations they are after.

This is extremely strawman. I'm not sure why it's difficult to admit Grossman made some bad decisions but played well as a whole.

How it is a strawman?

I remember when 90% of this board was railing about the extremely weak kickoffs one of our past kickers was having in a game...about how it was obvious his leg was "shot" and needed to be cut. Only after the game did we find out that the special teams coach instructed him to make his kickoffs short to minimize the possibility of a return.

Coaches do stuff like that all the time, particularly in pre season. Hell, I remember Parcells told Phil Simms to throw at Darrell Green "no matter what" on one play...Simms was rightfully avoiding Green's tight coverage during the game, but Parcells wanted to test both Green AND Simms' mental metal. He cared less about extending the drive and more about establishing within his QB the fortitude to attempt--and complete--passes against the best CBs in the game.

So, no...it's not a strawman. It's a possibility that you just either didn't think of or refuse to acknowledge.

[KDawg]

You're right, I didn't think of that.

Of course I did, then I realized how absurd it is to tell a guy to throw into double coverage when there's a guy that's wide open.

"Hey, Rex, throw deep here. I don't care if Stallworth has every defender on him. Ignore anyone short. This is an outside zone play action play designed to get our TE open in the flats, but IGNORE HIM AT ALL COSTS!"

It's all conjecture. But, having a football background tells me that you want your quarterback to make reads and throw the ball to the proper receiver... Not force it into coverage. But heck, what do I know about football?

[SpacePenguin]

Yeah, it doesn't make much sense to tell Rex to force it deep. After all, its Rex Grossman, if anything Shanahan would be telling him to show patience in the pocket, which he did for most of the game.

That play deep to Stallworth screamed **** it i'm going deep.

[Mickalino]

A lot of the articles about Hightower were about how he was fumbling in practice.

Not just practice - but the last 2 whole regular seasons

[KDawg]

I can't fathom why people can't accept that Grossman made mistakes, but still, as a whole, played very well. It's okay that he made mistakes. Really. It is.

[SpacePenguin]

I can't fathom why people can't accept that Grossman made mistakes, but still, as a whole, played very well. It's okay that he made mistakes. Really. It is.

Black or white type thinking, refusing to acknowledge that the truth is often shaded in grey. Pretty common. Doesn't make much sense, but neither does a lot of things that people do in life.

Rex looked like the same QB as last year to me, just with better OL play, better talent at WR, and on a good Rex day. This isn't a bad thing, but people will take it as such.

Oh well.

[TSO]

You're right, I didn't think of that.

Of course I did, then I realized how absurd it is to tell a guy to throw into double coverage when there's a guy that's wide open.

"Hey, Rex, throw deep here. I don't care if Stallworth has every defender on him. Ignore anyone short. This is an outside zone play action play designed to get our TE open in the flats, but IGNORE HIM AT ALL COSTS!"

It's all conjecture. But, having a football background tells me that you want your quarterback to make reads and throw the ball to the proper receiver... Not force it into coverage. But heck, what do I know about football?

You keep stating Stallworth was double covered, but you fail to mention as many times as you do that point how he got behind that double coverage. Did he not get behind that double coverage? Could he not have caught that pass had Grossman placed it even just one foot shorter? Why is it so important to you that he was double covered, yet, the fact that he got behind the coverage (which happens to be all that matters on deep balls) continuously is overlooked?

Rex made one real bad decision the entire game, and that was with the ball the LBer got his hands on where he was trying to hit Armstrong in the endzone. That was it. Everything else was pretty normal and any QB in the league, Brady and Manning included, would've made some of those throws that you consider "bad decisions". So far, you've only been able to name two, one of which clearly wasn't a bad decision (you go for the TD every time a guy gets behind the coverage, even if you have the easier, underneath, throw wide open). So what other bad decisions according to you were there? If those were the only two you're thinking of, isn't it a bit misleading to keep using the plural when it was literally only two, the minimum amount of things you can pluralize in the English language, lol?

I, like Califan, just get the feeling you're trying to downplay Rex's performance. It's not about saying "he made some bad decisions, but played well". It should be much more like "he played very well, but had just a couple bad decisions". That could be applied to every QB in the league who plays well though, including the elite... which is probably why you hate to put it like that, lol. Don't be afraid of success KDawg. It's ok. :pfft:

[KDawg]

You keep stating Stallworth was double covered, but you fail to mention as many times as you do that point how he got behind that double coverage. Did he not get behind that double coverage? Could he not have caught that pass had Grossman placed it even just one foot shorter? Why is it so important to you that he was double covered, yet, the fact that he got behind the coverage (which happens to be all that matters on deep balls) continuously is overlooked?

It's not overlooked. He was behind them, but not far enough with enough space to make that a good place to throw the ball. The only thing that was important to me on that play was that Fred Davis was wide open, and Donte Stallworth was not the best option. Getting behind the double team doesn't do much if there's not a ton of room to put the ball in.

Rex made one real bad decision the entire game, and that was with the ball the LBer got his hands on where he was trying to hit Armstrong in the endzone. That was it.

No, it wasn't. That pass to Stallworth was a bad decision, whether you agree or not. As was the pass he threw to the back of one of the Steelers early in the game.

Everything else was pretty normal and any QB in the league, Brady and Manning included, would've made some of those throws that you consider "bad decisions".

You do understand that Rex Grossman is not Manning or Brady, though, right? They may have put that ball in a proper place for Stallworth to catch... Although, I still have to believe they would have thrown the ball to Fred Davis. But, that's admittedly conjecture.

So far, you've only been able to name two, one of which clearly wasn't a bad decision (you go for the TD every time a guy gets behind the coverage, even if you have the easier, underneath, throw wide open).

Three. And it was a bad decision. You do NOT make that throw with no room, and the defenders not far behind.

So what other bad decisions according to you were there? If those were the only two you're thinking of, isn't it a bit misleading to keep using the plural when it was literally only two, the minimum amount of things you can pluralize in the English language, lol?

No. He played a half. He made three bad decisions. The PA pass that went to Stallworth in the end zone, the pass that bounced off Foote's hands, and the swing/screen (I couldn't tell which it was from the booth) that went to one of the Steelers' backs. And three in a half is not good. It's also not the end of the world.

I, like Califan, just get the feeling you're trying to downplay Rex's performance

Uhhh, I would have sworn I said that he played well. Do me a favor, don't put words in my mouth. It's one of the things I have the least tolerance for. I have said time and time again that Rex looked good, but he made some bad decisions. I still fail to see why that's such a horrendous statement to you guys

It's not about saying "he made some bad decisions, but played well". It should be much more like "he played very well, but had just a couple bad decisions". That could be applied to every QB in the league who plays well though, including the elite... which is probably why you hate to put it like that, lol.

This makes no sense to me. I don't even know what you're driving at. It's the same thing. You're arguing semantics in order to attempt to put words in my mouth.

Don't be afraid of success KDawg. It's ok. :pfft:

What?

[bedlamVR]

Exactly why you throw the pass to the wide open receiver versus the guy with two guys on him.

This is extremely strawman. I'm not sure why it's difficult to admit Grossman made some bad decisions but played well as a whole.

Is the strawman accusation the first defense of the closed mind ?

There are a whole bunch of reasons why Grossman went for Stallworth .

Maybe it was in the game plan to test the WRS

Maybe that was the call and early in the season the QB is looking to follow the script ..

Maybe Grossman has confidence in his arm and Stallworths ability to make a play on a contested ball and went for the kill shot - Something I applaud .

Maybe Grossman had no confidence in Fred D - He is known for his lack of concentration and his drops - and I know that had he gone for Fred D and the ball bounced incomplete then armchair coaches would be critiquing his lack of killer instinct and went for the safe toss to the TE .

Maybe Grossman thought **** it I am going deep ...

Calling a ball that the only guy who was going to get it was the WR in the endzone or in the a guy in the tunnel a bad decision is viewing things with the taint of hindsight ....

[KDawg]

Is the strawman accusation the first defense of the closed mind ?

What? No.

There are a whole bunch of reasons why Grossman went for Stallworth .

Maybe it was in the game plan to test the WRS

Could have been. But I doubt it. No coach ever wants to tell their QB, who is not on the elite level, to force a throw into coverage. I think this is one that's reaching for an excuse rather than an accurate reason.

Maybe that was the call and early in the season the QB is looking to follow the script ..

It was an outside zone play action play. That play is DESIGNED to go to the tight end. So the call had nothing to do with it. Grossman made the decision to throw deep because he thought Stallworth had a step, he thought he could put it in there. He couldn't put it in there. If he had thrown that with a little less umph the Steelers would have had it. What I did like about the throw was that Rex put it far, rather than short. If you're going to miss in that situation, that's where you miss.

Maybe Grossman has confidence in his arm and Stallworths ability to make a play on a contested ball and went for the kill shot - Something I applaud .

Sure. That's all great. And I like that as well. Believe me. But that doesn't make the decision to do that a good one. Especially with a receiver wide open on an intermediate route.

Maybe Grossman had no confidence in Fred D - He is known for his lack of concentration and his drops - and I know that had he gone for Fred D and the ball bounced incomplete then armchair coaches would be critiquing his lack of killer instinct and went for the safe toss to the TE .

I certainly wouldn't have. That's the correct throw. If Davis drops that, it's his fault, not Grossman's. Though, I know that statement I just made is going to fall on deaf ears when it involves the Grossman fan club

Maybe Grossman thought **** it I am going deep ...

Very well may have been it.

Calling a ball that the only guy who was going to get it was the WR in the endzone or in the a guy in the tunnel a bad decision is viewing things with the taint of hindsight ....

Is it? When the ball was in the air I said, "What is he doing!?"

How can anyone, with a straight face, tell me that throwing to Fred Davis wasn't a better decision?

I get the feeling that a lot of you would be steaming mad if he threw that and it got picked off, but since it didn't it's okay. He made mistakes, yes, plural, people. And you know what? It's okay. He moved the offense down field. He has a strong command over the offense. He knows his players. He knows what he needs to do for the most part. Him making a few mistakes it not the end of the world. Seriously.

And just so everyone is aware of my stance on Grossman:

Grossman will do a lot of great things for us if he wins this starting job. But, he's going to turn the ball over. He always has. He's going to make mistakes. It's part of his nature as a quarterback. I am by far happier with Grossman at the helm than I ever was with McNabb, and I still think Grossman should have started for us last year and we should have avoided McNabb altogether.

[SpacePenguin]

Is it? When the ball was in the air I said, "What is he doing!?"

My reaction was... "that is way too late to throw deep"....but its nothing new with Grossman. If he doesn't make a decision in 2-3 seconds, its going to be lobbed deep.

Just glad he didn't do it as much as usual.

[KDawg]

My reaction was... "that is way too late to throw deep"....but its nothing new with Grossman. If he doesn't make a decision in 2-3 seconds, its going to be lobbed deep.

Just glad he didn't do it as much as usual.

He really did look good for the most part. He'll do a nice job for us this year. And he'll leave some of us scratching our heads from time to time. It's what we get with him.

[TSO]

It's not overlooked. He was behind them, but not far enough with enough space to make that a good place to throw the ball. The only thing that was important to me on that play was that Fred Davis was wide open, and Donte Stallworth was not the best option. Getting behind the double team doesn't do much if there's not a ton of room to put the ball in.

No, it wasn't. That pass to Stallworth was a bad decision, whether you agree or not. As was the pass he threw to the back of one of the Steelers early in the game.

You do understand that Rex Grossman is not Manning or Brady, though, right? They may have put that ball in a proper place for Stallworth to catch... Although, I still have to believe they would have thrown the ball to Fred Davis. But, that's admittedly conjecture.

Three. And it was a bad decision. You do NOT make that throw with no room, and the defenders not far behind.

No. He played a half. He made three bad decisions. The PA pass that went to Stallworth in the end zone, the pass that bounced off Foote's hands, and the swing/screen (I couldn't tell which it was from the booth) that went to one of the Steelers' backs. And three in a half is not good. It's also not the end of the world.

Uhhh, I would have sworn I said that he played well. Do me a favor, don't put words in my mouth. It's one of the things I have the least tolerance for. I have said time and time again that Rex looked good, but he made some bad decisions. I still fail to see why that's such a horrendous statement to you guys

This makes no sense to me. I don't even know what you're driving at. It's the same thing. You're arguing semantics in order to attempt to put words in my mouth.

What?

lol, you can call it a bad decision as many times as you want, but if the deep guy gets behind the coverage I always want my QB to throw the ball to him. Period. I don't give a crap if he's triple-covered. There was enough room that if the ball was placed just a foot shorter, Stallworth has a chance at a big time TD. So who's arguing semantics here, or shall I say, nitpicking?

Oh, and I'm not putting words in your mouth. Though it may be semantics, they are legitimate gripes. You seem to want to mention the bad decisions first along with feel the need to focus on them. That can easily be construed by anyone that you're downplaying Grossman's play. Though it may not be true, it's reasonable for anyone to assume you're doing so when the "Grossman played well" part is the footnote to your otherwise detailed exegesis of his play. Heck, Grossman didn't just "play well", he excelled. You could win a ton of games with that kind of QB play, including the few bad decisions he made, don't you think? Seriously, let's not exaggerate and claim I'm just arguing semantics to put words in your mouth.

Also, i'm not sure I remember any screen pass going into the back of a Steeler. I do remember the one that fell to the ground because their DE or whatever got in the way and Grossman had to float it above him, but that was more a good play on the Steelers part than a bad one on Grossmans. This even further drives the point that you're looking for anything to downplay his performance. If you're not, you're doing one heckuva a bad job explaining things.

I'll leave you the last word... this really isn't that significant of an issue to debate with you. If you're honestly just trying to point at what Grossman did wrong there knowing he more than played well, than I'm sorry for misunderstanding you.

*Edit* I just noticed a few of your recent posts above right now and I'm glad you cleared up your stance. It may have been prudent for you to do that before you focused in on the bad decisions so that anyone could see you weren't downplaying his performance, but unfortunately, the way you put things at first just seemed that way. Like I said, it may not have been the case or your intention, but I think if you're being fair you could see why it was taken that way.