You say it now, but you're a liar.

[GibbsFactor]

\would Monk, DG, Riggo, Joe T, Grimm, Jacoby, Sammy, Sonny, Gibbs, Wilbur, or Sean Taylor agree to take a dive? hell no, because they are men not cowards. the question in itself is ridiculous and i cannot believe some advocate such a shameful act.

I think you need to rethink the position of the suck for luck crowd.

First, you cannot take a "dive" as you say in the NFL. It's a collision sport. Someone would get hurt.

Second, we have no legends on this team save for Fletcher/Cooley/Moss, and these poor guys have lived with being on crap teams most of their careers. The rest have work to do.

Finally, this team is TANKING/Rebuilding/looking for the future, use which ever word lets you sleep at night...

Look at the free agent acquistions. We paid a career "up and coming" backup more then a much sought after Superbowl Champion.

The record this year matters not to the coaches. They are rolling with what they have with the hopes of creating an actual young nucleus a new QB in '12 can adopt. The veteran WRs are here to push the young bucks. This season is all about establishing a young core, to find a diamond in the rough here and there so that when the new QB gets here, he's got some semblance of a team to lead.

Three or four quarterbacks next year. We will have one of them, be it Cousins, Jones, Barkley or perhaps we get lucky.

If we somehow go 10-6, make the playoffs and miss out on one of those four, then, where will we be as an organization?

Answer that one. It's shortsighted and lacks wisdom.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

the nfl is not mlb or nba bro. pieces for the future only work if they end up contributing. i for one am not willing to sacrifice dignity, respectability, trustworthiness and pride for the chance of getting one guy that may possibly be a great player. maybe you are and maybe thats where we differ. i dont doubt your loyalty to the team or anything like that but to me football is a mans game and men dont take dives.

I actually thought RexGrossmanSuperBowl, uhmmm, TonyRomoProBowl's VERY public breakdown over the ATN today would take some beating, but hearing the Redskins inferred as having 'dignity, respectability, trustworthiness and pride' to lose may just of stolen the delusional Cowboys mantle.

Have I been in a coma the past two decades and missed all this from the B&G?

Hail.

[ouvan59]

then he busts, and we go in a different direction. but we wont know if hes a bust for at least 2-3 years, so that gives us a window to make other changes if necessary. in that 2-3 year window while we build around our QB id hope that we are getting better everywhere so if that QB does bust, we still have a good enough team around him that we can compete (ala the vikings).

That is the worst plan I've ever seen. Don't know if you've noticed or not but we are already making those changes. We've become a much younger team in the last two years. Now is the time to teach these guys to win not lose. But the Einstein plan is for us to tank this year and then find out in 2 or 3 years whether we need to tank again. Sounds a lot like the way the Bengals and Lions do things.

[GibbsFactor]

Oh, okay. So the plan is to draft a quarterback in 2012, and if he busts out in two or three or so years, in 2015 we can just draft another guy.

Hasn't the point around here been that we can't[/] compete without a quarterback? And now we're getting into the what if scenario that if the franchise quarterback of the future turns out to not be effective, then that's okay, we;ll just go get another guy? Because more losing won't begit more disgruntled players who don't want to play here, another coaching change which will disrupt continuity, and won't see us wasting a first round draft pick on a quarterback.

There are flaws in the suck for a quarterback argument...

Newsflash, players already don't want to play here. We are rock bottem. Embrace it and use it to get better.

[rockfan7224]

I swear I'm so tired of hearing people talk about Luck and how they hope we suck so that we can draft him. I for one, want my team to win every time they step on the field and I'm rooting for them to win, I don't give a **** about next years draft.

Also I'm going to start keeping track of who wants us to suck, so that we can draft Luck. On gameday when they are on this thread ****ing about losing, I can remind them that this is what they wanted! :cool:

:applause:

Please do.

Serioulsy, some of you actually *hope* to see a 4-12, 5-11 record? No QB is a sure thing, so to essentially hope for failure in the "possiblity" of getting Luck, who for all we know could **** the bed this season, is asinine. Who knows, maybe we go 9-7 end up picking in the mid round, and have an Orakpo type player fall to us again.

And also don't try to pull the "hypothetical" card either. Saying John Beck or Rex Grossman could magically have a fantastic year and lead is to the playoffs is the same exact thing as hoping that one of the QB's in next years draft is the next Peyton Manning. It just as likely they could be the next JaMarcus Russell or Ryan Leaf.

So to essentially hope to fail this season is ridiculous because it's impossible to predict with 100%certainty what success a QB is going to have or just what will happen. Say we go 2-14, draft Andrew Luck and he has a season ending injury in the preseason, then where does that leave us? I can go on and on and on and on.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Oh, okay. So the plan is to draft a quarterback in 2012, and if he busts out in two or three or so years, in 2015 we can just draft another guy.

Hasn't the point around here been that we can't[/] compete without a quarterback? And now we're getting into the what if scenario that if the franchise quarterback of the future turns out to not be effective, then that's okay, we;ll just go get another guy? Because more losing won't begit more disgruntled players who don't want to play here, another coaching change which will disrupt continuity, and won't see us wasting a first round draft pick on a quarterback.

There are flaws in the suck for a quarterback argument...

you can compete with a vet QB if your team is sick around him. kurt warner and the cardinals, favre with the vikings (and maybe mcnabb this year), saints with brees, hell even vick on the iggs last year. point is, you take a shot with a QB and you continue building the defense/run game/skill positions. if the QB busts, then at least you still have (hopefully) a very good core of other players in place that if you can find a carson palmer or drew brees that hits FA, you can snag him and contend.

theres no set path, but the most successful teams are the ones that drafted their QBs in the first round and built around him.

[scruffylookin]

Last game of the year.

Redskins 2-13

Bills 2-13

Skins own the tiebreak.

Anyone really want the Redskins to win that last game in Philly?

If you do, you're a liar.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

That is the worst plan I've ever seen. Don't know if you've noticed or not but we are already making those changes. We've become a much younger team in the last two years. Now is the time to teach these guys to win not lose. But the Einstein plan is for us to tank this year and then find out in 2 or 3 years whether we need to tank again. Sounds a lot like the way the Bengals and Lions do things.

the lions have matt stafford who looks like a franchise QB, maybe the best WR in the NFC, and maybe the best DT in the NFC. all because they sucked for a few years. they just drafted another good runningback on top of one from last year, have a decently young oline, and won their last 4 games last season with a backup QB.

any sane person would take their roster over ours 5 times.

[KDawg]

you know what the problem is? Our fans, with a rebuilding team, still expect us to go 16-0. (not literally...) but most expect us to win week in and week out. Be realistic. We very well could go 2-14. We could also go 9-7. But we're going to lose. And we're going to lose more than anyone here wants to believe. Be ready to take it in stride. It's part of a process.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

my point was losing if youre a ****ty team is not a big deal because it can reap big benefits, especially when that benefit is a player at the most important position and hes being touted as a cant miss guy.

But you portrayed MY point as being against adding key players to the team ...("yeah, adding a piece for the future sucks. the nats made a bad move by getting harper and strasburg cause theyre last place in the division.")

Was there REALLY a need to distort my words to that level?

and the original post was about being wired to compete, and we'll all be mad if we do XYZ in the heat of the games. well im telling you right now this team looks so bad on paper at the moment that its just gonna turn into pure comedy, not anger. we'll all be laughing about the BECKONING in a few years and look back on this season as a joke.

But you responded to MY post, which only talked about how it would be better to wait until the Wizards actually won something with John Wall before using him as an example lol...

if youre gonna suck, you might as well suck big time. you think i wouldnt go back in time in 2009 for zorns last year and lose 3 more games to get sam bradford? you really think winning 3 more games that season helped us at all? built team morale? did anything? not at all. and spin that, you think the rams would have been content winning 2 more games and losing out on bradford? not a chance.

Um...what does that have to do with the question I asked you? lol *scratches head*...

you think id have been happier had the nats won 3 more games and drafted dustin ackley than strasburg? no way.

so to your analogy with john wall, the wizards got a great player in john wall. a few more poor seasons with high draft picks and theyll build a nice nucleus for themselves.

And you have convinced yourself that it's somehow harder to build a "nice nucleus" by not picking in the top 10 of each round?

Again--a high draft pick should be seen as a consolation prize...not a goal.

this stuff takes time. look at detroit. they ended up with stafford, johnson, and a bunch of other high draft picks, and theyre slowly building a good team.

And...they could not have slowly built a good team if they were picking #12 all those years, is that what you're saying?

Curious question (not just for you, but for anyone): What if the Lions don't go above 8-8 over the next 3 years? Does that affect your view of how having multiple top 5 picks benefitted them?

if luck is as good as hes being hyped to be, we can lose as much as we want this year. ill take one terrible season if it means were set for a decade. im sure colts fans are glad they won 3 games in 1997.

1) Reality is not linear that way.

2) The Broncos got Cutler after going 13-3.

3) Over the past 11 years, the average amount of wins in the previous season by teams who drafted "hit" QBs in the 1st round is 6 wins. The average amount of wins in the previous season by teams who drafted "miss" QBs in the 1st round is 4 wins. Less wins does not equate to better QBs.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Last game of the year.

Redskins 2-13

Bills 2-13

Skins own the tiebreak.

Anyone really want the Redskins to win that last game in Philly?

If you do, you're a liar.

bills will do decently this year with fitzpatrick, hes a 6 win QB.

we have to worry about miami.

[KDawg]

bills will do decently this year with fitzpatrick, hes a 6 win QB.

we have to worry about miami.

Fitzpatrick is solid. With a better surrounding cast, he could get them into the playoffs. He's a very good QB.

[onedrop]

I actually thought RexGrossmanSuperBowl, uhmmm, TonyRomoProBowl's very public breakdown over the ATN today would take some beating, but hearing the Redskins inferred as having 'dignity, respectability, trustworthiness and pride' to lose may just of stolen the delusional Cowboys mantle.

Have I been in a coma the past two decades and missed all this from the B&G?

Hail.

the players TRUST Shanahan and each other, you can lose and still have DIGNITY, as long as you make the effort you are RESPECTABLE. when you lay down for potential gain or because youre scared you can claim none of these.

it is embarrassing to be mismanaged and horrible. it is shameful and unforgivable to lose on purpose. if you cannot see the difference there are no words i can type that will assist you.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

you know what the problem is? Our fans, with a rebuilding team, still expect us to go 16-0. (not literally...) but most expect us to win week in and week out. Be realistic. We very well could go 2-14. We could also go 9-7. But we're going to lose. And we're going to lose more than anyone here wants to believe. Be ready to take it in stride. It's part of a process.

and i for one am glad that its finally at this point, where we are really rebuilding. and im sure if i dug through my history id find posts about me saying this fanbase couldnt take a rebuild and clearly this board is proving that right now.

[rockfan7224]

the lions have matt stafford who looks like a franchise QB, maybe the best WR in the NFC, and maybe the best DT in the NFC. all because they sucked for a few years. they just drafted another good runningback on top of one from last year, have a decently young oline, and won their last 4 games last season with a backup QB.

any sane person would take their roster over ours 5 times.

And how's Matt Stafford working out? He hasn't completed a full season yet and he's entering his 3rd year?

[Califan007 The Constipated]

you know what the problem is? Our fans, with a rebuilding team, still expect us to go 16-0. (not literally...) but most expect us to win week in and week out. Be realistic. We very well could go 2-14. We could also go 9-7. But we're going to lose. And we're going to lose more than anyone here wants to believe. Be ready to take it in stride. It's part of a process.

"Expect" or "want"?

I've yet to see anyone on this board this offseason who expects the Redskins to have a lot of wins. And the reality is that there WILL be multiple games in which the Redskins SHOULD win...

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Fitzpatrick is solid. With a better surrounding cast, he could get them into the playoffs. He's a very good QB.

agreed, he seems like hes gotten a lot better from his bengal days (although he still beat us on that 4-11-1 team lol).

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Last game of the year.

Redskins 2-13

Bills 2-13

Skins own the tiebreak.

Anyone really want the Redskins to win that last game in Philly?

If you do, you're a liar.

But you play to win the game scruff. NO exceptions.

Keep up.

Hail.

[LD0506]

Look at the free agent acquistions. We paid a career "up and coming" backup more then a much sought after Superbowl Champion.

Newsflash, players already don't want to play here.

Funny, it's almost like you're so busy foaming at the mouth defending your position that you don't even notice you answer your own questions. We pay a premium to bring in players, a penance for years of Vincompetence, because we haven't been good. So the plan is to get even worse to buy more Powerball tickets on a might be draft pick?

Ok, got it

I need to STFU and let Cali and KDawg deal with this, they do it so much better than I could

Xanax, take me away.........

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

And how's Matt Stafford working out? He hasn't completed a full season yet and he's entering his 3rd year?

hes 2-0 against us. and he looked very good last year before he got hurt. and he played 10 games in 09.

hes 23 and has shown legit flashes of being a monster. if he can stay upright hes gonna be a 25+ TD guy with calvin johnson.

but i guess youd rather have grossman or beck?

[JPCreativelab]

Last game of the year.

Redskins 2-13

Bills 2-13

Skins own the tiebreak.

Anyone really want the Redskins to win that last game in Philly?

If you do, you're a liar.

i want them to win that game...

say its Detroit, would you want them to lose that game as well?

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

"Expect" or "want"?

I've yet to see anyone on this board this offseason who expects the Redskins to have a lot of wins. And the reality is that there WILL be multiple games in which the Redskins SHOULD win...

And I'll wait for the first back-to-back loses and the threads screaming blue murder for that theory to fall flat.

Hail.

[KDawg]

"Expect" or "want"?

I've yet to see anyone on this board this offseason who expects the Redskins to have a lot of wins. And the reality is that there WILL be multiple games in which the Redskins SHOULD win...

Want is a non sense term. I want 53 players who are the top 1-3 in their position on the team. It's not going to happen.

Let's have real expectations. It's okay to "want" to win. But understand it's not going to be an easy process. People that honestly believe we're going to win are setting themselves up for major disappointment. We've sucked for 20 years, a few more won't hurt. What matters is the process has begun. We will be winning again, and soon. If we're awful in 2012 and not on the road in 2013, I can understand. It's going to be rough this year. I "want" us to be awesome. I'll be thrilled if it happens. But I have no expectations.

[onedrop]

I think you need to rethink the position of the suck for luck crowd.

First, you cannot take a "dive" as you say in the NFL. It's a collision sport. Someone would get hurt.

Second, we have no legends on this team save for Fletcher/Cooley/Moss, and these poor guys have lived with being on crap teams most of their careers. The rest have work to do.

Finally, this team is TANKING/Rebuilding/looking for the future, use which ever word lets you sleep at night...

Look at the free agent acquistions. We paid a career "up and coming" backup more then a much sought after Superbowl Champion.

The record this year matters not to the coaches. They are rolling with what they have with the hopes of creating an actual young nucleus a new QB in '12 can adopt. The veteran WRs are here to push the young bucks. This season is all about establishing a young core, to find a diamond in the rough here and there so that when the new QB gets here, he's got some semblance of a team to lead.

Three or four quarterbacks next year. We will have one of them, be it Cousins, Jones, Barkley or perhaps we get lucky.

If we somehow go 10-6, make the playoffs and miss out on one of those four, then, where will we be as an organization?

Answer that one. It's shortsighted and lacks wisdom.

you put your team on the field and play to win. i dont give a damn about next years draft. i want to beat the giants sept 11. winning changes everything. if we were already a winning organization we would be wringing our hands and you draft lovers wouldnt be salivating over potential could bes next year. change the culture and have a good year and players will want to come here. now if we leave it all on the field and suck fine, but to do it on purpose as some suggest is cowardly.

[GibbsFactor]

Last game of the year.

Redskins 2-13

Bills 2-13

Skins own the tiebreak.

Anyone really want the Redskins to win that last game in Philly?

If you do, you're a liar.

/thread....

Han wins the thread!