You say it now, but you're a liar.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Unless Beck pulls a miracle, we're going to need to draft a QB in April. Of course I will be upset watching the team lose throughout the season, and I don't want us to purposefully tank, but I can handle another losing season if it means we get our franchise QB of the future. And I can handle a mediocre/losing season in 2012 if he is to hold a clip board or gets thrown in and needs time to adapt. As long as we're moving in the right direction and are building a perennial SB contender.

Needing miracles to sneak into the playoffs isn't a team to strive for. I'd gladly take a couple more losing seasons if it means we're building a dominant franchise that's respectable again. And you're a liar if you say you wouldn't sacrifice the short term to achieve that.

i was really upset when the nationals lost those final couple games in order to get stephen strasburg and bryce harper.

just crushed.

really upset.

like i really didnt want us getting those two guys.

at all.

[GibbsFactor]

i was really upset when the nationals lost those final couple games in order to get stephen strasburg and bryce harper.

just crushed.

really upset.

like i really didnt want us getting those two guys.

at all.

I really hated seeing the Wizards get that first pick and draft John Wall. And when the Caps took that Russian kid a few years back, what the ****???

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Also I'm going to start keeping track of who wants us to suck, so that we can draft Luck. On gameday when they are on this thread ****ing about losing, I can remind them that this is what they wanted! :cool:

Want me to ink mine in for you? Sadly, I'll be too satisfied at a loss to ***** about it this year, but please, ass me in bold capitols and highlight it. Just so you don't forget.

And I promise not to be so petty and pathetic in turn as to do a "told you so" thread if or when we have our guy and we're consistently challenging for honours.

---------- Post added August-3rd-2011 at 09:46 AM ----------

I really hated seeing the Wizards get that first pick and draft John Wall. And when the Caps took that Russian kid a few years back, what the ****???

Uncannily the Colts fans said similar coming off the back of a similar two decade stretch of mediocrity as ours back in '97 when they finished 3- 13 and ended up with some punk called Manning.

Hail.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

I really hated seeing the Wizards get that first pick and draft John Wall. And when the Caps took that Russian kid a few years back, what the ****???

the caps would have been better off fighting their guts out than getting that alex ovechkin guy. getting that 1st overall pick is a losers mentality and doesnt help win games!

but to be honest, im not gonna root for us to lose until we're on the home stretch of really securing a good draft pick. and frankly, i dont have to root for it, were gonna suck badly this season.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I really hated seeing the Wizards get that first pick and draft John Wall.

How did the Wizards do, by the way?...

Maybe your post would hold more weight if it was made after the Wizards went on to achieve something with Wall other than a 23-59 record lol...

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

How did the Wizards do, by the way?...

Maybe your post would hold more weight if it was made after the Wizards went on to achieve something with Wall other than a 23-59 record lol...

yeah, adding a piece for the future sucks. the nats made a bad move by getting harper and strasburg cause theyre last place in the division.

im surprised youre not seeing the bigger picture with these other teams. its not about going 8-8 every year and hoping to eek into the playoffs with some "ball bounced our way" wins. this team has been a heroin addict for the last decade. its time we hit rock bottom and went to full blown rehab.

[ouvan59]

How did the Wizards do, by the way?...

Maybe your post would hold more weight if it was made after the Wizards went on to achieve something with Wall other than a 23-59 record lol...

These guys just proved my point. They can't undertstand the concept that the NFL isn't the NBA or the NHL.

[onedrop]

i was really upset when the nationals lost those final couple games in order to get stephen strasburg and bryce harper.

just crushed.

really upset.

like i really didnt want us getting those two guys.

at all.

yeah, those guys have really contributed a LOT so far. if anything that proves why you dont play to lose. injuries can happen and the NFL doesnt have an exclusive rights minor league.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

yeah, those guys have really contributed a LOT so far. if anything that proves why you dont play to lose. injuries can happen and the NFL doesnt have an exclusive rights minor league.

yeah, having pieces for the future sucks. i mean we havent won the world series so what a waste!

i guess patience are just guys at the hospital waiting to recover?

[Califan007 The Constipated]

yeah, adding a piece for the future sucks. the nats made a bad move by getting harper and strasburg cause theyre last place in the division.

Good lord, that's not even the point ANYONE on this thread was making :doh:

Here's a tip for everyone to remember: when you start relying on straw men arguments to make your point, you've lost your point.

im surprised youre not seeing the bigger picture with these other teams. its not about going 8-8 every year and hoping to eek into the playoffs with some "ball bounced our way" wins. this team has been a heroin addict for the last decade. its time we hit rock bottom and went to full blown rehab.

I'm surprised (well, not really lol) that you're not seeing the point I was making: which is, claiming that tanking/losing/whatever a season was worth it in order to get John Wall will become irrelevant if the Wizards don't actually become a good team. If the Wizards never have a winning season over the next 10 years, will you still be claiming that it was worth the losses to draft him and that playing better and winning more games still would have left the team worse off?

Truly think about that before answering.

[onedrop]

yeah, having pieces for the future sucks. i mean we havent won the world series so what a waste!

i guess patience are just guys at the hospital waiting to recover?

the nfl is not mlb or nba bro. pieces for the future only work if they end up contributing. i for one am not willing to sacrifice dignity, respectability, trustworthiness and pride for the chance of getting one guy that may possibly be a great player. maybe you are and maybe thats where we differ. i dont doubt your loyalty to the team or anything like that but to me football is a mans game and men dont take dives.

[NattyBo]

i for one am not willing to sacrifice dignity, respectability, trustworthiness and pride

I hate to break it to you, but this franchise hasn't been/had any of those things for a long time now.

[KCClybun]

...So what if the next quarterback we draft turns out to be a bust?

Is that a thought no one is having? Oh, I know guys like Andrew Luck and Landry Jones are supposed to be "can't miss"...but they can. Just like Jake Locker was can't miss in 2010, and then was a shocking first round pick in 2011, when some evaluators graded him as low as a early third round pick. Like Jimmy Clausen was can't miss, and Brady Quinn was can't miss, like VY and Matt Leinart were can't miss, and Alex Smith and dozens upon dozens of overhyped "can't miss" prospects before him.

This over eagerness to get a new quarterback really seems like it could come back to bite us in the butt, and there is no guarantee that we will magically find the guy who will "save" us. The "we won't be good until 2013 anyway so I'm just going to sit here and crap on everyone else's parade" crowd are a lot more annoying than your normal Kool-Aid drinker. At least the Kool-Aid drinkers have hope.

Like Burgold said; you're lying to yourself if you're going to turn up your nose and call this a "lost season". There are no guarantees, and you can't live for the future, because the future is completely uncertain. You'll be incensed when the team loses and enraged and hyper-critical, just like always.

[GibbsFactor]

the nfl is not mlb or nba bro. pieces for the future only work if they end up contributing. i for one am not willing to sacrifice dignity, respectability, trustworthiness and pride for the chance of getting one guy that may possibly be a great player. maybe you are and maybe thats where we differ. i dont doubt your loyalty to the team or anything like that but to me football is a mans game and men dont take dives.

Dude, this team sacrificed dignity, respect and trustworthiness a LONG time ago.

Here's why the NFL isn't the same as those other leagues. Those other leagues could have a hot goalie or a hot forward, a hot PG or a hot Center, a hot pitcher or a hot hitter...

The NFL requires you to have the hot QB. One position. Yes. It does matter that much.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Good lord, that's not even the point ANYONE on this thread was making :doh:

Here's a tip for everyone to remember: when you start relying on straw men arguments to make your point, you've lost your point..

my point was losing if youre a ****ty team is not a big deal because it can reap big benefits, especially when that benefit is a player at the most important position and hes being touted as a cant miss guy. and the original post was about being wired to compete, and we'll all be mad if we do XYZ in the heat of the games. well im telling you right now this team looks so bad on paper at the moment that its just gonna turn into pure comedy, not anger. we'll all be laughing about the BECKONING in a few years and look back on this season as a joke.

I'm surprised (well, not really lol) that you're not seeing the point I was making: which is, claiming that tanking/losing/whatever a season was worth it in order to get John Wall will become irrelevant if the Wizards don't actually become a good team. If the Wizards never have a winning season over the next 10 years, will you still be claiming that it was worth the losses to draft him and that playing better and winning more games still would have left the team worse off?

Truly think about that before answering.

if youre gonna suck, you might as well suck big time. you think i wouldnt go back in time in 2009 for zorns last year and lose 3 more games to get sam bradford? you really think winning 3 more games that season helped us at all? built team morale? did anything? not at all. and spin that, you think the rams would have been content winning 2 more games and losing out on bradford? not a chance.

you think id have been happier had the nats won 3 more games and drafted dustin ackley than strasburg? no way.

so to your analogy with john wall, the wizards got a great player in john wall. a few more poor seasons with high draft picks and theyll build a nice nucleus for themselves. this stuff takes time. look at detroit. they ended up with stafford, johnson, and a bunch of other high draft picks, and theyre slowly building a good team. if luck is as good as hes being hyped to be, we can lose as much as we want this year. ill take one terrible season if it means were set for a decade. im sure colts fans are glad they won 3 games in 1997.

---------- Post added August-3rd-2011 at 11:23 AM ----------

the nfl is not mlb or nba bro. pieces for the future only work if they end up contributing. i for one am not willing to sacrifice dignity, respectability, trustworthiness and pride for the chance of getting one guy that may possibly be a great player. maybe you are and maybe thats where we differ. i dont doubt your loyalty to the team or anything like that but to me football is a mans game and men dont take dives.

lol, pieces for the future only work if they contribute in any sport.

and again ive said this before, we're not gonna need to purposely lose. we can try as hard as we want, we have john beck and rex grossman playing QB, those two will do just fine losing boatloads of games for us no matter how bad they want to win. all the fire in their hearts and guts and team spirit arent gonna make either of them win anymore games.

so if we finish the season 5-11 im gonna be pissed that we didnt just lose it all and get that #1 overall pick for a chance at a franchise changing player.

[KDawg]

Or, people may actually know this is a process. If we lose this year, its because our roster almost completely turned over. Be realistic. I'll be excited if we win. I'll be critical of the team (and giving praise as well) either way. But, to say I'd be mad if we lost games is wildly inaccurate. I'll be upset if we giveaway games. But if we lose due to our youth/rebuilding process, then fine.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

...So what if the next quarterback we draft turns out to be a bust?

then he busts, and we go in a different direction. but we wont know if hes a bust for at least 2-3 years, so that gives us a window to make other changes if necessary. in that 2-3 year window while we build around our QB id hope that we are getting better everywhere so if that QB does bust, we still have a good enough team around him that we can compete (ala the vikings).

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Players on losing teams with a change in the front office and coaching staff absolutely NEED to see that the program they are being asked to dedicate themselves and a good part of their careers to WILL lead to wins. This isn't a philosophy class where multiple concepts are debated and considered...these guys need to actually experience true on-the-field benefits of doing thing the coach's way...of putting in the extra work before and after practice...of knowing that things are on the right track because they are seeing positive results.

And there is no better way of achieving this than by winning as often as possible.

A high draft pick should be seen as a consolation prize...not a goal.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Or, people may actually know this is a process. If we lose this year, its because our roster almost completely turned over. Be realistic. I'll be excited if we win. I'll be critical of the team (and giving praise as well) either way. But, to say I'd be mad if we lost games is wildly inaccurate. I'll be upset if we giveaway games. But if we lose due to our youth/rebuilding process, then fine.

a****ingmen

[KCClybun]

Or, people may actually know this is a process. If we lose this year, its because our roster almost completely turned over. Be realistic. I'll be excited if we win. I'll be critical of the team (and giving praise as well) either way. But, to say I'd be mad if we lost games is wildly inaccurate. I'll be upset if we giveaway games. But if we lose due to our youth/rebuilding process, then fine.

How can you determine what's "giving away" a game and what's a lose due to our rebuilding process though?

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Players on losing teams with a change in the front office and coaching staff absolutely NEED to see that the program they are being asked to dedicate themselves and a good part of their careers to WILL lead to wins. This isn't a philosophy class where multiple concepts are debated and considered...these guys need to actually experience true on-the-field benefits of doing thing the coach's way...of putting in the extra work before and after practice...of knowing that things are on the right track because they are seeing positive results.

And there is no better way of achieving this than by winning as often as possible.

A high draft pick should be seen as a consolation prize...not a goal.

any player with a brain knows we arent winning dick with rex grossman or john beck, or even competing against legit teams. if we drafted players stupid enough to think otherwise then im more worried than i thought lol!

[onedrop]

I hate to break it to you, but this franchise hasn't been/had any of those things for a long time now.

not having those things because you arent good is one thing. purposely and obviously laying them down is another entirely. weve lived through the team being horrible, i wont live through a Redskins team that lays down on purpose merely to draft a guy that could be great or ryan leaf. i dont respect soccer because of all the diving. i dont respect boxers that dive and ill be damned if ill respect my favorite football team if it dives.

would Monk, DG, Riggo, Joe T, Grimm, Jacoby, Sammy, Sonny, Gibbs, Wilbur, or Sean Taylor agree to take a dive? hell no, because they are men not cowards. the question in itself is ridiculous and i cannot believe some advocate such a shameful act.

[KDawg]

How can you determine what's "giving away" a game and what's a lose due to our rebuilding process though?

If we're up by 42 points and lose, we gave it away.

If we call timeouts back to back, we gave it away.

If we miss a 15 yard field goal, we gave it away.

Etc.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

not having those things because you arent good is one thing. purposely and obviously laying them down is another entirely. weve lived through the team being horrible, i wont live through a Redskins team that lays down on purpose merely to draft a guy that could be great or ryan leaf. i dont respect soccer because of all the diving. i dont respect boxers that dive and ill be damned if ill respect my favorite football team if it dives.

would Monk, DG, Riggo, Joe T, Grimm, Jacoby, Sammy, Sonny, Gibbs, Wilbur, or Sean Taylor agree to take a dive? hell no, because they are men not cowards. the question in itself is ridiculous and i cannot believe some advocate such a shameful act.

were not gonna dive on purpose dude, that thought is irrelevant cause itll never happen ever. but we can be that bad because of the team we're fielding, and right now its two terrible QBs, a bunch of rookies, and an improved defense on paper. winning 2/3 games is not out of the question

[KCClybun]

then he busts, and we go in a different direction. but we wont know if hes a bust for at least 2-3 years, so that gives us a window to make other changes if necessary. in that 2-3 year window while we build around our QB id hope that we are getting better everywhere so if that QB does bust, we still have a good enough team around him that we can compete (ala the vikings).

Oh, okay. So the plan is to draft a quarterback in 2012, and if he busts out in two or three or so years, in 2015 we can just draft another guy.

Hasn't the point around here been that we can't[/] compete without a quarterback? And now we're getting into the what if scenario that if the franchise quarterback of the future turns out to not be effective, then that's okay, we;ll just go get another guy? Because more losing won't begit more disgruntled players who don't want to play here, another coaching change which will disrupt continuity, and won't see us wasting a first round draft pick on a quarterback.

There are flaws in the suck for a quarterback argument...