Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Lombardi.I will reveal to you, as a bird, returning to his nest, a truth that is universal and accurate in all cases. Winning is better than losing. There is ZERO merit to TRYING to suck. There's zero merit to hoping we had a worse coach so we could lose more. We may be limited in our wins because of our personnel at QB or elsewhere, but, winning more is better than losing more. And it's not close. I actually agree with this. I'm never in the "Tank the season" camp - like SHF who might hire someone to shoot John Beck in the foot if he starts to play well. However, I do think that the worst place to be in most pro leagues is mediocre. Shanahan and Allen are too competent to have a Zorn-Vinny-ish debacle. So, they aren't going to have those game-breaker type players just fall to them. Shanahan got way too over-eager last year and shot his wad on the McNabb deal. If they had two straight off-seasons like this one - get rid of some older players, clear out Haynesworth, sign safe FAs, etc....we might actually be a threat right now. Even without a QB. Unless Beck turns out to be a star, last off-season is going to be the one that really cooked the Shanahan-Allen experience, I fear. They took a bad situation and somehow made it worse before doing the right things this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 I fear Shanahan right now. Because he is too good a coach to simply go 2-14 this year. I think he has just enough talent to pull 6 or - god forbid - 7 wins out of this team. Winning 7 game with John Beck would be a disaster of Biblical proportions for this team. This is the exact problem we had during Gibbs' second go-around. It's really tough to bottom out with a good coach. In reality' date=' this team needed one more year of Zorn at the helm. I'm actually depressed by the signings so far. They are showing a remarkable level of competency. I certainly don't think the roster is talented enough to sniff the playoffs. But it won't embarrass itself, I fear.[/quote'] I am with you on this. 7 wins with John Beck would break me. I am not sure how I would handle next offseason, when we blew a chance to get a generational QB and set this franchise up for a very long run Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gutlead74 Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 It's down to buf, SF, and Washington for QBs in next years draft maybe Oakland with an outside chance of Detroit or Denver being in the market. There are some pretty good QBs coming out next year (if they all declare). We aren't one great QB away from a championship and we've been stock piling picks, so I'm not saying tank but I'm saying getting into position. My thoughts might not be well laid out (in the er on meds ) but I'm sure y'all get the basic premise. ---------- Post added July-29th-2011 at 04:30 PM ---------- Oh ya Miami as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 It's down to buf, SF, and Washington for QBs in next years draft maybe Oakland with an outside chance of Detroit or Denver being in the market. There are some pretty good QBs coming out next year (if they all declare). We aren't one great QB away from a championship and we've been stock piling picks, so I'm not saying tank but I'm saying getting into position. My thoughts might not be well laid out (in the er on meds ) but I'm sure y'all get the basic premise. As of now I think you would have Buffalo, Washington, Miami (unless they acquire Orton) and Seattle. I no longer think this team is devoid of talent like I did 48 hours ago, which means we may just end up "mediocre" and staying in the 5-6 to 8-9 win range for the foreseeable future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 I laughed, we've seen you be negative before, and this isn't it. You can scribe invective in flesh with shards of glass when you want to, this was rather mild. What I wonder is, how good do we need Beck to be? He doesn't need to morph into HoF status, he doesn't need to win the SB, what he needs to do is show up and do a reasonably competent job. This is a team in transition, and learning how to keep playing hard when you are not rolling over the competition is valuable too. Learning the reality of 4-6 and you still have to do it again for a month and a half is valuable. Getting some of that ephemeral "chemistry" cooking in the locker room and seeing a rook fighting for an extra yard in a losing effort is valuable. There are things that Beck can contribute to here beyond the stark W/L result of the season. I like that I see him amped up and ready to go, that he's buggin' the coaches to do more, learn more, try more, to the point of distraction. There's something to be said for ambition and spirit and 'tude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illone Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 6-7 wins and you will see more of the same. The thing you hope for is that Beck is a super stud like he was in college and we win it all this year, or at least win the division, or he sucks buttholes and we tank the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21MadFan Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 I still don't understand how people think we are gonna be able to get Andrew Luck. There is always a 2-14, or 3-13 team. I don't see how we are worse than the Bills, or even the Dolphins at this point. We were awful last year and only went 6-10. I know people keep talking about trading to the number 1 spot but more than likely the team that has it needs a QB too and I'm damn sure they are not gonna trade out of the spot and lose the chance at a franchise QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfan Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 About John Beck: I keep reading opinions that he's either going to boom or bust. I don't know how the mediocre option has been eliminated from his future possibilities. The worst result would be mediocre. Mike has to give Beck strong preference to win the job if it's a competition with Rex because Rex has proven his mediocrity. So, Rex would have to be clearly better to win the job. If John Beck delivers an above average performance, the Skins would plug their most important gap at a rock-bottom price. That would be a huge break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 I don't think there is any chance that Beck is a boom. I think the options are bust/mediocrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoEd Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Ahh, Art my friend, welcome back. I saw you started this thread and got giddy like a little school girl. But wait! Don't come back in here to ES and make sense, we'll have none of that around here. Excellent post Art, we've greatly missed your wordsmithing and common sense, don't be a stranger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HapHaszard Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Welcome Back Art, its good to see your articles in here again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illone Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 I don't think there is any chance that Beck is a boom.I think the options are bust/mediocrity. Oh there is definitely a chance he could boom. It's doubtful he would do that this year, but he has potential. Have you seen him play before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HapHaszard Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 I don't think there is any chance that Beck is a boom.I think the options are bust/mediocrity. What information are you basing your opinion on? I'm sure you've been to many of the practices during the season which is where the coaching staff has come up with their evaluation of him. Any other information? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Oh there is definitely a chance he could boom. It's doubtful he would do that this year, but he has potential. Have you seen him play before? Of course not. No one has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NattyBo Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 What information are you basing your opinion on? I'm sure you've been to many of the practices during the season which is where the coaching staff has come up with their evaluation of him. Any other information? G Att Comp Pct Att/G Yds Avg Yds/G TD TD% Int Int% Lng 20+ 40+ Sck SckY Rate 5 107 60 56.1 21.4 559 5.2 111.8 1 0.9 3 2.8 22 8 0 10 69 62.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 What information are you basing your opinion on? I'm sure you've been to many of the practices during the season which is where the coaching staff has come up with their evaluation of him. Any other information? I'm basing that on the fact that he has three more NFL apperances than he does NFL cuts. There are 20 good QBs in the NFL at the moment. I find it very difficult to imagine that John Beck has a chance to be great considering he has been sitting out there for five years...like a couch at the end of a driveway...and no one has taken him. Remember when Spurrier was going to make Wuerffel a star? Because no one had given him a "chance?" The NFL screws a lot of things up, but it usually finds the QBs who can play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gutlead74 Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 I did forget about Seattle. My point is a ton of bad teams have recently invested heavily in QBs. There is a probable bumper crop next year so why not us. We have more picks than normal and it seems we have a good amount of cap room. Also we attempted to address WR this year, there isn't much point to bringing in a young QB w no viable targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoEd Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 As for Beck, come on, Miami? Seriously? They had arguably one of the worst teams in history, the fact he survived with his life is a testament to his testicular fortitude. Then, Beck goes to a team in Baltimore that was set at the QB position, but Ozzie is touted as being one of the best judges of talent in the entire NFL, what did he see in Beck? We traded for him, albeit cheap, he wasn't released. His college coach said Beck is very methodical in his approach to the game, slow to excel because of his desire to be perfect. He's a hard worker and "super smart". Now, Shanahan has made a career out of being an offensive genius, why doubt his assesment of our QB situation? I say give the dude a chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NattyBo Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 As for Beck, come on, Miami? Seriously? They had arguably one of the worst teams in history, the fact he survived with his life is a testament to his testicular fortitude. Then, Beck goes to a team in Baltimore that was set at the QB position, but Ozzie is touted as being one of the best judges of talent in the entire NFL, what did he see in Beck? We traded for him, albeit cheap, he wasn't released. His college coach said Beck is very methodical in his approach to the game, slow to excel because of his desire to be perfect. He's a hard worker and "super smart". Now, Shanahan has made a career out of being an offensive genius, why doubt his assesment of our QB situation? I say give the dude a chance? Beck went to Baltimore because Cam Cameron drafted him. It had nothing to do with Ozzie. His career so far is 5 starts for an admittedly terrible team, where he didn't exactly change things around. He's been a career 3rd stringer since, and even the guy who drafted him ended up trading him to us for a guy that they ended up cutting like a week later. Also, why doubt Shanahan's judgement of our QB situation? Are you serious? Does a 2nd and a 3rd for Donovan McNabb not even ring a bell? I like Shanahan, but he's far from infallible. I'll gladly, GLADLY eat crow if Beck turns out to be good or hell, even serviceable, but personally, I think you all should be preparing for a long, frustrating season. Frankly, not sure if my liver will be able to handle it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoEd Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Double post, sorry.... So Ozzie had no say so in the Beck signing? Love how people no the inner workings of NFL FO's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brettstr Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 They say a little bit of Art died the day Karl Swanson left.They say that every now and then' date=' he wanders to his porch, looks to the horizon, whispers "Andyman" and says not another word for hours. They say a lot of things, they do.[/quote'] To lombardi and Art, to quote from Shawshank was Classic and completely awesome. The bridge was epic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hail2skins Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Presuming we are in the market for a QB coming out of the 2012 draft, does anyone know which OB(s) Shanny likes out of the crop. Obviously Luck seems to be high on everyone's list but which of the others do you think Mike will go after? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hail2skins Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Which QB (other than Luck) coming out in 2012 have people heard that Shanny likes the most? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoEd Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Well NattyBo, aren't you just full of hope? Well, I for one choose to have hope that he's more like Brees and Warner, but I'm an optimist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdsknbill Posted July 29, 2011 Share Posted July 29, 2011 Welcome Back Art, its good to see your articles in here again. Same here, Even if it IS the same old nonsensical BS that comes spewing from your fingers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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