CNN: Giant blast hits government buildings in Oslo, Norway; shooter fires at youth camp

[oisn1]

Some of you can't pass up even a tragedy to bash your political rivals.. simply amazing.

Honestly speaking I haven't really seen any of that in this thread. Most people are commenting on the fact that he is espousing an extreme right-wing view that is popular among the fringe of the US. He seems to follow the teachings and beliefs of people like the Unabomber and Pam Geller. In fact I tend to agree that sites like Jihad Watch and all the other islamophobic sites helped lead him towards these actions. They breed hate and fear of scary Muslims who are trying to turn Europe and the US into some Islamic caliphate. He also was part of the English Defense League which is essentially a thinly veiled Aryan movement in Britain. Hell, the EDL vandalized a mosque in "retaliation" for this man's killings. Free Republic is trying to justify his actions, because kids had the audacity to be liberal and support Palestine, but they are idiots. So if you consider yourself a part of those groups, then yeah we're bashing you.

I haven't seen anything about how this is the fault of all conservatives. Outside of the usual NavyDave idiocy and some religion trolling, I don't see anybody making any blanket statements. Even in the general public discourse, I don't see it. In fact, I'd say that the media has been very quick to distance itself from blaming all conservatives, unlike when a Islam story comes up and we get the usual "nuke them all from orbit" refrain.

[Jumbo]

Isn't that the truth. No specific party, religion or race has a primary stake in having a very few crazy, (potentially suicidal) people within their ranks. It's too bad we so quickly use the actions of a single person to be representative of the group in its entirety.

Worth repeating. I'll add it is very helpful to society at large when members of any group rightfully or wrongly held attached to such individuals' actions make clear, strongly expressed, public repudiation of such thinking, let alone such heinous deeds.

[jpyaks3]

This is what is really disturbing, people like Bawer using this attack as a platform to attack Muslim immigrants and Muslims in general.

http://professional.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903999904576465801154130960.html?mg=reno-secaucus-wsj

During the hours when I thought that Oslo had been attacked by jihadists, I wept for the city that has been my home for many years. And I hoped Norwegian leaders would respond to this act of violence by taking a more responsible approach to the problems they face in connection with Islam. When it emerged that these acts of terror were the work of a native Norwegian who thought he was striking a blow against jihadism and its enablers, it was immediately clear to me that his violence will deal a heavy blow to an urgent cause.

Norway, like the rest of Europe, is in serious trouble. Millions of European Muslims live in rigidly patriarchal families in rapidly growing enclaves where women are second-class citizens, and where non-Muslims dare not venture. Surveys show that an unsettling percentage of Muslims in Europe reject Western values, despise the countries they live in, support the execution of homosexuals, and want to replace democracy with Shariah law. (According to a poll conducted by the Telegraph, 40% of British Muslims want Shariah implemented in predominantly Muslim parts of the United Kingdom.)

Muslim gay-bashing is driving gays out of Amsterdam. Muslim Jew-bashing is driving Jews out of Gothenburg, Sweden. And let's not forget about the shameful trials of politician Geert Wilders in the Netherlands and historian Lars Hedegaard in Denmark, which demonstrate how the fear of Muslim wrath is squelching the freedom of speech of those who dare to criticize Islam.

There is reason to be deeply concerned about all these things, and to want to see them addressed forcefully by government leaders who care about the preservation of individual liberty and human rights. But this cause has been seriously damaged by Anders Behring Breivik.

In Norway, to speak negatively about any aspect of the Muslim faith has always been a touchy matter, inviting charges of "Islamophobia" and racism. It will, I fear, be a great deal more difficult to broach these issues now that this murderous madman has become the poster boy for the criticism of Islam.

Mr. Bawer is a literary critic who lives in Oslo. He is the author, most recently, of "Surrender: Appeasing Islam, Sacrificing Freedom" (Doubleday, 2009).

[Predicto]

This is what is really disturbing, people like Bawer using this attack as a platform to attack Muslim immigrants and Muslims in general.

http://professional.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903999904576465801154130960.html?mg=reno-secaucus-wsj

During the hours when I thought that Oslo had been attacked by jihadists, I wept for the city that has been my home for many years. And I hoped Norwegian leaders would respond to this act of violence by taking a more responsible approach to the problems they face in connection with Islam. When it emerged that these acts of terror were the work of a native Norwegian who thought he was striking a blow against jihadism and its enablers, it was immediately clear to me that his violence will deal a heavy blow to an urgent cause.

).

This is a truly disgusting thing to write.

Translation: "When I thought that evil Muslims did this deed, I wept, knowing that Islam is violent and must be stomped out.

When it turned out to be done by a conservative who reads my writing and thinks just like me, I was even sadder, because people now will unfairly think that conservatives can be violent, and will lose track of the truth that Islam is violent and must be stomped out."

[Koala]

This is what is really disturbing, people like Bawer using this attack as a platform to attack Muslim immigrants and Muslims in general.

http://professional.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903999904576465801154130960.html?mg=reno-secaucus-wsj

During the hours when I thought that Oslo had been attacked by jihadists, I wept for the city that has been my home for many years. And I hoped Norwegian leaders would respond to this act of violence by taking a more responsible approach to the problems they face in connection with Islam. When it emerged that these acts of terror were the work of a native Norwegian who thought he was striking a blow against jihadism and its enablers, it was immediately clear to me that his violence will deal a heavy blow to an urgent cause.

Norway, like the rest of Europe, is in serious trouble. Millions of European Muslims live in rigidly patriarchal families in rapidly growing enclaves where women are second-class citizens, and where non-Muslims dare not venture. Surveys show that an unsettling percentage of Muslims in Europe reject Western values, despise the countries they live in, support the execution of homosexuals, and want to replace democracy with Shariah law. (According to a poll conducted by the Telegraph, 40% of British Muslims want Shariah implemented in predominantly Muslim parts of the United Kingdom.)

Muslim gay-bashing is driving gays out of Amsterdam. Muslim Jew-bashing is driving Jews out of Gothenburg, Sweden. And let's not forget about the shameful trials of politician Geert Wilders in the Netherlands and historian Lars Hedegaard in Denmark, which demonstrate how the fear of Muslim wrath is squelching the freedom of speech of those who dare to criticize Islam.

There is reason to be deeply concerned about all these things, and to want to see them addressed forcefully by government leaders who care about the preservation of individual liberty and human rights. But this cause has been seriously damaged by Anders Behring Breivik.

In Norway, to speak negatively about any aspect of the Muslim faith has always been a touchy matter, inviting charges of "Islamophobia" and racism. It will, I fear, be a great deal more difficult to broach these issues now that this murderous madman has become the poster boy for the criticism of Islam.

Mr. Bawer is a literary critic who lives in Oslo. He is the author, most recently, of "Surrender: Appeasing Islam, Sacrificing Freedom" (Doubleday, 2009).

The title of that article should be, "I agree with the terrorist".

[twa]

More like 'the terrorist has hurt the cause he espoused'

Rights of women,gays,jew and free speech will suffer because of a murderer,just as rights and freedom suffer from other murdering scum in Islamic countries.

[Predicto]

More like 'the terrorist has hurt the cause he espoused'

Rights of women,gays,jew and free speech will suffer because of a murderer,just as rights and freedom suffer from other murdering scum in Islamic countries.

Mr. Bawer's own exaggerated rantings are the red meat that this terrorist fed off for the past 10 years, and justified his evil actions in his own mind.

I don't expect Bawer to acknowledge it, but I expect most Tailgate posters to recognize it easily.

[twa]

Justified in his own mind is key

is suppressing opinion next?

[Predicto]

Justified in his own mind is key

is suppressing opinion next?

What are you talking about?

Who is suppressing anyone's opinion?

Is it unfair to point out that people who scream about the Muslim menace and joke about nuking the entire Middle East now have a new champion who has acted on their incendiary words?

[Koala]

More like 'the terrorist has hurt the cause he espoused'

Rights of women,gays,jew and free speech will suffer because of a murderer,just as rights and freedom suffer from other murdering scum in Islamic countries.

1) 100 people are dead. And you dont think its disgusting that this guy's primary worry is the negative consequences on his xenophobic ideology? Youre okay with this guy pointing out the legitimacy the terrorists grievances, before all the victims bodies have even been buried? Why no demands that this guy either clearly condemns the terrorism, or else be considered a terrorist sympathizer? Or is that only the rules for muslims ;-)

2) Why is that with people like this, everything somehow comes back to the imminent muslim takeover of the world.

A muslim attacks? Step towards worldwide sharia law.

Muslims are attacked? Sympathy for them will mean another step towards worldwide sharia .

Some muslim-hating guy attacks non-muslims? Still somehow another step towards sharia law.

A butterfly farts in the wind? A huuge step towards Sharia law!

[twa]

By killing his own people?....somewhere you are missing something relevant

careful or your excesses will send someone out to kill

Koala....since I'm currently supporting blood and treasure to both protect and install Muslim govts ,my patience with BS is kinda low .

Kindly point out where the writer excused the murderer,or even his choice of targets?

by a quick reading he calls him a murderer and insane and closes calling him a murderous madman

is that not condemning his acts enough?

[Destino]

Careful with arguing that violence by one invalidates a political position by many. There are terrorist groups tied to environmentalists and pro life groups. I'd argue that inflammatory rhetoric makes it harder to distinguish the rational from the violent.

[twa]

Actually thats pretty easy Des,the violent espouse violence and act on it.

Just what constitutes inflammatory rhetoric?....wheres the line

[Bang]

Actually thats pretty easy Des,the violent espouse violence and act on it.

Just what constitutes inflammatory rhetoric?....wheres the line

How about we start by not blaming every single problem on planet earth on one segment of people, and by telling the faithful every single day that the root of all their problems are these people and their belief?

Why does common sense need to be spelled out? Why do we have to listen to the idiots who would set ridiculous parameters for it's use?

No wonder we're paralyzed,, we refuse to think beyond thinking the worst.

~Bang

[twa]

That was a example?

[Bang]

http://www.gaypatriot.net/2011/06/13/the-absurdity-of-the-legalize-gay-slogan/

XHkxt7x7HIA

Remember that? :yes:

So, about you and common sense...

~Bang

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

Every problem on Earth, according to the Right, can be blamed on liberals, and that is why they must be defeated. You, yourself, espouse this view. The Norwegian shooter took your own philosophies to the next logical conclusion, and least to him -- kill liberals, kill leftists. Kill the traitors and the root cause of the world's ills.

That's my question: if Muslim's are invaders, hellbent on destroying us, our way of life and our country, and liberals are actively aiding and abetting them (one example among many), what other logical conclusions can there be? If you can't completely own the government, what then do you do?

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I'm laughing at the idea that this guy's actions were the result of what he's read lol...

Our minds are not so fragile that our perspectives on the world can be distorted to a delusional and violent degree merely by reading the wrong publications.

To paraphrase Chris Rock, "What happened to crazy?" ...This guy would have acted out in a violent manner regardless of what he had read or not read...it's inner demons that cause this type of action by a lone individual, not "hateful rhetoric".

---------- Post added July-25th-2011 at 06:18 PM ----------

IOmb3Rp1pcU

[Koala]

By killing his own people?....somewhere you are missing something relevant

careful or your excesses will send someone out to kill

Koala....since I'm currently supporting blood and treasure to both protect and install Muslim govts ,my patience with BS is kinda low .

Kindly point out where the writer excused the murderer,or even his choice of targets?

by a quick reading he calls him a murderer and insane and closes calling him a murderous madman

is that not condemning his acts enough?

1) And because Im really sick of people doing backflips to pump more steorotypes and hatred against muslims into an already-satured mainstream, my patience is probably lower than yours. But Ill listen to your viewpoint anyways, you have a fear of Islam but you also have some limits to what you're willing to say. Self-imposed limits, I assume, so I dont understand your viewpoint that freedom to speak about Islam is in danger of being limited.

2) I just spent 2 hours on a washingtonpost discussion forum. Pretty mainstream, I think. 75% of the comments were of the variety, "Islam should be eliminated before its too late,", or "Why dont just nuke those cavemen," or some other incitement to violence against muslims. So youll have to excuse me if I find it hard to believe that there isnt enough discussion about islam out there, or that there isnt enough freedom to speak against muslims. What exactly is that you want to say that you are being prevented from? People already insult islams prophet, incite violence against muslims, and make comments so racist, Hitler would blush -- WHERE IS THE CENSORSHIP that youve dreamed up in your mind.

3) I dont recall the people of Afghanistan or Iraq asking us, en masse (like Libya), to pour our blood and treasure into their countries. Some of them want us there, some of them never did and never will. Either way, WE made THE CHOICE to do it, for our own interests, so drop the "they should be grateful" routine

[twa]

Remember that? :yes:

So, about you and common sense...

~Bang

Vaguely, what's the connection?

[Bang]

Vaguely, what's the connection?

You posted that video in the Michelle Bachmann thread a few weeks ago when you were insinuating that the problem with gays was more than what they do in the bedroom..

the connection is..

When you say "where is the line" of what is incendiary or overly agressive rhetoric, this is a valid question. However, when the right hollers foul over the evil glitter throwing gay activist while accepting no responsibility that their rhetoric has been directly attributed as an influence by this guy... I think we begin to see where common sense should prevail.

When the glitter thrower "attacked" Newt at a book signing by tossing a handful of glitter on him Hannity made a stink over "this is what you get when the left doesn't get it's way"... and behaved as if an act of violence had occured... that the glitter thrower stepped over the line. Fair enough...

but, if that is to be the narrative, then the fair thing to say is that this attack is what you get when you employ hyper agresssive propaganda that demonizes a group and literally blames them for EVERY problem.

History shows what happens when people believe that kind of ****. They do things like this... and worse.

~Bang

[twa]

1) And because Im really sick of people doing backflips to pump more steorotypes and hatred against muslims into an already-satured mainstream, my patience is probably lower than yours. But Ill listen to your viewpoint anyways, you have a fear of Islam but you also have some limits to what you're willing to say. Self-imposed limits, I assume, so I dont understand your viewpoint that freedom to speak about Islam is in danger of being limited.

2) I just spent 2 hours on a washingtonpost discussion forum. Pretty mainstream, I think. 75% of the comments were of the variety, "Islam should be eliminated before its too late,", or "Why dont just nuke those cavemen," or some other incitement to violence against muslims. So youll have to excuse me if I find it hard to believe that there isnt enough discussion about islam out there, or that there isnt enough freedom to speak against muslims. What exactly is that you want to say that you are being prevented from? People already insult islams prophet, incite violence against muslims, and make comments so racist, Hitler would blush -- WHERE IS THE CENSORSHIP that youve dreamed up in your mind.

3) I dont recall the people of Afghanistan or Iraq asking us, en masse (like Libya), to pour our blood and treasure into their countries. Some of them want us there, some of them never did and never will. Either way, WE made THE CHOICE to do it, for our own interests, so drop the "they should be grateful" routine

1) I have a fear of Islam?...news to me,and probably many of my friends....I do fear fundamentalists of all stripes,including my own faith

2) Poor thing...better toughen up

3) I recall them inviting us by their actions.(funny there are many in Libya fighting us,musta been the wrong mass).....we bend over backwards to accommodate and enable Islam...so drop the persecuted me routine

now that we just flung more BS :pfft:...... ya want to address whether the writer excused the murderers actions or encouraged them?

[jpyaks3]

My question is would everyone excuse a Muslim imam using the 9/11 attacks to launch into an anti-American tirade literally days after the attack? Would that be acceptable? Because that is basically what guys like the wsj guy or the jerusalem post guy or plenty of other people are doing, barely apologizing for the act but immediately after saying but he was right....

[Duckus]

well, I guess now that it turns out the guy wasn't a muslim we can't talk about political motivations.

Exactly how I feel reading this thread.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

You posted that video in the Michelle Bachmann thread a few weeks ago when you were insinuating that the problem with gays was more than what they do in the bedroom..

the connection is..

When you say "where is the line" of what is incendiary or overly agressive rhetoric, this is a valid question. However, when the right hollers foul over the evil glitter throwing gay activist while accepting no responsibility that their rhetoric has been directly attributed as an influence by this guy... I think we begin to see where common sense should prevail.

When the glitter thrower "attacked" Newt at a book signing by tossing a handful of glitter on him Hannity made a stink over "this is what you get when the left doesn't get it's way"... and behaved as if an act of violence had occured... that the glitter thrower stepped over the line. Fair enough...

but, if that is to be the narrative, then the fair thing to say is that this attack is what you get when you employ hyper agresssive propaganda that demonizes a group and literally blames them for EVERY problem.

Not fair at all. The reality is that what leads to a massacre like the one that just occurred is lightyears different than what leads to someone throwing glitter. It's not comparing apples to oranges, it's comparing apples to nuclear subs lol...

"Hateful" rhetoric can lead someone to vote a certain way...It can lead to people protesting...it can lead to diatribes on the interwebz.

The mindless slaughter of hundreds of innocents by a lone individual will NEVER be due to rhetoric. Ever.

History shows what happens when people believe that kind of ****. They do things like this... and worse.

~Bang

This is the type of thinking that gets middle-America wanting books and records banned when two emotionally troubled kids kill themselves in the woods and a Judas Priest CD is found in one of the kid's stereo.