NFL.com:Redskins prepared to make run on big free agents after lockout

[moondog]

I feel like you guys are arguing over something that's irrelevant as of right now. I see no reason on the field to believe Moss has lost much if any speed and especially not his quickness. While there stands a reason to believe he will eventually with age, one of my biggest points is he hasn't shown any signs of aging and in fact has shown more evidence that he is the same receiver he's always been. We simply haven't had an offense to complement him. I think he's shown the durability to be similar to guys like Terrell Owens and London Fletcher in that he's not slowing down. You wonder when that wall will hit him but there have been zero signs so far (possibly this year for Owens but keep in mind he's 37).

Santana still has speed to burn and consistently gets behind defenders - he is not simply a possession receiver. We have not had a guy that can get him the ball if they even see him down the field. And as far as taking hits over the middle, when have you EVER truly seen Santana take a scary shot? Almost never. Why? Because he's tiny. That is one positive aspect of being so small is that you are a small target. His knees and ribs are much more protected and Santana is a pretty bulky guy. I'm almost positive he has never had a hit-induced injury in his career - the only thing he's ever had is hamstring issues and those haven't been a problem in a while.

There seems to be this stereotype for our own players that they automatically are worse or less productive as they age. While the majority of players do decline after 30, some do not. I urge you guys to simply look at his play on the field, much like Fletcher's, and not his age. Yes, it stands to reason he will eventually decline but as of yet, he has not. Everyone else we have is extremely young with the exception of Armstrong and he has no wear and tear on him. So we have the long term future in place most likely but Santana's still a beast now and I see plenty of reason to believe he will continue to be one of the best for the next 3-4 years and no reason why he won't. If Santana played for any other team in the league, everyone on this board would have a higher opinion or value on him and would covet him. Maybe not in the sense of signing him this year if he wasn't already in our system due to most posters' fear of veterans, but most of this board would hold him in higher regard.

The majority of this board consistently talks highly of players on other teams but neglects a guy like Moss. Sidney Rice was a beast one year so everyone wants him. Put Moss on that 09 team with Brett friggen Favre and that offense and he puts up similar numbers, albeit in a different fashion. Value what we have guys. If Moss leaves, he will be extremely successful somewhere else and we'll miss him - just like Ryan Clark and Antonio Pierce.

[ballin86]

It's from JLC...nothing to see here...move along

[Stew]

I Value what we have guys. If Moss leaves, he will be extremely successful somewhere else and we'll miss him - just like Ryan Clark and Antonio Pierce.

We don't have Moss. he is a free agent, not on our team at teh current time.

[moondog]

We don't have Moss. he is a free agent, not on our team at teh current time.

Petty comment that has almost nothing to do with the argument my man. Teams, in all likelihood, will have 3 days to re-sign their own free agents before FA begins. You know as well as I do he is ours to lose. He wants to be here and would likely sign before FA starts if we make a reasonable offer. Ryan Clark and Pierce were both free agents too. But they were OUR guys and we let them walk. Moss is our guy, I don't care what is "technically" correct. He's ours to lose and the only way he leaves is if we let him and you know it.

[Arsenic]

Hearing talk, on 106.7, of decline in Redskins popularity, I'm starting to understand why we might make a FA splash this upcoming season. This organization is currently sitting on a fine line, it seems. Perhaps one more bad season will lose the Shanahan/Allen optimists & fence sitters?

Redskins pride is, arguably, at an all-time low.

A good season would, undoubtedly, wake up this fan-base a bit; create some warranted optimism. However, another bad showing could lead to "I told you things remain the same & I'm done with this" mentality..

Just a consideration... I really feel like, although timed horribly, this season is somewhat of a make-or-break for the new FO & one of great importance when it comes to filling seats & selling season tickets in the future.

Looking back to last season, a few bounces of the ball could have had us sitting on a 10-win season. It's a stretch, i know, but a big FA splash would signal, to me, that Shanahan/Allen truly believe this team can win ball games.. I think more of us would agree, if only the QB situation were settled.

Just thinking aloud :cool:

Regardless, Hail to the Redskins :point2sky

[WSHRedskins3ATLBraves3]

I undestand what you're saying Arsenic, but that is exactly the kind of thinking that has us in this situation year after year. Singing a bunch of free agents to try to win ten games will set us back years.

And I guarantee you that if we have a rough 1-3 years, and then begin to rise with a young, talented roster the fans will be ecstatic. Instant gratification is not what we need right now. Build a solid core, and we will be contenders for years to come.

[Botched]

I'm a huge Moss fan. He's been my favorite Redskin for 6 years now. Throughout most of those years I feel like we wasted his talents with shoddy QB play and questionable offensive strategy. He has always been a reliable, professional dude and never blames anybody but himself when things go wrong. I wish we had more players like 89, and I hope he retires a Redskin.

But last season it was obvious to me that Moss is not as quick as he used to be. He was no longer able to elude tacklers after the catch and make a big gain. The YAC was just not there. When he can get behind defenders and then make a catch, he's still fast enough to get away, but he doesn't have that quickness that used to make him so dangerous both as a receiver and a punt returner. I don't believe he had a score from outside of 25 yards last year, probably for the first time in his career. His catch and yardage totals were great, but the big plays were lacking. I agree with what the Tris said, he turned into a possession receiver.

We need one of our young guys, or maybe AA, to step up and be the guy who's gonna get us those 60 yard scores that Santana used to get us. IMO, the last thing we need right now is a free agent receiver.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

.

But last season it was obvious to me that Moss is not as quick as he used to be. He was no longer able to elude tacklers after the catch and make a big gain. The YAC was just not there.

I believe Santana led the league in YAC last season. :2cents:

[pjfootballer]

Hearing talk, on 106.7, of decline in Redskins popularity, I'm starting to understand why we might make a FA splash this upcoming season. This organization is currently sitting on a fine line, it seems. Perhaps one more bad season will lose the Shanahan/Allen optimists & fence sitters?

Redskins pride is, arguably, at an all-time low.

A good season would, undoubtedly, wake up this fan-base a bit; create some warranted optimism. However, another bad showing could lead to "I told you things remain the same & I'm done with this" mentality..

Just a consideration... I really feel like, although timed horribly, this season is somewhat of a make-or-break for the new FO & one of great importance when it comes to filling seats & selling season tickets in the future.

Looking back to last season, a few bounces of the ball could have had us sitting on a 10-win season. It's a stretch, i know, but a big FA splash would signal, to me, that Shanahan/Allen truly believe this team can win ball games.. I think more of us would agree, if only the QB situation were settled.

Just thinking aloud :cool:

Regardless, Hail to the Redskins :point2sky

I wouldn't take too much of talk sports radio. There is no football and all they are doing is trying to stir the pot. Most fans are smarter than that. Most of us know we may have to get worse before we get better. They radio talking heads have no proof that Shanahan or Allen is on any hot seat. They are just saying things to get you to listen. Take anything thay say with a grain of salt.

[Botched]

I believe Santana led the league in YAC last season. :2cents:

I doubt he was first. Running backs usually top that list. I'm sure he ranks high though, when you catch 90+ passes, those 2 and 3 yard runs after catch will add up. He was a great possession receiver for us last year, he just wasn't breaking big gains.

[Hitman21ST]

I doubt he was first. Running backs usually top that list. I'm sure he ranks high though, when you catch 90+ passes, those 2 and 3 yard runs after catch will add up. He was a great possession receiver for us last year, he just wasn't breaking big gains.

You are correct sir.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/receiving/sort/receivingYardsAfterCatch

Moss ranked 7th in the NFL. Leading receiver, though.

[authentic]

I undestand what you're saying Arsenic, but that is exactly the kind of thinking that has us in this situation year after year. Singing a bunch of free agents to try to win ten games will set us back years.

And I guarantee you that if we have a rough 1-3 years, and then begin to rise with a young, talented roster the fans will be ecstatic. Instant gratification is not what we need right now. Build a solid core, and we will be contenders for years to come.

^This^.... We just cant be agressive in FA, just because. IMO, this year's draft was finally a step in the right direction.

[The Tris]

Instant gratification is not what we need right now.

Unfortunately, that's just what the majority of fans want right now.

[moondog]

I doubt he was first. Running backs usually top that list. I'm sure he ranks high though, when you catch 90+ passes, those 2 and 3 yard runs after catch will add up. He was a great possession receiver for us last year, he just wasn't breaking big gains.

He led the league in YAC for receivers. Botch, I think one of the big reasons why people don't see Moss as an elusive guy or someone that can flat out burn people is a difference in how he is used. Back in 2005 and a little in 2006 he was seeing a TON of screen passes. As in 1-2 per game on average. We had great pulling offensive linemen that could get out there and throw a block and Moss was great at hiding behind them and then bursting into daylight. He even said in an interview it was his favorite play. I just don't see us giving him many options in that scenario any more. I think if we threw him a screen pass every once in a while and had a quarterback who could actually hit him in stride downfield, Moss would prove to any doubters he's still got that speed/quickness.

[darrelgreenie]

Here's a good article on Moss:

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/05/17/2010-snap-breakdown-santana-moss/

If you subtract Moss from our passing offense it leaves some pretty big shoes to fill for an unproven WRs corps.

But, add our young WRs to the passing game we had last year it could become a dynamic unit.

Re-signing Moss or a WR w/ his skillset (Holmes) should be a no brainer for the direction this FO is going.

[Fetus]

please don't re-sign buchanon please!

re-sign carlos and get a good nickel corner who has the potential to be a number two, eric wright, in free agency

[texasthunder]

^This^.... We just cant be agressive in FA, just because. IMO, this year's draft was finally a step in the right direction.

As of now, they have a salary cap number of approximately $93.3 million. With the salary cap widely expected to be about $120 million, the Redskins will have $27.6 million in salary cap space to work with.

They have the ability to clear out more space if they want to; in fact, it seems likely that they will. Releasing or trading Donovan McNabb ($4.75 million savings) and Albert Haynesworth ($3.4 million) would bring them up to $34.8 million in cap space. More savings are available if the team releases such players as Maake Kemoeatu ($2.5 million).

Not all of the cap room will be available to spend on free agents. Some if it will be needed to sign the 12 players the Redskins drafted in April, some should be set aside to cover any injury needs that may arise during the year and the team almost certainly will look at contract extensions for key players like LaRon Landry and London Fletcher.

A new element in this CBA is the cash salary minimum. While the details are murky, it appears that teams will have to spend about 90 per cent of the salary cap maximum in cash each year starting this year. There always has been a cap minimum but teams could use accounting procedures like dead cap money and likely to be earned bonuses to get up to that minimum. Now, teams will actually have to stroke checks for 90 percent of the cap each year. If the cap does come in at $120 million, that would place the minimum at $108 million.

The Redskins right now are committed to paying approximately $73 million in salaries and bonuses this year. That includes $11.1 million to McNabb and $5.4 million to Haynesworth so that figure will decrease if those players are not on the final roster.

So, if the Redskins do part ways with those to players they will have to spend about $52 million this year, depending on the exact nature of the agreement

http://realredskins.com/2011/07/redskins-have-26-million-in-cap-space-can-add-more/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+RealRedskins+%28Rich+Tandler%27s+Real+Redskins%29&utm_content=Twitter

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

please don't re-sign buchanon please!

re-sign carlos and get a good nickel corner who has the potential to be a number two, eric wright, in free agency

You don't sign Wright to be your nickel. :2cents:

[HailGreen28]

Just want to get this off my chest. The Moss issue is where my own hypocrisy lies. Not the hypocrisy of most redskins fans saying we sucked with all the old FAs we had, then yelling we need tons of late-20's to mid-30's FAs. My hangup is I want to blow up this team, but can't argue for cutting guys like Moss.

I want us to start over. I want us to go completely young, trade off anybody who has value, if they almost certainly won't be able to contribute when we are good.

Unless: 1. They're great mentors to the young guys.

Or 2. We know for certain they'll continue to play like Darrell Green did.

That means Moss, Fletcher, Daniels, Cooley, Rogers, Sellers, etc. should be on the chopping block. Unless of 1. 2. doesn't apply because who can predict a career like Green's? Only guy you could, has arguably already done so - Fletch. With PD and the juggernaut about there too. Is it realistic to think they can go ANOTHER decade or so?

But I'd never cheer for any of these guys to be cut. (Well, I was for cutting Sellers for whiffing blocks in '09, but he proved me wrong in '10.) Take Moss for example. He led the league in YAC last season. Sure he didn't lead in YAC per reception, but the fact he accumulated so many catches, and didn't have a bad YAC per recp. either, just shows how important he is to our offense.

For much of Skins history since 2004, Portis was (with help from the OL/FB) our ONLY good offensive threat. During much of that same time, Moss has been our ONLY good WR threat. And Moss turned in great performances, year after year, with class, with no BS or controversy.

We probably ought to trade him to the highest bidder. While he still has value. It's the smart thing to do. Bring in the youth movement. I hate saying that in reference to guys like Moss.

edit: yeah Moss is a FA, so the choice is don't sign him, or sign and trade.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I doubt he was first. Running backs usually top that list. I'm sure he ranks high though, when you catch 90+ passes, those 2 and 3 yard runs after catch will add up. He was a great possession receiver for us last year, he just wasn't breaking big gains.

The top 10 WRs in terms of YAC, and their YAC average:

Eddie Royal: 6.5

Miles Austin: 6.3

Percey Harvin: 5.6

Greg Jennings: 5.5

Santana Moss: 5.4

Dwayne Bowe: 5.2

Steve Johnson: 4.9

Wes Welker: 4.8

Danny Amendola: 4.4

Reggie Wayne: 3.7

The top 10 WRs in terms of receptions, and their YAC average:

Santana Moss: 5.4

Steve Johnson: 4.9

Wes Welker: 4.8

Danny Amendola: 4.4

Andre Johnson: 3.8

Reggie Wayne: 3.7

Marques Colston 3.3

Roddy White: 3.0

Brandon Marshall: 2.2

Larry Fitzgerald: 2.1

I think you're doing Moss a disservice to chalk up his YAC to being little more than a result of a lot of receptions.

[Hitman21ST]

The top 10 WRs in terms of YAC, and their YAC average:

The top 10 WRs in terms of receptions, and their YAC average:

I think you're doing Moss a disservice to chalk up his YAC to being little more than a result of a lot of receptions.

I'm a little fuzzy on the difference between YAC and their YAC average and receptions and their YAC average...can you elaborate?

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I'm a little fuzzy on the difference between YAC and their YAC average and receptions and their YAC average...can you elaborate?

YAC is total yards accumulated after receptions for the entire year.

YAC average is the average amount of yards gained after each catch.

I broke the list down into the top 10 WRs in terms of YAC and the top 10 WRs in terms of number of receptions. Then I placed their YAC average after their names on both lists.

Kinda like listing the yards-per-carry after each of the top 10 RBs to see who gains the most yardage per carry. I wanted to see who gained the most yards after each reception.

Of the top 10 WRs last year in terms of receptions, Moss clearly averaged more yards after the catch...which would seem to show that it's not simply the number of receptions that caused his yardage total, or else the other top 10 WRs on that list would be right up there with him.

[Hitman21ST]

YAC is total yards accumulated after receptions for the entire year.

YAC average is the average amount of yards gained after each catch.

I broke the list down into the top 10 WRs in terms of YAC and the top 10 WRs in terms of number of receptions. Then I placed their YAC average after their names on both lists.

Kinda like listing the yards-per-carry after each of the top 10 RBs to see who gains the most yardage per carry. I wanted to see who gained the most yards after each reception.

Of the top 10 WRs last year in terms of receptions, Moss clearly averaged more yards after the catch...which would seem to show that it's not simply the number of receptions that caused his yardage total, or else the other top 10 WRs on that list would be right up there with him.

Sorry, still a little confused (I've had a long day..."debating" with OldFan and dealing with the mother-in-law...)

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/receiving/sort/receivingYardsAfterCatch

That list is the YAC totals for everyone in the league. Moss is the highest receiver (highest YAC). I would think then, that your lists are either mislabeled or you looked at something different than I did. If anything, he YAC per reception shouldn't be #1...Miles Austin had 69 receptions and 437 YAC, for an average of 6.3 YAC per reception. Moss had 93 receptions and 499 YAC, for an average of 5.4 (rounded) YAC per reception.

If I'm reading it right though, your first list is total YAC and your second list is YAC per reception, so I'm getting mixed up.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Sorry, still a little confused (I've had a long day..."debating" with OldFan and dealing with the mother-in-law...)

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/receiving/sort/receivingYardsAfterCatch

That list is the YAC totals for everyone in the league. Moss is the highest receiver (highest YAC). I would think then, that your lists are either mislabeled or you looked at something different than I did. If anything, he YAC per reception shouldn't be #1...Miles Austin had 69 receptions and 437 YAC, for an average of 6.3 YAC per reception. Moss had 93 receptions and 499 YAC, for an average of 5.4 (rounded) YAC per reception.

Austin wasn't in the top 10 receptions, though...and that's the list I put in my post.

Again, the comment was made that Moss' YAC wasn't too impressive because it was mostly due to his high number of catches...which is why I made a list of the top 10 WRs in terms of receptions, and THEN listed their YAC averages. Moss easily had the hightest YAC average of all the WRs on that list.

If I'm reading it right though, your first list is total YAC and your second list is YAC per reception, so I'm getting mixed up.

My first list is the top 10 WRS in terms of YAC...and then in parenthesis I put each WR's YAC average.

My second list is the top 10 WRs in terms of receptions...and then in parenthesis I put each WR's YAC average.

[Hitman21ST]

Austin wasn't in the top 10 receptions, though...and that's the list I put in my post.

Again, the comment was made that Moss' YAC wasn't too impressive because it was mostly due to his high number of catches...which is why I made a list of the top 10 WRs in terms of receptions, and THEN listed their YAC averages. Moss easily had the hightest YAC average of all the WRs on that list.

My first list is the top 10 WRS in terms of YAC...and then in parenthesis I put each WR's YAC average.

My second list is the top 10 WRs in terms of receptions...and then in parenthesis I put each WR's YAC average.

Gotcha. Thanks. Sorry about the confusion.