NFL.com:Redskins prepared to make run on big free agents after lockout

[Oldfan]

Colts had him all last-season he only started in games when a player was injured.

But, if he started and the coaches thought he played very well, that would obviously change their opinions. So, his standing from last year prior to starting is irrelevant.

You have no basis for your opinion.

[Mahons21]

I'm not quite sure what point you are trying to argue here.

We do a bad job developing and using young talent on our team. One example is Tryon.

I'm arguing that you guys are acting as overestimating Tryon's impact on a team with one of the best 4 man pass rushes in the league, the guy has started in what like 6 games?

Do you think you are roving we didn't do a bad job with Tryon by dismissing his accomplishments this season?

I'm confused by the question.

I think you're blowing Tryon's "accomplishments" out of proportion.

[Stew]

But, if he started and the coaches thought he played very well, that would obviously change their opinions. So, his standing from last year prior to starting is irrelevant.

You have no basis for your opinion.

Its an opinion, facts have basis, opinions are based on whatever the owner of that opinion chooses to base his opinions on, in this case an observation. He is just stating his opinion.

[Mahons21]

But, if he started and the coaches thought he played very well, that would obviously change their opinions. So, his standing from last year prior to starting is irrelevant.

You have no basis for your opinion.

He started in game 1, didn't play in the next 2 games, he starts again in week 8, then doesn't play in the next 4 games. That doesn't scream coaches have a bunch of confidence in a player, but to each their own.

If they had liked him more than the starter, why wouldn't they have promoted him at one of those instances? Hell why wouldn't they continue to even play him, not promote him to a starter but let him get on the field at least.

[Oldfan]

He started in game 1, didn't play in the next 2 games, he starts again in week 8, then doesn't play in the next 4 games. That doesn't scream coaches have a bunch of confidence in a player, but to each their own.

If they had liked him more than the starter, why wouldn't they have promoted him at one of those instances? Hell why wouldn't they continue to even play him, not promote him to a starter but let him get on the field at least.

You are straying from the point. Did I say he would start? No, I didn't.

You said he would not unless someone was injured; but you have no support for that opinion.

---------- Post added July-13th-2011 at 07:56 PM ----------

Its an opinion, facts have basis, opinions are based on whatever the owner of that opinion chooses to base his opinions on, in this case an observation. He is just stating his opinion.

Opinions can be supported with evidence or unsupported. I didn't say Mahons couldn't have an opinion. I asked if he had any support for his.

[moondog]

First off by no means do I want Holmes, Edwards, or any other free agent WR. I'm on the fence about Santana. I'd hate to see him go but I'd like to make room to carry our young guys at the position.

That being said I don't understand why anyone would compare Edwards/Holmes production last season to that of Moss/Armstrong as a reason for/against signing them. They played in a run first offense with a young QB. They were a winning team that played the Patriots and Dolphins twice a season. Two pretty good defenses with some excellent young DB's. Not to mention pass rushers like Cameron Wake. These are going to lead a team to stick with the running game.

The Redskins constantly played from behind so we were forced to air it out. The standard stats aren't useful in a comparison here. If we're going to use stats to determine the merit of signing any of these recievers we should be looking at # of drops, YAC (which is still a factor of the offense), broken tackles, first downs, etc.

You're right, we did throw the ball about 100 more times than they did and they are different offenses so you should go more by different stats. I'll try to address a few of the ones you mentioned and according to nfl.com. I do not see an area on their for YAC or broken tackles but I have read an article posted on here that Moss was #1 or #2 for receivers in the entire NFL last year in YAC. As far as first downs, Moss got first downs on 65% of his catches and was in the top 5 in the league in first downs...very comparable to Holmes 69%. Edwards was around 75% and Armstrong was close to 72%.

The only real problem Moss has had is fumbling. I know everyone says he drops a lot of passes. I would argue his drop % is pretty low based on the number of balls he sees. Unfortunately it does seem to be at inopportune times but I think that's more due to Moss looking to turn upfield and make a big play before he catches the ball than due to his hands.

My point is more just that the only FA receiver I want to see us go after is Moss. I still think he can hang with the best in the business and we have a good young group of guys behind him. Armstrong is definitely a solid player as well.

---------- Post added July-13th-2011 at 08:06 PM ----------

Ryan Harris or Jamaal Brown?

I think the talent level is comparable. Harris is 4 years younger and has played under Shanahan. So that's definitely a good point in that he may even have a better grasp on the offense than Brown and has less wear and tear although he did miss like 5-6 games last year. I'd say since they've both played for Shanahan and Harris is younger he'd be preferable. I'll be happy if we sign one of them but I think any time players are comparable it's better to go with the younger guy right?

[darrelgreenie]

Signing New York Jets wide receiver Santonio Holmes reportedly is the primary objective of Redskins

I'm one of Tana's biggest fans and I think we should re-sign him.

But, business is business.

I think Holmes is the better player and if we had a choice between Holmes and Tana I would take Holmes.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I'm one of Tana's biggest fans and I think we should re-sign him.

But, business is business.

I think Holmes is the better player and if we had a choice between Holmes and Tana I would take Holmes.

^5's dg.

I KNEW you'd come through and restore balance in the ES Force again buddy. You found the missing link and for that everyone else says "THANK **** FOR THAT! Now can you two take it to the Campbell levels and really steady this ship?"

Austin, Armstrong, Banks, Hankerson, Kelly, Paul, Robinson. If we put our money into ANY wide-out to compliment what we're building with that young core then we put it into our own and let Santana retire in the B&G. Certainly not the second tier Holmes.

dg my good man, YOU ROCK! (But your still at fault for Locker. I spotted him first so there!).

Hail.

[Conn]

What if Holmes cost 2-3 times more, which is likely?

[Higgs44]

Does any of this matter if we dont have a QB?

[Conn]

I firmly believe that if Holmes was in the 1st tier of targeted WR's, as Moss usually is (i believe) he'd be In the 1st tier of receivers production-wise.

[Laxpunk2006]

I'm one of Tana's biggest fans and I think we should re-sign him.

But, business is business.

I think Holmes is the better player and if we had a choice between Holmes and Tana I would take Holmes.

I agree that Holmes is the better reciever but I don't see why we would go after him now. We could have had him at a bargain basement price last season but decided to pass. Now that he has spent a year rehabbing his image and upping his value we want to get into a bidding war? I could have supported taking a flyer on him last season but the value doesn't seem to match up this year. I believe he has more value to NYJ than he would have here.

[TheShredder]

Moss is on the down turn and more of a slot guy at this point in his career. I wouldn't mind resigning him but he's most likely going to want more money than he is worth at this point in his career and the Redskins aren't throwing money around at aging WRs these days. They've already proven otherwise. If they really want a guy then they can go get him, but Moss isn't that guy.

[darrelgreenie]

If we put our money into ANY wide-out to compliment what we're building with that young core then we put it into our own and let Santana retire in the B&G. Certainly not the second tier Holmes.

dg my good man, YOU ROCK! (But your still at fault for Locker. I spotted him first so there!).

Hail.

I wish I disagreed with you all the way, but like I wrote in my previous post I like Tana and think we should re-sign him.

He was the cog that made our passing game work and if Mike Shanahan intends to be competitive he's gonna need offense.

But, if we can get Holmes for around the same price as Moss, then we gotta sign Holmes.

He's younger and I think he would be more productive then Tana as the focal point of our passing game.

BTW-

I clearly discovered Locker first.

---------- Post added July-13th-2011 at 09:19 PM ----------

What if Holmes cost 2-3 times more, which is likely?

If the cost is 2-3 times more then no dice.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I wish I disagreed with you all the way, but like I wrote in my previous post I like Tana and think we should re-sign him.

He was the cog that made our passing game work and if Mike Shanahan intends to be competitive he's gonna need offense.

But, if we can get Holmes for around the same price as Moss, then we gotta sign Holmes.

He's younger and I think he would be more productive then Tana as the focal point of our passing game.

BTW-

I clearly discovered Locker first.

Meh, what's 5 years in age over 6 years in experience. And Armstrong, Hankerson and (fingers crossed) a fit Kelly say "NO freaking way Jose!" to the notion of Holmes being a focal point.

And oh contraire my man, I spotted the new Titan (spits. BIG!) when, uhmmm ..... he was still called Jacob!

Hail.

[bulldog]

Well, if there are going to be a lot of signings let's hope for:

1. Nobody over 30 signed to a deal that will take the next decade to work off the books.

2. No head cases. If Albert Haynesworth, Clinton Portis and a host of other prima donnas are not enough evidence of who NOT to bring around, let's repeat this one a few times.

3. Nobody who is expecting the Redskins to reward them for what they did for other teams when they were being paid less. Players coming here need to give Washington 100% effort, not look at being in town as a pre-retirement party.

[Hitman21ST]

The Skins didn't do much "developing." I read that Darrell Green worked extensively with Tryon at the request of Tryon's mother.

John Beck worked out with Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees both of the past two offseasons. Are you willing to call him starter material?

[HLF]

Does any of this matter if we dont have a QB?

Sure. Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl.

[Hitman21ST]

Sure. Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl.

Even more amazing, that same year the Giants made the Super Bowl with Kerry Collins.

[HLF]

Even more amazing, that same year the Giants made the Super Bowl with Kerry Collins.

*In my Kevin Garnett voice* "Anything Is Possible!!!!!!"

[darrelgreenie]

Meh, what's 5 years in age over 6 years in experience. And Armstrong, Hankerson and (fingers crossed) a fit Kelly say "NO freaking way Jose!" to the notion of Holmes being a focal point.

And oh contraire my man, I spotted the new Titan (spits. BIG!) when, uhmmm ..... he was still called Jacob!

Hail.

Lol.

Seriously you wouldn't take Holmes over Tana for the same money?

I'm still kinda bummed he's a Titan, now I gotta add the Titans to the list of NFL shortcuts games I save on my dvr.

You can't still expect something from Kelly do you?

btw-

I still have faith in Malcolm

[Oldfan]

John Beck worked out with Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees both of the past two offseasons. Are you willing to call him starter material?

Just two tiny flaws in your attempt to put down my remark: 1) I didn't say Tryon could be a starter; I said Darrell Green said that; and 2) Tryon being trained by Darrell Green is not analogous to Beck working out with Brees and Rodgers.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Honestly man, I really like we're we sit as regards the receiving group. With Armstrong as the vet (all be it in age rather than experience), the 6 other talented guys 24 or under bode well going forward. Throw in two of the premier receiving TE's in the league, and backs from last year that proved pretty handy catching out of the backfield; and our receiving options look real good going forward. Honestly, be it Holmes or whomever I wouldn't add. That's why I say I'd put the money back into Santana or not at all.

And yes, call me a fool, but I still hold out hope Kelly is finally over his injury problems, will finally get on the field consistently, and reward the same faith I've held since we took what was IMHO a wise calculated gamble on his talent over his knees at the time by proving to the league this year he was the best receiver out of the '08 class. A big, athletic, deceptively fast, great route runner with outstanding hands. If he can stay healthy, I firmly believe he's still the real deal.

Hail.

[darrelgreenie]

Despite all our problems on offense our passing game last season was top 10.

Re-signing Moss or another top WR as the center piece ensures that the passing game will at least be as good as year.

Except there will be potential to have a dynamic receiving corps because of the significant upgrades from oldman Joey and Roydell Williams to Hankerson and Kelly/Paul/Austin/Robinson.

When defenses focus on stopping Tana(Holmes) and Cooley it will create favorable match-ups that put our young WRs in a position to succeed.

Of course I'm assuming competent QB play.

Which I readily admit is a huge assumption at this point.

[Reaper 21]

whos the new titan?