B55Green Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Being disappointed in a horrible play means he never played sports? Haha apparently so. Alot of ppl just look at Rex's 06 year with the bears and judge him on that up-down year he had. lol, like the **** it im going deep fan club above. He was alot younger then. Watching him last year in his starts I feel he is a totally different QB. His dession making skills have gotten much better. Unfortunately I don't see it. I'm sure he's matured more, but he still makes bad decisions on the field. Perhaps if he had more time (playing with the team) he would have been better, I'm not sure, but look at his last three games of the season, he went up and down just like in 06. Perhaps not as drastic, but still did: Week 15 - 25/43...58.1%....322...4TD...2INT Week 16 - 19/39...48.7%....182...1TD...1INT Week 17 - 26/44...59.1%....336...2TD...1INT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman21ST Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Unfortunately I don't see it. I'm sure he's matured more, but he still makes bad decisions on the field. Perhaps if he had more time (playing with the team) he would have been better, I'm not sure, but look at his last three games of the season, he went up and down just like in 06. Perhaps not as drastic, but still did: Week 15 - 25/43...58.1%....322...4TD...2INT Week 16 - 19/30...48.7%....182...1TD...1INT Week 17 - 26/44...59.1%....336...2TD...1INT :whoknows: 19/30 is 63.3%, not 48.7% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B55Green Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Sorry, that should have said 39, too close to the 0 haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman21ST Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Sorry, that should have said 39, too close to the 0 haha. ah...makes much more sense now :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xero21 Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 ...Why is everyone bringing up stats and wins and college championships and the like? The question is about who is more "physically gifted." Not "who is the better QB" or "who would you rather have start for the Redskins." Grossman definitely has the stronger arm, and Beck is probably only slightly faster then Grossman. So I'd have to go with Grossman overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahons21 Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Remember he was also in Baltimore and when you have a QB like Flacco doing well, you aren't going to be given a chance. If I'm not mistaken he was only in BAL fora year and a half, he was not only behind Flacoo but Troy Smith as well and they traded him to us for a player they cut later that offseason. Prior to that Beck was sitting behind the likes of Chad Henne, and Chad Pennington. When a team that has QB's like that and it still cuts Beck, it says something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enter Apotheosis Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Actually, Xero, Beck supposedly has a deceptively strong arm. He's a bit of a touch passer so you don't see too many rocket throws but he might actually have a better deep heave than Rex in addition to being more mobile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubbs Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 You know what's funny? The thing that worries me most about Grossman isn't his interceptions. It's his fumbles, followed by his completion percentage. I heard once that Rex has small hands. I'm sure that means "for a quarterback," but still, I completely believe it after watching him last year. I half-expected the ball to go popping into the sky every single time I knew he was about to get hit. Then there's the completion percentage. Most good quarterbacks in the league can consistently throw for 60% or better. (I don't mean that most don't have at least four or five games below 60%. I mean most manage to average at least 60%.) Rex... not so much. His picks get all the attention for the same reason that Carlos' "anti-picks" get all the attention. They're big plays. Luckily, Carlos at least manages to overcome his problem by being quite good in almost all other aspects of the game. Rex doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted July 5, 2011 Author Share Posted July 5, 2011 If I'm not mistaken he was only in BAL fora year and a half, he was not only behind Flacoo but Troy Smith as well and they traded him to us for a player they cut later that offseason. Prior to that Beck was sitting behind the likes of Chad Henne, and Chad Pennington. When a team that has QB's like that and it still cuts Beck, it says something.Beck was technically behind Troy Smith only b/c the Ravens drafted Smith (who was in line to be the starter ahead of Flacco prior to suffering a major illness) 2 years before Beck was even signed to the team by Cam Cameron.In the 2010 pre-season Beck and Smith were in competition for the back-up spot which later became a moot point b/c the Ravens signed Bulger. You make it sound like John Beck's situation with the Dolphins is somehow an indictment on his abilities as a QB. But, it simply an example of what happens to a rookie QB drafted by a regime that gets canned: they get stuck in limbo. The new regime goes with their guys. The Dolphins drafted Henne and Pennington was Parcell's boy. Anyway, how do you think Rex and Beck compare from a physical skillset stand point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedro Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 They both have an NFL arm, neither is particularly fast running but they can both scramble. Can they both take QB hits? Grossman can, not sure on Beck due my lack of knowledge on him. If the answer is yes I'd say they both tick all the required boxes without being stand out. I know the question is who is better physically, so I'll go with what I know now and say Grossman based on the extra tick for ability to take hits. I'd still play Beck over him due the cerebral part of the QB position, from watching him online over this off season he anticipates in the passing game and is accurate. That's been missing for a while in B&G and IMO is what Kyle needs for his O to shine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Rex at this point. What exactly has Beck done that show's you he's more physically gifted? A few preseason games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetThePointsSoar Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 I personally don't get all the Rex bashing - I mean are you talking about the fumbles and interceptions and stuff? Sorry, had to channel some inner Vinny for a second for comedic relief. But on a serious note, I stil lthink Rex has the stronger arm, so @ this point, I went w/ Rex. Maybe Beck ends up being the guy and shows us more, would be a nice surprise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted July 5, 2011 Author Share Posted July 5, 2011 Rex at this point. What exactly has Beck done that show's you he's more physically gifted? A few preseason games?What hasn't Beck done that prevents you from assessing his physical skillset?Its a fairly straight forward assesment: size, arm strength, accuracy, athleticism, running ability, quickness etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 What hasn't Beck done that prevents you from assessing his physical skillset?Its a fairly straight forward assesment: size, arm strength, accuracy, athleticism, running ability, quickness etc. And I'm saying there is nothing on film that shows me that except a couple of preseason games. The same thing Colt Brennen was bashed for. There isn't enough game information for me to assess him. I mean, his physical attributes (height, weight) are listed. I've not see him run. I've not seen him pass. I've not seen his arm in a real game. I've not seen his athleticism/running ability in a game. I can't just go on what the scouts have observed in practice. I've seen Rex play in games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted July 5, 2011 Author Share Posted July 5, 2011 And I'm saying there is nothing on film that shows me that except a couple of preseason games. The same thing Colt Brennen was bashed for. There isn't enough game information for me to assess him. I mean, his physical attributes (height, weight) are listed. I've not see him run. I've not seen him pass. I've not seen his arm in a real game. I've not seen his athleticism/running ability in a game. I can't just go on what the scouts have observed in practice. I've seen Rex play in games.That's cool.For me a guys arm stength is their arm strength wether in pre-season or regular season. I'm not asking to assess his decision making or ability to read defenses; for me physical skillset is apparent and can be easily assessed. That's actually one of the purposes of preseason: to assess players in live action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahons21 Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Wasn't able to motivate myself to continue the job search today, so I've spent the last 45 minutes or so watching Beck pre-season v Jets/Cards, and Grossman Cowboys/2nd half of GNats My overall observations: -Neither possesses over the top elite arm strength, but they don't lack NFL arm-strength either so I'd just say that'd be a wash. -Grossman in my opinion is clearly the more accurate of the two QB's and I believe this may be due to the next point -Beck is lighter on his feet but Grossman keeps himself in better position to get off an accurate throw when running with the ball. -Neither has ideal pocket presence, Grossman back-pedals the day away and Beck takes his eyes off down-field way too quickly. -Grossman appears much more confident in his throws, while Beck holds on to the ball a little longer -Beck doesn't seem to throw into the secondary much at all, only one pass that could have been caught that Austin dropped that I recall. Other random tidbits from watching those clips: -Jamaal Brown needs to be given serious consideration and offered a descent contract but not LT money that he reportedly is searching for. -Terrence Austin knows how to get open, I thought that when I watched his college highlights, and I'm a firm believer in it again after watching the pre-season clips. TA just has a knack for finding the soft-spot on the zone and giving his QB a nice throwing lane, I think it will be fun to watch him battle it out with Kelly this year for what I assume will be the #4 position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenspandan Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 bring back Colt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OuterBanksTarHeel Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 I'm not sure I understand the point in isolating a player's physical attributes from other intangibles, as if the "physical" is somehow separate from the brain when playing football. Arm strength is not just brute strength, for instance, because the amount of strength used depends on various outside factors. For instance, JC had a strong arm, but it didn't really mean anything when he constantly sailed the ball over WR's heads. This is all a fancy way of saying that I'm not sure I understand the larger point in isolating a QB's "physical" attributes and shutting down all potential talk about how those attributes connect to other factors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrelgreenie Posted July 5, 2011 Author Share Posted July 5, 2011 as if the "physical" is somehow separate from the brain when playing football.You're mistaking your assumption for my beliefs.This is all a fancy way of saying that I'm not sure I understand the larger point in isolating a QB's "physical" attributes and shutting down all potential talk about how those attributes connect to other factors.Hey dude, you're welcome to start any thread and discuss any aspect of John Beck vs Rex Grossman you like.I'm "isolating" physical attributes b/c I was curious about how the forum views judges their physical skillsets. I'm trying keep the focus on their physical differences because its much easier to judge and there are far too many other aspects of their overall skillset to fit into 1 thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetThePointsSoar Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 bring back Colt. Shoot me now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 I think it's a wash. Grossman has shown he can fling it and the players told John Keim or Rich Campbell that he has the stronger arm. Then again, could be Beck technically has the stronger arm but has to sacrifice velocity for accuracy when throwing more than 10-15 yards. Again, it's a wash. Neither has awesome physical gifts, but both have enough. Should be an interesting battle in camp. The media keeps saying Beck is the guy but I think that has more to do with Shanahan building him up and Rex not being under contract. The players certainly don't seem to be buying into the "Beck is definitely the guy" line out there. Cooley definitely downplayed that talk while going out of his way to praise Rex in recent interviews. I think it's very much an open competition and for better or worse, we haven't had one of those in a long time, even when we clearly should have. I think whoever wins the job will do better than people think. Let's just move on from McNabb and the drama and have two guys who don't feel entitled to anything fight it out for the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 It doesn't matter. Everyone knows this years starting QBS are nothing more than placeholders for the franchise QB that will be drafted in 2012. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooper Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 It doesn't matter. Everyone knows this years starting QBS are nothing more than placeholders for the franchise QB that will be drafted in 2012. I think it matters because I think either guy could surprise. Plus, even if we do draft a QB next year there is no guarantee they will start for day one. So if Rex or Becks plays decent, they could be starting for two years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paloosa Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_GrossmanCome no now Rex is easy to bash, but at least be honest. I am honest about it. Many Quarterbacks have done the same thing but haven't done a thing in the NFl. Grossman didn't win that Super Bopwl and it wasn't Grossman's QB play that got the Bears to the Super Bowl. So lets be honest and tell the real story about that team. It was the Bears Defense that got them there and not Rex Grossman. Also don't get me wrong, I watched Grossman during his college career and was very impressed by his play at Florida but I wasn't sure if his talent would translate to the NFL. The problem is that there are too many like Beck and Grossman to pick from and very little picks at a guy like Manning or Brady. So if Grossman is that good then why is he with his third team? Name a Florida QB that was coached by Steve Spurrier that did anything in the NFL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VetMinimum+Incentives Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 There is a hell of alot more to being a winning quarterback than physical talent. Case in point, Kyle Boller is more "physically gifted" than Joe Montana but who would you rather have (in their prime) under center for your team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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