JMS Posted June 2, 2011 Author Share Posted June 2, 2011 Some people are fools. He is physically gifted like no center has ever been. go back and watch the 2000 and 2001 Finals when he was hungry. Think about a guy that weighs 325 lbs who had a lightning quick spin move. He just never bothered to really work hard, this is my biggest gripe. To say he didn't have talent just misses the point. The most amazing thing to me is that with all that weight, neither of his knees ever gave out. I recall reading back when he was in his heyday other centers saying he took it easy on them because he's generally a really nice guy (and that if he wanted to he could have scored 50 every game). I agree with thtat, but I also think if Wilt or Russel had played in a time where players got so much money and has physcial trainers and personal cheifs and the like they owuld have been equally dominant as they were in their era's. They are all freakish athletes. Shaq arguable is the least athletic of the three, not the best and Russel and Wilt didn't have his advantages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticksboi05 Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 5th behind Kareem, Hakeem, Russell and Wilt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickalino Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 An arm is not a learned skill, it is something you are born with. I cannot throw a football 40 yards, and if i started today and worked for years, I would still not be able to. John Elway's laser-rocket arm is something he was born with, just like Shaq's enormity. But his arm strength-skill when he played was not what it was when he was born. He developed it to the point to where he could become a great QB. If he left it the way it in the condition he was born, he would not have been nearly the same QB, and perhaps not made it in the NFL at all, because pure arm strength does not make an NFL QB. Patrick Ramsey had a rocket arm, but he never even lasted as a starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I think he's top 5. I would go with Kareem, Russell, Wilt, Akeem and then Shaq. I like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABQCOWBOY Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 None of those comparison's are even close to what I was saying. You missed the point.All of those examples you guys gave involve taking away a talent, that Ryan, Gretzky, and Elway acquired themselves. I'm talking about taking away something he was born with, or had nothing to do with aquiring himself. All of your examples are things the guys had a huge role in aquiring. Shaq's height and heaviness - he had nothing to do with aquiring those (meaning discipline-wise....his laziness probably had something to do with his weight) And his height and weight are a majority of his game Fair Enough. Mick, that's like saying, take away Ndamukong Suh's 300 + pounds and what do you have? Not very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 But his arm strength-skill when he played was not what it was when he was born. He developed it to the point to where he could become a great QB. If he left it the way it in the condition he was born, he would not have been nearly the same QB, and perhaps not made it in the NFL at all, because pure arm strength does not make an NFL QB. Patrick Ramsey had a rocket arm, but he never even lasted as a starter. And Shaq was a much better player than Greg Ostertag or Mark Eaton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted June 2, 2011 Author Share Posted June 2, 2011 I like this. ( Kareem, Russell, Wilt, Akeem and then Shaq) except you got a six time champion in Kareem ahead of a 11 time champion in Russel. Kareem was better offensively... Russel at 6-10 was a better rebounder, and a better defensive player. Remember these guys carreers overlapped too. They were both in the leage in 69.... I think Kareem was top 3. Hard to put him at #1. It's very difficult to say Russels's Celtics teams of the 60's were better than Kareem's teams of the 80's. talent wise. The difference was Russel was the heart and soul of the celtics teams, Kareem was just another star for most of his NBA championships. Kareem won 1 championship in 10 years during his prime without Magic.. In twelve years in the league Russel won 11 championships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I see it as Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, Russell, Akeem. :whoknows: I think that's pretty much everybodies top 5. It's the ranking/order that's debatable. That's my ranking order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABQCOWBOY Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 except you got a six time champion in Kareem ahead of a 11 time champion in Russel.Kareem was better offensively... Russel at 6-10 was a better rebounder, and a better defensive player. Remember these guys carreers overlapped too. They were both in the leage in 69.... I think Kareem was top 3. Hard to put him at #1. Not hard at all. For the majority of the time Russell was in the NBA, there were only 10 teams. Kareem faced better talent each and every night then did Russell. It's not hard at all to put him at #1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 None of those comparison's are even close to what I was saying. You missed the point.All of those examples you guys gave involve taking away a talent, that Ryan, Gretzky, and Elway acquired themselves. I'm talking about taking away something he was born with, or had nothing to do with aquiring himself. All of your examples are things the guys had a huge role in aquiring. Shaq's height and heaviness - he had nothing to do with aquiring those (meaning discipline-wise....his laziness probably had something to do with his weight) And his height and weight are a majority of his game If you really think that Shaq didn't work hard as hell to develop his inside moves and footwork, you are out of your mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted June 2, 2011 Author Share Posted June 2, 2011 That's my ranking order. Your order sucks. Your best center in the history of the leage went 10 years in the leage winning 1 championship? and worse it took an additional arguable top 5 all time player to make him a consistant winner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I guess the question is really, if you were building an all-time NBA Team, which center would you draft? As much as I love Russell or respect Wilt, I'd take Shaq over both of them. He was a better player, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABQCOWBOY Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I guess the question is really, if you were building an all-time NBA Team, which center would you draft? As much as I love Russell or respect Wilt, I'd take Shaq over both of them. He was a better player, period. Of those 5 players, Kareem and Shaq are the only two that could not be stopped offensively by any of the other 4 IMO. Shaq because he was so physically big and athletically gifted and Kareem because you could not stop the skyhook. All of them were great but those two had an offensive game that no center in the history of the league could stop IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 except you got a six time champion in Kareem ahead of a 11 time champion in Russel.Kareem was better offensively... Russel at 6-10 was a better rebounder, and a better defensive player. Remember these guys carreers overlapped too. They were both in the leage in 69.... I think Kareem was top 3. Hard to put him at #1. It's very difficult to say Russels's Celtics teams of the 60's were better than Kareem's teams of the 80's. talent wise. The difference was Russel was the heart and soul of the celtics teams, Kareem was just another star for most of his NBA championships. Kareem won 1 championship in 10 years during his prime without Magic.. In twelve years in the league Russel won 11 championships. Russell is overrated to me. Just a little bit. His defense and championships put him Top 5 but not even close to No. 1. Russell gets personal credit for all those championships, but in reality he was just a cog in the best and most cohesive and best coached team of his time, maybe all time. John Havlicek, Bob Cousy, Sam Jones, Tom Heinsohn, KC Jones, Bill Sharman - those guys were a machine. Plus, there were only 10 or 12 teams in the league back then, not 30. All the players were smaller and less athletic than Russell (until Wilt showed up halfway through Russell's career). Russell scored only 15 points a game, on only 44 percent shooting, during a run and gun time when teams regularly scored 120 points a game. Dude is great and overrated at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Russell is overrated to me. Just a little bit. His defense and championships put him Top 5 but not even close to No. 1.Russell gets personal credit for all those championships, but in reality he was just a cog in the best and most cohesive and best coached team of his time, maybe all time. John Havlicek, Bob Cousy, Sam Jones, Tom Heinsohn, KC Jones, Bill Sharman - those guys were a machine. Plus, there were only 10 or 12 teams in the league back then, not 30. All the players were smaller and less athletic than Russell (until Wilt showed up halfway through Russell's career). Russell scored only 15 points a game, on only 44 percent shooting, during a run and gun time when teams regularly scored 120 points a game. Dude is great and overrated at the same time. I was about to write this myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
authentic Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I would probably put him second after Wilt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Take away his Height and 300+ poind weight, and how does he rank purely talent-wise ?? Not very good. Shaq was an athletic freak. He could lead fast breaks in his younger days and had awesome hands. I go: 1. Kareem 2. Russell (for purely sentimental reasons) 3. Shaq 4. Hakeem 5. Wilt (I think Wilt secretly kind of stunk) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
authentic Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I guess the question is really, if you were building an all-time NBA Team, which center would you draft? As much as I love Russell or respect Wilt, I'd take Shaq over both of them. He was a better player, period. You know what, i would have to agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Wilt has Russell beat in every possible statistical category. And when they went head to head over their careers, Wilt averaged 29 points and 29 rebounds per game. But Russell's teams were superior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
authentic Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Take away his Height and 300+ poind weight, and how does he rank purely talent-wise ?? Not very good. This is crazy...Shaq was VERY skilled for his size. He had various post moves, could dribble the ball, and was a pretty darn good passer out of the post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 I guess the question is really, if you were building an all-time NBA Team, which center would you draft? As much as I love Russell or respect Wilt, I'd take Shaq over both of them. He was a better player, period. I put Russell second on my list, because part of me is 72-year-old sportswriter. But I agree with this. Except for the fact that I would draft Kareem first. All anyone needs to know about Kareem is that he was the best player on championship teams 15 years apart. ---------- Post added June-2nd-2011 at 02:01 PM ---------- Wilt has Russell beat in every possible statistical category. And when they went head to head over their careers, Wilt averaged 29 points and 29 rebounds per game. But Russell's teams were superior. But Wilt had the basketball IQ of a grapefruit. Wilt was the most awesome physical force in the league for something like a 50-year-period. But his teams always underachieved in part because a) no one really wanted to play with him, and it was somewhat impossible to play with him. The only time he ever passed was the season he wanted to prove he was unselfish by winning the assists title. That's insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted June 2, 2011 Author Share Posted June 2, 2011 Not hard at all. For the majority of the time Russell was in the NBA, there were only 10 teams. Kareem faced better talent each and every night then did Russell. It's not hard at all to put him at #1. Excellent Point the league sucked in 50-69, only Kareem was in the league in 69 and still lost to russel in that sucky leage. And how many championships did Kareem win his first 10-11 years in that sucky league... ONE!!!! That's your best center of all time? Risse; won 11 championships in 12 years in the leage and the year he lost was the the 76ers team which is considered one of the greatest teams in the history of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 PS I never ceases to amaze me how little Kareem is respected. It seems like he is on everyone's list out of pure obligation even though he was probably the greatest high school player ever, was the greatest college player ever, and might have been the greatest NBA player ever depending on how you feel about Jordan and Russell. I kind of hate Kareem but feel like I've become an apologist for him. Note to players: If you want to be loved by historians, do not be a moody ********. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticksboi05 Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Hakeem is often left out of discussions of all-time greats as well. I just don't see how you can put Russell over Jabbar though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM72 Posted June 2, 2011 Share Posted June 2, 2011 Hakeem is often left out of discussions of all-time greats as well. I just don't see how you can put Russell over Jabbar though. Just about everyone who have posted have Hakeem in the top 5. If anyone's not getting any love it's Moses Malone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.