Thinking Skins Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 So, one of the most common arguments I hear about why people should convert to Christianity is the risk of eternal damnation in hell. And while I don't really subscribe to this way using fear to convert people to Christianity, I do wonder what it means. For instance, I remember learning about the Greek tale of the guy who was in Hades and his task every day was to move a boulder up a giant hill. I can understand how repetitive that is, how humiliating, or whatever bad term you could use to describe it, but the point is, dude has to be 'alive' to be doing that right? So when I think about eternal damnation, I think that doesn't that imply eternal life? Like, If I get sent to hell and die, then there is no next day for me right? its just that one eternal death, and I'm done right? Or even if its like the Greek mythology dude, eventually I catch wind of the game and am no longer afraid of whats going to happen to me. It may not be an eventful life, but its still a life. It could even be a life of an infinite number of deaths, where I'm being killed over and over again, but don't I need to be alive to die? At first I wondered this about an arbitrary person getting sent to hell, particularly a person like Hilter or Dahmer. But people will always raise questions about particular people, say that they turned their lives around like dude on the cross next to Jesus, etc. So instead of wondering about a particular person, I said, what about Satan himself. The head honcho of Hell. If his job is to be ruler of hell for all of eternity, then doesn't that guarantee him eternal life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain James Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 My short answer would be no. I suppose it also depends on your view of 'hell' too. In my opinion (and many others) hell is not a place of 'punishment' at all. It is simply a place that lacks the presence of God. If God is all things holy, joyful, and loving then hell lacks all of those as well. To be fully separated from God's presence and grace is what truly makes it 'hell'. The sorrow would be immense. There are many views out there so it's hard to truly say what the 'correct' solution is. No one will really know for sure until we reach the pearly gates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 Yes, everyone has eternal life.....where or what it will be is open to debate Unless God removes it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted April 30, 2011 Author Share Posted April 30, 2011 My short answer would be no. I suppose it also depends on your view of 'hell' too. In my opinion (and many others) hell is not a place of 'punishment' at all. It is simply a place that lacks the presence of God. If God is all things holy, joyful, and loving then hell lacks all of those as well. To be fully separated from God's presence and grace is what truly makes it 'hell'. The sorrow would be immense. There are many views out there so it's hard to truly say what the 'correct' solution is. No one will really know for sure until we reach the pearly gates. Ok, I get the separation from God's grace, but from God? Isn't Satan making bets with God about who his most loyal servants are? Seems like Satan's having a pretty good time too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techboy Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 1. In the traditional doctrine of Hell as taught by orthodox Christianity, Satan is not the "head honcho" of Hell. He has free reign on the Earth for a time, but when the final judgement comes, he's sent to Hell for punishment. The idea that Satan's in charge is likely seeping in from the Greek tales you mentioned, where Hades is in charge of the underworld (the medieval Christians loved their Greek philosophers and ideas), but like the "Philadephia Cream Cheese Commercial" view of Heaven as a place of clouds and wings, it's not accurate Biblically. 2. In the traditional doctrine as taught by orthodox Christianity, everyone goes on forever. One of my old Sunday School teachers used to say that the only thing to be determined was one's address. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubbs Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 Well, Satan's supposed to be a fallen angel, right? Can angels die? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardi gras skin Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 It depends on what you mean by "life", I guess. You could say that he is experiencing an eternal death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRSmith Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 No, the faithful are raised to immortality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polywog999 Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 You either die...or you are eternal. You cannot be considered dead and be getting a pineapple put in your bumm at the same time as "punishment." As for Satan, it should probably mention this in Revelations? ---------- Post added April-30th-2011 at 08:26 PM ---------- (Rev. 20:10) "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever." Yes, this is considered eternal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitman21ST Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 Ok, I get the separation from God's grace, but from God? Isn't Satan making bets with God about who his most loyal servants are? Seems like Satan's having a pretty good time too. During Biblical times, yes. Even today, Satan isn't in Hell 100% of the time. After the rapture, tribulation, and final battle between Heaven and Hell, however, Satan (and everyone with him) gets locked away in Hell, the place of Fire and Brimstone (aka eternal suffering). So, technically, yes (to answer the OP), but it's not a place that you can just "get used to" after a period of time and learn to enjoy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRSmith Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 You either die...or you are eternal. You cannot be considered dead and be getting a pineapple put in your bumm at the same time as "punishment."As for Satan, it should probably mention this in Revelations? ---------- Post added April-30th-2011 at 08:26 PM ---------- (Rev. 20:10) "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever." Yes, this is considered eternal. And if one goes back in the bible the punishment for disobedience was death for Adam and Eve Before Israel was put to choices good and life and bad and death amd Jesus talked about two paths one that led to life and one to destruction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 You either die...or you are eternal. You cannot be considered dead and be getting a pineapple put in your bumm at the same time as "punishment." What if he is a vampire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosher Ham Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 I am going to sit back and wait on this one. So far makes me less of a believer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teller Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 I've never considered this, honestly. It's an interesting question. techboy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 he already answered judging from his brevity, I assume he wasn't too impressed with the question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichmondRedskin88 Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 This is coming from a Catholic. I believe the devil exist in many different forms on Earth. I believe there are people who have Satan inside them. My mom and I truly believe my brother met one of them and she truly tried to destroy his life. So you could say I believe he does have eternal life but its a restrained one. He's kept in Hell but his evil ways are channeled through some people here on Earth. Going to hell would mean eternal suffering. I may be wrong but doesn't the bible mention the torture that awaits those in hell? Yes there are fallen angels Lucifer himself was a fallen angel taken down by My dude St Michael Lucifer is believed by many to be Satan. Lucifer was casted into hell by St Michael(who became commander of all of Heaven's armies as result) and is seemly stuck there but his evil ways live on through people on Earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickalino Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 Yes, everyone has eternal life..... Disagree, and from a biblical POV. Eternal death exists because it's spiritual death, not physical. Eternal separation from God is supposed to be the most severe form of torture, because He is the source of everything that is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 But spiritual death is not true death...but then life is not true life if it is not fullfilling More a matter of existing added I'm curious if you think people can be alive(here on earth) and spiritually dead? All depends on your definition of living Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teller Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 he already answeredjudging from his brevity, I assume he wasn't too impressed with the question I scrolled right past it, looking for his usual marathon answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
757SeanTaylor21 Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 But spiritual death is not true death...but then life is not true life if it is not fullfillingMore a matter of existing added I'm curious if you think people can be alive(here on earth) and spiritually dead? I believe that there is many people living anfld is spiritually dead. Ie, people who live in disbelief can be spiritually dead. To my opinion on the OP; every person has eternal life, including satan there will be an eternal life whether your in Heaven or hell. Your flesh is what dies, not your spirit. Adam was told he would be Made to dust as he was made If you think about it, when a person dies, doesnt in time the flesh decompose and be made to dust? But his spirit is what lived on and than was punished. So when your body dies, you still have that spirit that lives on. Eternal life with God or eternal life in hell. All depends on your definition of living Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 I believe that there is many people living anfld is spiritually dead. Ie, people who live in disbelief can be spiritually dead. To my opinion on the OP; every person has eternal life, including satan there will be an eternal life whether your in Heaven or hell. Your flesh is what dies, not your spirit. Adam was told he would be Made to dust as he was made If you think about it, when a person dies, doesnt in time the flesh decompose and be made to dust? But his spirit is what lived on and than was punished. So when your body dies, you still have that spirit that lives on. Eternal life with God or eternal life in hell. While I agree,there must exist a different state of existence,otherwise the spiritually dead would cease to exist upon physical death The dead in Christ are promised a new body. What about the unsaved?....does Satan have the power to grant a physical existence? This is one of those how many angels can dance on the head of a pin thingees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
757SeanTaylor21 Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 Yes we are promised a new body. We also became a NEW creation, so therefore that could be considered a "new" body. But the Bible has explained that the unsaved will not be entering the gates. Its gotta be a choice for us to whether we accept Him and become saved or reject Him and stay unsaved. Thats why Christ also explaimed that the gospel has to be spread to all nations so nobody knowing right and wrong can be falsely judged. But demons can take form of an angel of light, whethrr thatz to say he can become physical im not sure. ---------- Post added May-1st-2011 at 04:49 AM ---------- Excuse me, its early lol but right before i goin to sleep it ran through my mind what your asking Are you asking can Satan be in physical form? If so the Anti-Christ will be in physical form claiming he is of God and performijg miracles to deceive. So the answee would be yes he can and will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polywog999 Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 And if one goes back in the bible the punishment for disobedience was death for Adam and EveBefore Israel was put to choices good and life and bad and death amd Jesus talked about two paths one that led to life and one to destruction The question was whether Satan had eternal life. You could say that eternal damnation is a form of death - and it is death of the spirit...but you also have to consider that Satan will be tortured endlessly, and therefor must be alive. It seems to be a play on words here that will not really be able to be straightened out. As for it being mentioned earlier in the bible, someone should offer into evidence, oh, I don't know, scripture maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuyWithAPhysicsDegree Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 Assuming Satan is made out of baryons like the rest of us, he has a finite life of 10^39 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polywog999 Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 Assuming Satan is made out of baryons like the rest of us, he has a finite life of 10^39 years. Nothing like the "guy with a Physics degree" to help out a theological discussion with his smug analysis of the hereafter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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