ESPN 980 (Chris Russell): Next Redskins Quarterback : Ryan Mallett?

[GibbsFactor]

It's really the same argument with Cam. Does talent outweigh character.

[aarobinson]

who else, by comparison, comes to mind?

draftnik rated QB's who make boneheaded plays?

Well the list is long, has been beaten to death, and has guys on it like Jamarcus Russell, Ryan Leaf, Dave Klingler, Jimmy Clausen.

If I must make the inevitable comparison to a past NFL bust, I'll make it a really scary one: Heath Shuler. Very, very similar prospect to Gabbert.

[ronnix]

here in sec country, i have watched mallett from the beginning with his arrival at arks. yes, he has a strong arm suited for deep throws. that is his only attribute. he does have a attitude. seen it over the last three years. he cannot and wont move. does not like being rushed. easy to sack, and not only easy to sack, but, will give up the ball either by fumble or interception. he has not shown leadership qualities as well. he is for himself. he reminds of jemarcus russell when he was at lsu. the difference was at lsu, he was surrounded by very good athletes. mallett will need a very strong off line first off, and a solid run game. not good for the skins.

[mistertim]

If I must make the inevitable comparison to a past NFL bust, I'll make it a really scary one: Heath Shuler. Very, very similar prospect to Gabbert.

Can you elaborate on why, exactly, you think he is a "very, very similar prospect to Gabbert"?

[harvey57]

He reminds me of Drew Bledsoe. That's a good thing

[darrelgreenie]

Actually as a prospect Heath Shuler was better then Gabbert.

Shuler was one of the all time best QB prospects.

David Cutcliffe coached both Shuler and Peyton Manning and said that Shuler was more talented then Manning.

[mistertim]

Actually as a prospect Heath Shuler was better then Gabbert.

Shuler was one of the all time best QB prospects.

David Cutcliffe coached both Shuler and Peyton Manning and said that Shuler was more talented then Manning.

Interesting. So do you think it was just a football IQ thing, a work ethic thing? As far as Shuler goes, I mean. Sorry, not trying to hijack the thread. Just curious. Also wondering, DG, who would you compare Gabbert to, as a prospect as well as a current NFL QB? Two totally different things, obviously.

[harvey57]

Mallet is Big like Bledsoe.

Manning was ridiculous in college. Everyone knew he was going to be good.

Drew Brees was the one who surprised me.

[tex]

Rather take Locker. Mallett is raw meat to the eyes of today's rush linebackers. Dude is a statue.

[grego]

draftnik rated QB's who make boneheaded plays?

Well the list is long, has been beaten to death, and has guys on it like Jamarcus Russell, Ryan Leaf, Dave Klingler, Jimmy Clausen.

If I must make the inevitable comparison to a past NFL bust, I'll make it a really scary one: Heath Shuler. Very, very similar prospect to Gabbert.

all those guys you listed had very favorable TD/INT ratios coming out of college. i'm not sure where youre coming from.

if youre talking about guys with work to do in the smarts department, i'm with you. shuler had a horrible wonderlic score. but i think gabbert is a smart guy. russell and leaf, i would guess, arent.

i do get that you shouldnt fall in love with one aspect of a QB's game (i.e., arm strength, like mallett) or workout/combine warriors, you have to look at the whole package. but i think gabbert is rated highly despite his lack of being the best in any category, or putting up sick stats. in fact, he's criticized for putting up mediocre numbers considering his offense.

[aarobinson]

Can you elaborate on why, exactly, you think he is a "very, very similar prospect to Gabbert"?

I apologize for hijacking this thread, but sure, I'll indulge.

Both are fast for a QB, big arm, very smart guy that seems to not be a very perceptive QB on the field, and loved by Charlie Casserly. Gabbert is a little bigger, but Shuler made throws in college that Gabbert could never dream of. But they're both "measurable" guys--remember that in terms of raw talent, Shuler is still widely considered to be more talented than Peyton. But he couldnt get it done on the field. Tools arent everything. Mind you there were plenty more indications that Shuler could produce than there are with Gabbert.

[Justsomeguy]

No thanks.... Rather draft someone who doesn't have bust written all over him.

[Hitman21ST]

Rather take Locker. Mallett is raw meat to the eyes of today's rush linebackers. Dude is a statue.

How awesome would it be if the Pukes drafted him?

[darrelgreenie]

Interesting. So do you think it was just a football IQ thing, a work ethic thing? As far as Shuler goes, I mean. Sorry, not trying to hijack the thread. Just curious. Also wondering, DG, who would you compare Gabbert to, as a prospect as well as a current NFL QB? Two totally different things, obviously.

I don't know what went wrong with Shuler, I know we weren't a very good team. And just speculating here but I think for a guy who was used to having success and used to being liked he was a bit taken a back that people actually disliked him (hated him) for being a 'bonus baby' and the fact that he was struggling and we weren't winning was kinda a shock for him.

I think he wasn't emotionally strong enough I guess?

I think his profile as a prospect is similar to Carson Palmer.

Here's Palmer's profile:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2003/draft/players/14344.html

POSITIVES: Athletic passer who greatly enhanced his draft ranking as a senior. Sets up with solid footwork, poised in the pocket and throws with good mechanics. Patient, buys time for receivers and withstands the rush scanning the field to find the open wide out. Goes through receiver progressions, gets the ball to secondary targets and always takes what the defense gives him. Effective rolling outside the pocket, losing neither arm strength or accuracy throwing on the move. Spreads the ball around to all his targets and the passes have speed. Places his corner routes well, leads receivers with passes and overall an accurate thrower. Quickly sets up and delivers the ball off a three step drop, does not wilt as the pocket collapses around him and always looking to make positive plays. Sells play action pass, displays a good pump fake, and in control of the situation.

NEGATIVES: Very erratic with his defensive reads and understanding of the offense until last season. Needs to improve his long accuracy and is still prone to forcing the ball into coverage on occasion.

ANALYSIS: Combines the athletic skill, size, and arm strength needed to be an effective starting QB at the next level. May require some hand-holding and exclusive one-on-one coaching through the early years of his NFL career, but if coddled and handled in the correct manner, could be productive very early into his rookie season.

[Hitman21ST]

I don't know what went wrong with Shuler, I know we weren't a very good team. And just speculating here but I think for a guy who was used to having success and used to being liked he was a bit taken a back that people actually disliked him (hated him) for being a 'bonus baby' and the fact that he was struggling and we weren't winning was kinda a shock for him.

I think he wasn't emotionally strong enough I guess?

I think his profile as a prospect is similar to Carson Palmer.

Here's Palmer's profile:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/2003/draft/players/14344.html

POSITIVES: Athletic passer who greatly enhanced his draft ranking as a senior. Sets up with solid footwork, poised in the pocket and throws with good mechanics. Patient, buys time for receivers and withstands the rush scanning the field to find the open wide out. Goes through receiver progressions, gets the ball to secondary targets and always takes what the defense gives him. Effective rolling outside the pocket, losing neither arm strength or accuracy throwing on the move. Spreads the ball around to all his targets and the passes have speed. Places his corner routes well, leads receivers with passes and overall an accurate thrower. Quickly sets up and delivers the ball off a three step drop, does not wilt as the pocket collapses around him and always looking to make positive plays. Sells play action pass, displays a good pump fake, and in control of the situation.

NEGATIVES: Very erratic with his defensive reads and understanding of the offense until last season. Needs to improve his long accuracy and is still prone to forcing the ball into coverage on occasion.

ANALYSIS: Combines the athletic skill, size, and arm strength needed to be an effective starting QB at the next level. May require some hand-holding and exclusive one-on-one coaching through the early years of his NFL career, but if coddled and handled in the correct manner, could be productive very early into his rookie season.

They missed out on "good with money, will threaten retirement if not completely happy in system"

[KDawg]

KDawg: Kyle Boller threw the ball far, too.

R: Whats your point?

That a strong arm doesn't make a quarterback as you seem to have implied with the stronger arm comment.

KDawg: Bottom line is Newton has the same character flags as Mallett.

R: Newton is a first round pick so if they have the same character flags wouldn't Mallett be the safer pick at in the second round.

No. Mallett isn't as good of a prospect as Newton. And for the record, I'm not arguing for drafting Newton. I'm arguing for not drafting Mallett.

KDawg: Newton is an energetic guy that teammates seem to like. Mallett isn't.

R: You know this because you played with him? Are you his coach or team mate? Nope! You just regurgitate what you hear. What I heard, straight out of the dogs mouth (Newton) is that he refers to himself in the third person alot. Considers himself an Icon and an entertainer and travels around with a posey that would rival MC Hammer. I dont know about you but as a team mate that would get old. There is no I in team.

I've always talked to people that went to Arkansas and knew him. I don't care what Newton considers himself to be as long as he's a good teammate and his teammates like him. He can think he's a ****in' rockstar from Mars for all I care as long as he's well liked and respected in the locker room. I'm not sure he would be... But that would be my concern. The people I talked to at Arkansas say a lot of Mallett's teammates despised him. It is hearsay, but it's a little bit closer to reality than talking heads spins.

KDawg: Newton has a pretty strong arm, as does Mallett.

R: Mallett has a better arm. Period. Its not negotiable.

Again, arm strength is a poor indicator of a quarterbacks ability. Beyond a certain point there are diminishing returns. You have to have a decently strong arm, but you don't have to be able to throw the ball 80 yards from your knees, either.

KDawg: Newton struggles a bit with accuracy, as does Mallett.

R: Watch the combine and get back to me regarding accuracy

What specifically? Because I watched it. I saw Newton put the ball where he had to and his receivers didn't get there. I also saw him miss inside on a ball thrown towards the sideline (not a great throw.. In fact, that's a terrible throw) and he had some overthrows as well. His accuracy is mediocre. I didn't see Mallett, I was writing part of our playbook while tuned in. Newton was better than the 1/11 as he was touted, but still not great.

KDawg: Newton is a world class athlete, Mallett is not.

R: You are right there but but how many world class athletic quarterbacks have won superbowls? I would rather have a quarterback than an athlete.

Some things to note: There is no quarterback in this draft, in my opinion, who's upside is higher than Newton's. There just isn't. And again, that doesn't mean I want to draft him. Times are changing in the NFL. With teams running a bit more option/wildcat stuff the athletic quarterback is on the upswing. The world changes, you can hop on the change bandwagon or be left behind, it's up to the teams. But there are no Peyton Manning's in this draft. Mallett isn't in the same league.

KDawg: Mallett seemingly has a drug problem, that's one character issue that hasn't surfaced for Newton.

R: Did he ever pass you a dubey? Or are you just going off of what the media is telling you. I cant think of many young people who have not experimented with drugs in this day and age but because he seems kind of like a hillbilly the media is crapping on him.

I love how you assume I don't talk to people.

KDawg: Why even bring up those names? I can give you names like Heath Shuler to counter. You can't compare Ryan Mallett to those players when they aren't similar players. They fit in a category, but their character is far above what Mallett's will ever be. Their accuracy is also much better. They aren't comparable.

R: Then you can use your own logic for Newton as well but the only difference is Newton will garner a 1st round pick while Mallett a second.

I'm not arguing to draft Newton.

R: The guys I was refering too all went in the first round with the exception of Brady so you are comparing Newton to them?

I never used Newton and their names in the same breath. You did. Don't turn an argument around on me when I didn't even attempt to make it. Newton IS nothing like them. It's obvious. You're grasping at straws here.

R: So if you are going to gamble on an unproven talent with character flaws why not take less of a risk and take the guy with the better arm, who is more pro ready and sorry to tell you has a far more accomplished body of work throwing the football.

Less risk. Less risk, less reward. More risk, more reward. Newton won't be available and even if he were I don't know that I'd take him, as I've said. But, if you were asking me which of the two I'd rather have, I'd go with Newton. I just like him better as a prospect. You don't have to share that belief. I'm okay with disagreement there. But the argument you made above discounts all of the things Mallett does poorly. And where Mallett can't bail himself out with athleticism, Newton can. The problem there is that Newton might rely on it too heavily. Both guys are a risk, and truth be told I'm not sure I'd take either.

R: Just so you know thats what they get paid to do.

They do? Wow. I must know nothing about football.

[paloosa]

Why do you listen to Mel Kiper? What does he know about what an NFL player is? Is he right about players? No. Mel Kiper is just a blow hard that thinks he knows everything about what the ideal QB should be. He rates the guys from all the big schools high and never sees the Tom Brady's, Tony Romo sits to pee's, or even the Big Ben's of the draft as anymore than a journeyman. For god sakes he pick Ryan Leaf and JaMarcus Russell as a can't miss player. A proto type NFL QB.

[KDawg]

Why do you listen to Mel Kiper? What does he know about what an NFL player is? Is he right about players? No. Mel Kiper is just a blow hard that thinks he knows everything about what the ideal QB should be. He rates the guys from all the big schools high and never sees the Tom Brady's, Tony Romo sits to pee's, or even the Big Ben's of the draft as anymore than a journeyman. For god sakes he pick Ryan Leaf and JaMarcus Russell as a can't miss player. A proto type NFL QB.

Who is this directed at?

[jasjhughes]

Why do you listen to Mel Kiper? What does he know about what an NFL player is? Is he right about players? No. Mel Kiper is just a blow hard that thinks he knows everything about what the ideal QB should be. He rates the guys from all the big schools high and never sees the Tom Brady's, Tony Romo sits to pee's, or even the Big Ben's of the draft as anymore than a journeyman. For god sakes he pick Ryan Leaf and JaMarcus Russell as a can't miss player. A proto type NFL QB.

I'm not saying he is a good evaluator of talent, just that he is reasonably accurate about where a prospect will go. Would Brady have a been a good #1 pick. sure. But would he have been better in the 5th round (pats took him in the 6th) of course.

The same applies to Mallet.

Even if he is the best QB on the noard, why take him at #10 if you could have him #33 (and maybe pick up a third in the process)

That's all I'm saying.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Why do you listen to Mel Kiper? What does he know about what an NFL player is? Is he right about players? No. Mel Kiper is just a blow hard that thinks he knows everything about what the ideal QB should be. He rates the guys from all the big schools high and never sees the Tom Brady's, Tony Romo sits to pee's, or even the Big Ben's of the draft as anymore than a journeyman. For god sakes he pick Ryan Leaf and JaMarcus Russell as a can't miss player. A proto type NFL QB.

Fwiw, many people besides Kiper thought that Leaf and Russell were "can't miss prospects"as well. :2cents:

Heck, I thought Leaf was going to be better than Manning.

[Lavarleap56]

Really ? Ryan mallet... um no thank you. Mallet would be a good nfl qb if he came out in the mid to late 90's. Can certainly throw the ball around but lacking in to many areas. I've already seen lineman watching as Jeff George was being draged down the field. Ryan mallet/bledsoe doesn't have the mobility to beat the heavy pressure defenses and would get beat like a drum.

[texasthunder]

"Several personnel sources" tell FOX Sports' Adam Caplan that Blaine Gabbert would be a reach as a top-five pick.

"In fact," adds Caplan, "there are teams that don't have a first-round grade on him." Gabbert isn't as polarizing a prospect as Cam Newton, but there certainly are differing opinions about the former Missouri Tiger. NFL Network's Mike Lombardi -- a former personnel man with the Raiders, Eagles, and Browns -- believes Gabbert should be the No. 1 overall pick in the draft.

http://www.rotoworld.com/sports/nfl/football?r=1

[zoony]

I had been a big RM guy, but I've cooled on him quite a bit. Especially after that bowl performance.

Still, in the 2nd round if he's there, he would be a great pick. Just not at 10

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

"Several personnel sources" tell FOX Sports' Adam Caplan that Blaine Gabbert would be a reach as a top-five pick.

"In fact," adds Caplan, "there are teams that don't have a first-round grade on him." Gabbert isn't as polarizing a prospect as Cam Newton, but there certainly are differing opinions about the former Missouri Tiger. NFL Network's Mike Lombardi -- a former personnel man with the Raiders, Eagles, and Browns -- believes Gabbert should be the No. 1 overall pick in the draft.

http://www.rotoworld.com/sports/nfl/football?r=1

I would love for Gabbert to slide to #10 but it's not going to happen.

[Assassin 21]

I really like Mallet as pure thrower of the football. I also like his playaction a lot :

and

That is the kind of stuff that Tom Brady excels at if you watch him - he delivers excellent PA fakes. A lot of our offense relies on play action, so this is a plus for mallet. If he can prove he is smart enough and mature enough to play quarterback in the NFL I think Mallet could end up being one of the best QBs in this class. I certainly like him more than Gabbert at this point and this article seems to back what I think up: http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/09000d5d81eb3b06/article/intimate-conversations-provide-new-perspective-of-mallett?module=HP_cp2

He would make a good second round pick for us for sure but definitely not at 10