PeterMP Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 That seems the course set...it does come with the drawback of a massive trade deficit and funding despotsIt seems a strange choice for those that profess faith in alt energy viability. Nobody is saying that oil won't always have uses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runbyu Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 There has been a tremendous amount of activity by foreign companies buying up US natural gas assets lately...CNOOC, BHP Billiton, Tallisman, Statoil. Even Exxon Mobil bought XTO for 31 billion (all stock deal). Maybe the majors know something we don't? Seems like the folks with the money have pretty heavy investments in natural gas and are positioning themselves accordingly. Has the next energy resource been picked for us by big oil? Cleaner emissions, better for the environment (pending further fracking/water research),will create jobs. Seems like key elements big oil can lobby for while folks are demanding change when we hit $5 at the pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 NG reserves and markets have been changed by technology advancing and less barriers...the money naturally follows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deejaydana Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Yeah but that would mean investing in new energy and more efficent transport and paying American workers good wages and those seem to be things Republican oppose Great googly moogly. I hereby dub thee 'cliche boy' going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimmySmith Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 The left has overregulated and ecologically eliminated our most abundant forms of homegrown energy. The right has completely tied in our lot with cheap middle east oil. The average American is completely irresponsible in his energy consumption. They all complain about the other, but the symbiosis is fairly obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spec138 Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 What happenes when we run out of cheap oil? Will we be forced to be "energy independent" then? Eventually we're gonna run out of fossil fuels (not that I know when or how much time we have left) and I'm curious what our plan is for that. EDIT: ASF, I like what you say about regions be more responsible for their energy. I get to drive by thousands of windmills on the way home, it's quite a site at night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 What happenes when we run out of cheap oil? Will we be forced to be "energy independent" then? Eventually we're gonna run out of fossil fuels (not that I know when or how much time we have left) and I'm curious what our plan is for that.EDIT: ASF, I like what you say about regions be more responsible for their energy. I get to drive by thousands of windmills on the way home, it's quite a site at night. why do you think we will run out of fossil fuels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spec138 Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 why do you think we will run out of fossil fuels? Because there is a finite amount of resources available to us and the process which creates them takes millions of years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 10 years from now i see the United States being darn close. We are not a tiny European country of 500,000 people that bike everywhere. This is wide open range, fields of green... regulation and lobbying. I've always said the military bases closed should be used as Nuke plants and refinary and solar farms. Put them to good use vs. a one time land sell for townhomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Because there is a finite amount of resources available to us and the process which creates them takes millions of years. so whats the ceiling level then? Where is the level that it becomes finite and why do you believe that we can or even will hit it under the current direction of usage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Seems to me that the Obama administration is more interested in a 90 yard bomb to score the TD than pounding the ball 4 yards at a time. Solar and wind and tide technology sound great, but we're a long way off from any kind of widespread practicality there. Meanwhile, countries like Brazil have taken much smaller, more pragmatic steps. And they're winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spec138 Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 so whats the ceiling level then? Where is the level that it becomes finite and why do you believe that we can or even will hit it under the current direction of usage? I'm not sure what you mean by ceiling level. The reserves are finite now, and always have been, that's why they're called non-renewable. Here's a paper I found from 2002 that seems a bit more optimistic than most newer ones: http://crc.nv.gov/docs/world%20fossil%20reserves.pdf Even when assuming consumption remains equal petroleum reserves have about 100 years remaining. Some reports have that number as low as 43. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 You gotta admit President Obama saw the wisdom of opening off shore drilling. Then BP and Halliburton bit him in the ass within the month? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjTj Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Seems to me that the Obama administration is more interested in a 90 yard bomb to score the TD than pounding the ball 4 yards at a time. Solar and wind and tide technology sound great, but we're a long way off from any kind of widespread practicality there. Meanwhile, countries like Brazil have taken much smaller, more pragmatic steps. And they're winning. Well, to be fair, that has a lot to do with home-field advantage. Sugar cane only grows well in wet tropical environments, and processing sugar cane into ethanol is much more efficient than processing corn. Maybe we need to just let global warming play out so we can grow our own sugar cane on the shores of the Chesapeake Bay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardi gras skin Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Well, to be fair, that has a lot to do with home-field advantage. Sugar cane only grows well in wet tropical environments, and processing sugar cane into ethanol is much more efficient than processing corn. Maybe we need to just let global warming play out so we can grow our own sugar cane on the shores of the Chesapeake Bay. My grandfather used to grow a lot of sugar cane in south east Georgia. If we wanted to, we could convert a lot of poorly used land in the rural southeast into sugar cane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sticksboi05 Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 some of us have little choice in how long our present commute is. I was lucky to even find another job let alone one that is close by. The chances of me selling my house to move closer (which is the ideal scenario) are almost nil in the current housing market and economy.I'd give a lot to be able to move near my new employer I'm not saying it's everyone's fault. Gotta do what you gotta do. Just that we should expect more in terms of alternative transit options in non-rural areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 My grandfather used to grow a lot of sugar cane in south east Georgia. If we wanted to, we could convert a lot of poorly used land in the rural southeast into sugar cane. Used to be plenty of sugar cane down here spec138...assumptions on reserves change all the time as more and more is found....they might even break down and drop the purely fossil origin eventually Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spec138 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Used to be plenty of sugar cane down herespec138...assumptions on reserves change all the time as more and more is found....they might even break down and drop the purely fossil origin eventually Any links for theories on how fossil fuels were formed besides long-scale bio/geological processes? If there isn't any quick way to replenish the reserves we WILL run out of cheap fossil fuels, it's just a matter of time. EDIT: I meant to say something about your point on reserves estimate growth. What does it matter if the reserves are larger than expected? It does not change the fact that they aren't renewable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Any links for theories on how fossil fuels were formed besides long-scale bio/geological processes? If there isn't any quick way to replenish the reserves we WILL run out of cheap fossil fuels, it's just a matter of time.EDIT: I meant to say something about your point on reserves estimate growth. What does it matter if the reserves are larger than expected? It does not change the fact that they aren't renewable. Google abiotic oil...I had a thread on it yrs ago,if ya wanna search There is certainly proof the precursors of oil are generated in the earth's depths below any fossil layer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spec138 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Google abiotic oil...I had a thread on it yrs ago,if ya wanna searchThere is certainly proof the precursors of oil are generated in the earth's depths below any fossil layer I googled abiotic oil and most of the results were talking about the controversy or debunking the arguments for it. The wiki page's first sentence describes it as a discredited hypothesis. I admit I'm no geologist or petroleum expert so I'm not going to take a stance on this source of oil, but even I know that if there is no evidence of replenishing reserves (any evidence I saw showing this were conspiracy type posts on random blogs to a youtube video) from abiotic sources then you're still left with the problem of a finite source of fuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Google abiotic oil...I had a thread on it yrs ago,if ya wanna searchThere is certainly proof the precursors of oil are generated in the earth's depths below any fossil layer I just want to point out that even if oil is aboitic, we will still run out and might even be running out soon. There is going to be a limited amount of C buried deep in the Earth's crust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Tater Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Well, to become truly energy independent, ALL our trading partners and all of their trading partners and so on would also have to be energy independent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I admit I'm no geologist or petroleum expert so I'm not going to take a stance on this source of oil, but even I know that if there is no evidence of replenishing reserves (any evidence. There is evidence of replenishing reserves,but there is already a thread if you wish to hunt. Peter reducing it simply to C is perhaps the wrong assumption....time will tell....ya'll want to discuss it bump the thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 Because there is a finite amount of resources available to us and the process which creates them takes millions of years. Well, some say oil is aboitic. http://www.viewzone.com/abioticoilx.html ---------- Post added February-27th-2011 at 11:50 PM ---------- The days of cheaps gas are gone. Pretty soon $5/ gallon will be the norm and the low point as gas spikes take the price much higher. The dollar as the world currency reserve is about to end. I say that probably won't occur until after the 2012 election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Well, some say oil is aboitic.http://www.viewzone.com/abioticoilx.html Even if oil is abioitic, it is still a limited resouce. Abiotic oil requires carbon to be buried deep in the core of the Earth where extreme temperatures and pressures cause chemistry that doesn't happen on the surface. IF it happens at all. We have no idea how much carbon was captured inside the Earth during its formation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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