surferskin Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 steve young, on average, rushed 4.2 times per game. i wouldn't call him a running qb. We're talking about college QB's right? Pro prospects? Steve Young had more attempts and rushing yards in college than Michael Vick. I'm just trying to put things in perspective here. Also, trying to dispel the ridiculous notion that all fast scrambling QB's SUCK in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger187126 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 He averaged almost 60 yards and 1 td a game in college. That's a lot more that just being able to run. That's a fast scrambling QB. cam newton has thrown 211 completions and run 307 times in college. steve young threw 592 completions and ran 269 times in college. maybe it's just not the skin color. maybe they're different qbs? just because a qb runs doesn't mean he's a running qb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surferskin Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 cam newton has thrown 211 completions and run 307 times in college.steve young threw 592 completions and ran 269 times in college. maybe it's just not the skin color. maybe they're different qbs? just because a qb runs doesn't mean he's a running qb. You're really going to compare Young's 3 year totals with Newton's 1? Seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger187126 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 You're really going to compare Young's 3 year totals with Newton's 1? Seriously? listen, you're taking two guys who are completely different and saying they're the same when it's obvious they're not. steve young passed first, ran second. cam newton runs first, then throws. he runs a spread option! adrian peterson and trung candidate both tie their shoes the same way, but that alone does not make them the same RB. this is apples to oranges. steve young didn't run to make his bones in college, he was a passing qb who could take off. as we all have seen by now, cam newton is not even reliable when guys are wide open. without his legs cam newton is not a threat and in the NFL your legs don't mean nearly as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surferskin Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 listen, you're taking two guys who are completely different and saying they're the same when it's obvious they're not. steve young passed first, ran second. cam newton runs first, then throws. he runs a spread option!adrian peterson and trung candidate both tie their shoes the same way, but that alone does not make them the same RB. this is apples to oranges. steve young didn't run to make his bones in college, he was a passing qb who could take off. as we all have seen by now, cam newton is not even reliable when guys are wide open. without his legs cam newton is not a threat and in the NFL your legs don't mean nearly as much. So let me get this straight. It's fair to compare Newton to Vick because they're both fast scrambling QBs but when it's pointed out that Young actually ran more than Vick in college...it's crazy to add him to the discussion? cam newton is not even reliable when guys are wide open. Also, this is total bull****. The guy set the NCAA record for passer rating this season but you're going to judge him on 2 throws last night? One of which should have been caught anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 steve young, on average, rushed 4.2 times per game. i wouldn't call him a running qb. you mean scrambling once a quarter in college isnt the same as rushing 20-30 times a game? EXPLAIN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surferskin Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 you mean scrambling once a quarter in college isnt the same as rushing 20-30 times a game? EXPLAIN! That was his pro statistics. He rushed about 10 times a game in college. Again, he rushed more than Vick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger187126 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 So let me get this straight. It's fair to compare Newton to Vick because they're both fast scrambling QBs but when it's pointed out that Young actually ran more than Vick in college...it's crazy to add him to the discussion?cam newton is not even reliable when guys are wide open. Also, this is total bull****. The guy set the NCAA record for passer rating this season but you're going to judge him on 2 throws last night? One of which should have been caught anyways. first of all, i never compared newton to vick. quit getting so damn racial. vick can throw a mile and is more elusive than cam newton is. he also is a lot smaller which makes him more injury prone. newton has almost jamarcus size and yet remains incredibly athletic. he still is not a drop back and pick apart coverage kind of qb. he's never done it and that does not bode well for an nfl qb. lets check pocket passers vs. scramble qbs in the playoffs this year. let's check every year. lets see when the last running qb had success in the nfl. i just can't understand why you want to hitch your wagon to a guy like newton, calling him the next steve young, when he needs years and years of development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonArtest15 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 first of all, i never compared newton to vick. quit getting so damn racial. vick can throw a mile and is more elusive than cam newton is. he also is a lot smaller which makes him more injury prone. newton has almost jamarcus size and yet remains incredibly athletic.he still is not a drop back and pick apart coverage kind of qb. he's never done it and that does not bode well for an nfl qb. lets check pocket passers vs. scramble qbs in the playoffs this year. let's check every year. lets see when the last running qb had success in the nfl. i just can't understand why you want to hitch your wagon to a guy like newton, calling him the next steve young, when he needs years and years of development. Just curious as to what type of offense Sam Bradford was running at Oklahoma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 That was his pro statistics. He rushed about 10 times a game in college. Again, he rushed more than Vick. he had about 100 attempts in college right? newton just had 286. over 300 if you count the 22 from last night. and how many of youngs were designed runs or just broken plays? im not even sure you can call newton a scrambler, almost all of his runs are designed for him to run. young was a throw first scramble second guy. cam newton is a run first, throw if the guy is wide open guy lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger187126 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 That was his pro statistics. He rushed about 10 times a game in college. Again, he rushed more than Vick. cam newton threw 314 passes this year andrew luck threw 372. ryan mallet threw 411. jake locker threw 332. (and was dreadful) ---------- Post added January-11th-2011 at 11:29 AM ---------- Just curious as to what type of offense Sam Bradford was running at Oklahoma. spread, without the option. the same one colt brennan ran in hawaii. bradford 2007 341 passing attempts bradford 2008 483 passing attemtps again will you guys get off this stuff. just because something was similar or the same for two player does not mean they're the same player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Just curious as to what type of offense Sam Bradford was running at Oklahoma. bradford definitely came from a spread offense, but he wasnt a run around type QB. he also had insane accuracy and most scouts didnt see him having a problem in a pro style offense due to his highly touted football smarts (which at this point look correct). spread offense QBs are definitely scary, but it seemed like scouts thought there was less concern with bradford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Redskins Fan Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 :puke:Blackmon 1st, OL 2nd. Roll with Rex, Vince or Hasselbeck next year. Yes, they all suck. I'm not advocating any of them as solutions. Get the QB next year. Too many holes elsewhere and not enough talent at the position in the draft to waste a high pick. What you remotley trust Vince Young???? And A qb in hasselbeck that is clearly clearly on the downside of his career.. we have seen that movie this seaon And i have a low tolerance for rex grossman. . Get the qb now. And has Blackmon declared cause i hearing he is staying in school as of now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surferskin Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 first of all, i never compared newton to vick. quit getting so damn racial. vick can throw a mile and is more elusive than cam newton is. he also is a lot smaller which makes him more injury prone. newton has almost jamarcus size and yet remains incredibly athletic.he still is not a drop back and pick apart coverage kind of qb. he's never done it and that does not bode well for an nfl qb. lets check pocket passers vs. scramble qbs in the playoffs this year. let's check every year. lets see when the last running qb had success in the nfl. i just can't understand why you want to hitch your wagon to a guy like newton, calling him the next steve young, when he needs years and years of development. How was I getting racial with you? And you're right, you never compared Newton to Vick. It was BLC. But you were responding to our little back and forth, weren't you? Also, didn't he pick a part SC in the SEC championship game? He threw 32 TDs vs only 8 ints. Completely over 65% of his passes. Is he a perfect passer? No. But if you don't see his potential...well...actually, I just can't see how you can't. This isn't for you but more for the people that are sure Gabbert is a better pro prospect. What are you seeing? How is his bust factor smaller? ---------- Post added January-11th-2011 at 11:35 AM ---------- he had about 100 attempts in college right? newton just had 286. over 300 if you count the 22 from last night.and how many of youngs were designed runs or just broken plays? im not even sure you can call newton a scrambler, almost all of his runs are designed for him to run. young was a throw first scramble second guy. cam newton is a run first, throw if the guy is wide open guy lol. You should really do some research. We are on the internet here, right? Young had over 100 attempts a season. No, they weren't all broken plays...sheesh. ---------- Post added January-11th-2011 at 11:36 AM ---------- cam newton threw 314 passes this yearandrew luck threw 372. ryan mallet threw 411. jake locker threw 332. (and was dreadful) What's this supposed to prove? That Newton was more of a passer than anyone seems to give him credit for? 60 fewer passes than Luck doesn't seem like a lot to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 i dont ever remember really comparing him to vick either. theyre completely different builds, and vick is way faster. i did compare him to vince young tho, cause theyre both big athletic QBs that can run, came from a spread offense, and fooled everyone into thinking they were good lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surferskin Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 i dont ever remember really comparing him to vick either. theyre completely different builds, and vick is way faster. i did compare him to vince young tho, cause theyre both big athletic QBs that can run, came from a spread offense, and fooled everyone into thinking they were good lol. I actually think the Vince Young comparisons are pretty good. But what most people that use this comparison as a negative fail to realize, is that Vince's limitations as a pro are not because of his skill set. It's maturity issues. Vince was having a pretty nice season this year until he decided to checkout mentally. I like Newton to have a floor of Vince Young and his ceiling is the skies the limit. I think he's WAY a head of where Vince was as a passer at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 So let me get this straight. It's fair to compare Newton to Vick because they're both fast scrambling QBs but when it's pointed out that Young actually ran more than Vick in college...it's crazy to add him to the discussion? How many games did Vick play in? Young? Vick ran the ball 262 times in 20 college games. 13 runs a game. http://www.hokiesports.com/vick/stats.html Steve Young ran 269 times in 33 games which is 8 a game. http://www.totalfootballstats.com/PlayerQB.asp?id=4312 Cam Newton ran 242 times in 11 games! Thats 22 runs a game and almost as the entire careers of Vick and Young in 1 season. He's about 2x as likely to run as Vick was and 3x as likely to run as Steve Young was. http://www.totalfootballstats.com/PlayerQB.asp?id=1210291 I guess if you want to compare him with Steve Young, go ahead. Steve Young ran 2 times per Quarter during college. Newton averaged almost 6 runs per Quarter. Same player? I don't think so and a lot closer to Vick in playstyle than Young but I'd say Vick is way faster and Vince Young is closer than Steve Young, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger187126 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 How was I getting racial with you? And you're right, you never compared Newton to Vick. It was BLC. But you were responding to our little back and forth, weren't you?Also, didn't he pick a part SC in the SEC championship game? He threw 32 TDs vs only 8 ints. Completely over 65% of his passes. Is he a perfect passer? No. But if you don't see his potential...well...actually, I just can't see how you can't. This isn't for you but more for the people that are sure Gabbert is a better pro prospect. What are you seeing? How is his bust factor smaller? it's racial because claiming that the only reason people who don't agree with you that young = newton is because of race is simply using race to cover up the fact that you're way off base. cam newton was a record setter with his qb rating right? isn't that what you told me a few lines ago? tore up mighty south carolina on his way to 32 tds and only 8 ints. what a mark! surely it would be impossible for anyone to compare to such lofty passing numbers! newton is our baseline: 314 attempts, 3119 yards, 65.3% completion, 32 TDs, 8 INTs, 177.26 QB rating andrew luck is: +58 attempts, +219 yards, +5.4% completion, =tds, =ints, -7.1 QB rating ryan mallet is: +97 attempts, + 750 yards, -0.6% completion, =tds, +4 ints, -13.61 QB rating and for ****s and giggles since ron artest wanted to bring up a comparison to the offenses ran by bradford vs. newton: sam bradford (2008): +169 attempts, +1601 yards, +2.6 completion, +18 TDs, =ints, +3.58 QB rating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saqs Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 cam newton threw 314 passes this yearandrew luck threw 372. This is incorrect. Cam Newton only threw 280 passes this year. ESPNs total is wrong. Add them up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surferskin Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 How many games did Vick play in? Young? Vick ran the ball 262 times in 20 college games. 13 runs a game. http://www.hokiesports.com/vick/stats.html Steve Young ran 269 times in 33 games which is 8 a game. http://www.totalfootballstats.com/PlayerQB.asp?id=4312 Cam Newton ran 242 times in 11 games! Thats 22 runs a game and almost as the entire careers of Vick and Young in 1 season. He's about 2x as likely to run as Vick was and 3x as likely to run as Steve Young was. http://www.totalfootballstats.com/PlayerQB.asp?id=1210291 I guess if you want to compare him with Steve Young, go ahead. Steve Young ran 2 times per Quarter during college. Newton averaged almost 6 runs per Quarter. Same player? I don't think so and a lot closer to Vick in playstyle than Young but I'd say Vick is way faster and Vince Young is closer than Steve Young, lol. Look at Young's sophomore and junior seasons. He had more rushing attempts in those 2 season has Vick had in his 2 college seasons. For whatever reason, Young didn't run much as a freshman. Also, the reason Newton ran some much...is because he was Auburn's offense. He also threw the ball a lot. He made almost ALL the plays. ---------- Post added January-11th-2011 at 11:52 AM ---------- it's racial because claiming that the only reason people who don't agree with you that young = newton is because of race is simply using race to cover up the fact that you're way off base.cam newton was a record setter with his qb rating right? isn't that what you told me a few lines ago? tore up mighty south carolina on his way to 32 tds and only 8 ints. what a mark! surely it would be impossible for anyone to compare to such lofty passing numbers! newton is our baseline: 314 attempts, 3119 yards, 65.3% completion, 32 TDs, 8 INTs, 177.26 QB rating andrew luck is: +58 attempts, +219 yards, +5.4% completion, =tds, =ints, -7.1 QB rating ryan mallet is: +97 attempts, + 750 yards, -0.6% completion, =tds, +4 ints, -13.61 QB rating and for ****s and giggles since ron artest wanted to bring up a comparison to the offenses ran by bradford vs. newton: sam bradford (2008): +169 attempts, +1601 yards, +2.6 completion, +18 TDs, =ints, +3.58 QB rating You want to translate this mess? WTF are you trying to say. Also, unless you're BLC, I never said anything that could be considered "racial" to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Watched the game and came away thinking Cam Newton is going to need a lot of work before he is ready to start in the NFL. Wouldn't think of using more that a 3rd round pick on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LB Dizzle Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 So let me get this straight. It's fair to compare Newton to Vick because they're both fast scrambling QBs but when it's pointed out that Young actually ran more than Vick in college...it's crazy to add him to the discussion?cam newton is not even reliable when guys are wide open. Also, this is total bull****. The guy set the NCAA record for passer rating this season but you're going to judge him on 2 throws last night? One of which should have been caught anyways. It's not just two throws, but all of them... What last night proved is that yes he can hit a wide open WR (most of the time), but WRs in the NFL are not going to get that wide open. What happens is like it's been said many times on this thread and others, is that Cam Newton is a run first QB, and pretty damn good at it! So when that big of a run threat is in place him and his RBs, the defense is going to bite on it over and over again. So as you saw many times throughout the game last night and this whole year for that matter, Cam lowers his shoulder and fakes a run, bringing in the D, then pulls back and passes to a wide open WR. However, in the NFL that kinda monkey business will not won't work. The only non play-action or quick-fake-run passing plays I saw last night were little screen or flat routes. Cam Newton is a run first QB, and that's what he excels in. I could see him being just like Vince Young, maybe a little better, esp if he goes somewhere like Minnesota or Miami where he has a two headed monster RB core in place to try to keep that run first approach, so that he can excel in it, but don't expect him to go just anywhere and be great. As for our beloved skins, please pass on Cam and draft a real NFL caliber QB like Gabbert or Locker, yes Locker for he is a pass first, run second QB, which you need in the NFL's modern passing league... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger187126 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 This is incorrect. Cam Newton only threw 280 passes this year. ESPNs total is wrong. Add them up. ok, it says a different number everywhere i look. maybe it has something to do with bowl game or screens being misinterpreted. either way my point still stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DixieFlatline Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I watched most of the Auburn games this year and what other people have said is right...this wasn't his best game by far. He does have touch and incredible arm strength. I saw him on more than one occasion put the ball on a rope off his back foot. One concern I would have with him is his ability to play under center. That is not something Auburn really did. But he will be a first round draft pick somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebluefood Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 All I can is that this game hasn't changed my stance on where the Redskins should go with this draft. Focus in on the trenches this upcoming year, and then move out to the skill positions in 2012. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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