The Cam Newton BCS Championship thread

[JPCreativelab]

only wanted to chime in and say i think Cam got hurt before the 4th quarter, it was on a run, where he didnt fumble, he took awhile to get up, could see the pain on his face and he walked gingerly to the sideline...i think it was 2nd Q or possible early 3rd, dont remember the exact play.

[urblessed00]

Every qb in this draft...Cam Newton on down is going to be a project. Luck's not coming out and he had the best chance of being a "sure thing". Teams are going to roll the dice on these qb's and some are going to bust......................................maybe one or two pan out.........maybe one is a franchise qb. It's just not a science. You know who Cam Newton reminds me of? .............Cam Newton. We need to stop trying to box these guys and their skill sets. Locker= a right-handed Steve Young..............do what? Come on now. Even at BYU, Steve Young had someee accuracy. It's nice to give a general idea of who these guys could be? However, you have a bettter chance of doing the this guy reminds me of so and so....with someone like Luck. The spread option is killing the ability to compare. That offense is singlehandedly neutering qb's. They aren't under center. They can't read a defense from sideline to sideline. They are used to one read and go. I'm sorry, Newton appears to be somewhat accurate, but it's significantly easier to hit a guy who's five yards behind somebody, than it is in the NFL where most db's are on the wr's hip pocket and that's considered open in the NFL. Can he make that throw? That's the question. Can any of these guys make that throw? They all have warts honestly.

[The Tris]

The play where Newton was injured? Did you not watch the game? The defender threw himself in front of Newton but Newton essentially "made the hit" because he slammed into the defender. Their helmets collided pretty hard, and we were pretty sure Newton's eyes were rolling back a bit when he was sitting up, may have been a concussion-- he made his only completely errant pass of the game on an outside screen right after that.

Please, review the past 60 pages were I was discussing Newton for about 4 straight hours while watching last night. Unfortunately, I don't have a photographic memory, and don't recall the exact play where he was injured. I would like to know when it occurred, so we can know how many plays to "throw out" because he was less than 100%.

You know they count sacks against your rushing total? Maybe you're just trying to be obtuse. Cam had over 1500 yards rushing and 20+ TDs rushing. That's unstoppable in my book.

Wow, who's being obtuse here? Clearly, as last night shows, Newton's running can be stopped (by an inferrior defense I might add).

[tiger187126]

Of course their numbers are different. They run two different offenses. Cam also happens to one of the most athletic QBs we've ever seen. Is Auburn not supposed to take advantage of that ability and let him run the ball? You seem to want to use Cam's rushing ability as a negative.

first, he was arguing on the side of wilbon that newton = ben even though, as you've pointed out they are completely different. thanks for proving my argument.

second, his rushing ABILITY is not a negative. his decision of when to rush and how much he was allowed to rush by players that wouldn't be able to get water for nfl players is what concerns me. mike vick is faster and more elusive than cam newton, correct?

then how can green bay completely shut him down and turn him into a mediocre qb? it should be impossible by your logic.

you fail to realize that college does not equal nfl.

---------- Post added January-11th-2011 at 03:32 PM ----------

Wow, who's being obtuse here? Clearly, as last night shows, Newton's running can be stopped (by an inferrior defense I might add).

he didn't even know that until i posted it to explain why big ben had -77 yards rushing in a season. so all of his arguments predating my post were made without this knowledge. now he's pretending like it proves everything he's been saying anyway.

btw, newton takes a lot of sacks for being such an "efficient" passer.

[WSHRedskins3ATLBraves3]

I watched the game last night and paid particular attention to Cam.

Needless to say, I wasn't impressed. I saw the positives everyone talks about toughness, size and arm strength, but I saw a lot of weakness. He struggled with accuracy all night, he was not as dangerous a runner as advertised and he seemed to have a lot of time in the pocket or WIDE OPEN receivers on a lot of his positive plays.

When you couple that with the spread offense Auburn runs, I really don't want any part of him in the draft. I see bust written all over him.

I'm not confident in any of the quarterbacks in this year's draft, so I'm hoping we don't go that route with the tenth pick right now.

[RonArtest15]

i went to OSU, i would imagine i've seen more M(OH) games than you have.

but why am i even arguing this? i showed you that big ben didn't run in college and threw a ton more than newton, but apparently how they play the game isn't worth comparing, only their skill sets.

so lets go, what are cam's skill sets that make him a valid comparison to big ben?

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/534946-is-cam-newton-the-next-ben-roethlisberger#page/1

NFL scouts have taken notice as well. One AFC scouting director compared Newton with a two-time Super Bowl--winning quarterback from the Steelers. "Newton is Big Ben--like," he said, referring to Ben Roethlisberger. "He has the size you look for in a quarterback to survive the physical beating, and the ability to avoid a lot of the big hits. I worry about his [passing] accuracy; he misses open receivers. But he's got the traits, other than that, of a winning NFL quarterback."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1176386/3/index.htm

Cam Newton as Big Ben 2.0 (bruce feldman...ESPN insider)

http://insider.espn.go.com/ncf/blog?name=feldman_bruce&id=5887243&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fncf%2fblog%3fname%3dfeldman_bruce%26id%3d5887243

it goes on and on bro....I don't even have to type it out. The Cam/Big Ben comparison has some merit. You're 24, right? I'm assuming that you saw Ben's senior year at Miami when you were a freshman. If you watched him then, you'd know that this comparison has more legs than calling him the next Vince Young or Mike vick

Coming out of a spread - check

big arm - check

could EXTEND a play with his feet - check

How can you not see that the two are comparable? Cam is more of a project, but the upside is there IMO.

first, he was arguing on the side of wilbon that newton = ben even though, as you've pointed out they are completely different. thanks for proving my argument.

I quoted the Wilbon article because I agreed with him in the sense that it's easy and LAZY to compare a black QB to another black QB. I feel as though Big Ben is the better comparison, but people don't want to hear that. These skin-color comparisons have gone on for ages....I remember watching a ND game and BRent Musberger said that Jeff Samardzija reminded him an awful lot of Ricky Proehl...really? That's the best you can do? Again...there are PLENTY of people out there who can make a better comparison for Cam Newton than rather just calling him the next Jeff Blake.

[SkinsTribeVA]

Please, review the past 60 pages were I was discussing Newton for about 4 straight hours while watching last night. Unfortunately, I don't have a photographic memory, and don't recall the exact play where he was injured. I would like to know when it occurred, so we can know how many plays to "throw out" because he was less than 100%.

Wow, who's being obtuse here? Clearly, as last night shows, Newton's running can be stopped (by an inferrior defense I might add).

Dude I wasn't attacking you I was just asking if you watched the game (I only read the last few pages of the thread, no the whole thing).

But anyway, I'm not sure exactly when it was, but I want to say it was sometime in the middle of the 3rd quarter. I thought he definitely looked a little shaken up for a few plays after. I didn't understand at all why the coach didn't get him off the field for at least one play to take a quick look at him, make sure he wasn't concussed or anything.

Inferior defense? You mean the defense that ranked 14th in points per game and total rushing yards allowed in all of college football?

(Now I AM attacking you )

[hobbie8046]

Hey, look...another black QB. Let's compare them!:beatdeadhorse:

Ugh...dead horse yourself...since when was it illegal to compare two people just because they're black?

[surferskin]

first, he was arguing on the side of wilbon that newton = ben even though, as you've pointed out they are completely different. thanks for proving my argument.

second, his rushing ABILITY is not a negative. his decision of when to rush and how much he was allowed to rush by players that wouldn't be able to get water for nfl players is what concerns me. mike vick is faster and more elusive than cam newton, correct?

then how can green bay completely shut him down and turn him into a mediocre qb? it should be impossible by your logic.

you fail to realize that college does not equal nfl.

---------- Post added January-11th-2011 at 03:32 PM ----------

he didn't even know that until i posted it to explain why big ben had -77 yards rushing in a season. so all of his arguments predating my post were made without this knowledge. now he's pretending like it proves everything he's been saying anyway.

btw, newton takes a lot of sacks for being such an "efficient" passer.

One thing you just don't seem to understand, is that we're comparing prospects here. We're trying to project what Cam will do in the NFL. You think somehow by just posting player statistics, that ends the discussion. I disagree. I don't think anyone expects Cam to be used in the NFL like he was at Auburn. Of course he's going to rush less and pass more. I think he's comparable to Ben because because of his size, arm strength, toughness and accuracy. His rushing ability is a bonus.

---------- Post added January-11th-2011 at 03:56 PM ----------

Ugh...dead horse yourself...since when was it illegal to compare two people just because they're black?

Of course it's not illegal. It's just stupid and lazy. We've been discussing Newton for months now and I've heard him being compared to likes of Akli Smith, Senenca Wallace, Jason Campbell and Jamarcus Russell. It gets tiresome.

[tiger187126]

ron artest:

i'm having too many problems trying to get the quote thing right so i'll just address it here.

bleacherreport article: come on, seriously. bleacher report is not valid for anything. you could have written that article for all i know.

http://bleacherreport.com/users/352654-eric-edwards

that's the guy who wrote it. he's not a writer, just a fan.

the SI article is from a guy that writes nascar articles from what i can gather, so i might want to double check his "sources"

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/writers/lars_anderson/archive/index.html

and the insider one i can't read, but the last sentence i can read says it would be intriguing to compare the two.

i cannot believe that you guys cannot tell the difference between the spread and the spread option. it's a running qb vs. wide open passing qb argument. completely different.

but while we're at it lets look at spread qbs, with big arms, who are athletic.

would you like to build that list or would you like me, because i guarantee you that my list is going to be filled with with all the spread failures of which there are many.

---------- Post added January-11th-2011 at 04:02 PM ----------

One thing you just don't seem to understand, is that we're comparing prospects here. We're trying to project what Cam will do in the NFL. You think somehow by just posting player statistics, that ends the discussion. I disagree. I don't think anyone expects Cam to be used in the NFL like he was at Auburn. Of course he's going to rush less and pass more. I think he's comparable to Ben because because of his size, arm strength, toughness and accuracy. His rushing ability is a bonus.

just because he is big, tough and has arm strength doesn't mean he's big ben. that's a lazy comparison. that's the kind of thing that would allow you to compare him to jamarcus.

oh and his accuracy isn't on par with a guy like big ben.

[surferskin]

just because he is big, tough and has arm strength doesn't mean he's big ben. that's a lazy comparison. that's the kind of thing that would allow you to compare him to jamarcus.

oh and his accuracy isn't on par with a guy like big ben.

Of course it doesn't mean he's Ben. No one is exactly alike. But their games are more comparable than you're willing to admit. Cam also has the intangibles that make Ben a franchise QB. . He knows how to extend plays and he's a winner.

[elkabong82]

The similarities I've seen between Big Ben and Newton are both are tall and heavy, but mobile enough to avoid pressure as well (Newton being more mobile) and both are good at leading 2 minute drives. Other than that I don't see many other smilarities.

They ran different offenses, as tiger has pointed out, Ben has a more drawn out release with a good follow-thru, Newton is more of a snap of the wrist. Ben had good pocket awareness even in college, Newton doesn't seem to notice sacks coming from his side, he runs forwards at the snap sometimes when the run lane isn't there.

[JdoubleU]

Frankly, I think Big Ben is overrated. Granted he has two rings, but he had as much to do with the first ring as Trent Dilfer had with the Ravens title; as far as the 2nd ring, take away that final drive (great catch by S Holmes) & what kind of game did he have? As far as Newton, he looked bad in some spots last night- missing a sure TD was the worst of it. He has the tools, but he, like Tebow, Alex Smith, or even Dennis Dixon in PITT are a long way off from being NFL-ready due to the spread offense. Whoever gets him, better be ready for a long apprenticeship (3 yrs min.).

[RonArtest15]

ron artest:

i'm having too many problems trying to get the quote thing right so i'll just address it here.

bleacherreport article: come on, seriously. bleacher report is not valid for anything. you could have written that article for all i know.

http://bleacherreport.com/users/352654-eric-edwards

that's the guy who wrote it. he's not a writer, just a fan.

the SI article is from a guy that writes nascar articles from what i can gather, so i might want to double check his "sources"

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/writers/lars_anderson/archive/index.html

and the insider one i can't read, but the last sentence i can read says it would be intriguing to compare the two.

i cannot believe that you guys cannot tell the difference between the spread and the spread option. it's a running qb vs. wide open passing qb argument. completely different.

but while we're at it lets look at spread qbs, with big arms, who are athletic.

would you like to build that list or would you like me, because i guarantee you that my list is going to be filled with with all the spread failures of which there are many.

---------- Post added January-11th-2011 at 04:02 PM ----------

just because he is big, tough and has arm strength doesn't mean he's big ben. that's a lazy comparison. that's the kind of thing that would allow you to compare him to jamarcus.

oh and his accuracy isn't on par with a guy like big ben.

And just because he's black and can run doesn't mean he's a clone of mike vick or VY. I posted articles to support my argument, but you've found a way to discredit everything. Congrats. There are many more discussions out there where people have compared Cam to Big Ben. EVERY QB who is projected in the first round this year can be seen as a project. Plenty of questions surrounding Ryan Mallett, Blaine Gabbert, and the ever-regressing Jake Locker. There are anomalies to every spread "failure" to attempt to have a career in the NFL. Look at Drew Brees and Big Ben. Point is, NO ONE knows how Cam Newton is going to fare on the next level. He's a polarizing figure and either you love what he brings to the table or you hate it. Bottom line, folks are going to have to agree to disagree on this topic. Everyone is set in their ways, and it's going to be very difficult to sway an opinion another direction. Personally, I think he has a tremendous upside which is well worth the risk. Someone is either going to look like a genius or a fool 3-4 years down the road after the selection is made. We'll have to see how this plays out.

*Don't insult folks on here by being condescending. A lot of us understand the nuances of the game (spread option vs. spread)...You like stats but ignore his QB rating. Throwing 30 TDs in arguably the toughest conference in the NCAA is nothing short of amazing. Not bad for a "run-first" QB, eh?

[IronMike]

CN had a great college career at Auburn (and I cheered for Auburn in this game, and any game when they play Alabama), but I think/feel that he is like another Auburn QB: Jason Campbell. 4 plays from last night sealed my opinion of him:

1) his fumble

2) when he tried to kill a gopher in the end-zone with no pressure and no defender around the receiver

3) when he overthrew a wide open receiver on the double move

4) when he missed the hot read crossing the middle on a 5 yard pass on 3rd down, when Oregon came on an all-out blitz (contrast that with the cool presence of the Oregon QB in similar situations, but his was on 4th down when driving for the tying TD and conversion).

Yes, he has gaudy statistics form the toughest conference in college football, but I just feel very uncomfortable with his transition to the NFL. Last night reinforced that sinking feeling. As others have said on this board: draft big uglies with our top picks, not a qB like CN.

[1972FAN]

who cares the redskins are not picking him period, so I could care less about him or Luck

[SkinsTribeVA]

who cares the redskins are not picking him period, so I could care less about him or Luck

You don't know that, period, so everyone here could care less about your unsubstantiated claim.

[RocketCitySkins]

only wanted to chime in and say i think Cam got hurt before the 4th quarter, it was on a run, where he didnt fumble, he took awhile to get up, could see the pain on his face and he walked gingerly to the sideline...i think it was 2nd Q or possible early 3rd, dont remember the exact play.

I watched part of the game again today. It was the 2nd play of the 2nd half. There was also an Oregon player hurt on the play but I don't know if he made the tackle on Newton.

Right now I'm undecided how I think Newton's game will adjust to the NFL. I'm maybe 60% okay with it. I know he has the determination and he's very coachable. I've heard Chizik say several times that Newton has done everything the coaches asked him to do. His passing did improve during the year. In the last 5 games before last night he was 67% on passes over 20 yards. And I've seen him do something a number of times that I never saw Campbell do and that's hit players in stride.

[tiger187126]

And just because he's black and can run doesn't mean he's a clone of mike vick or VY. I posted articles to support my argument, but you've found a way to discredit everything. Congrats. There are many more discussions out there where people have compared Cam to Big Ben. EVERY QB who is projected in the first round this year can be seen as a project. Plenty of questions surrounding Ryan Mallett, Blaine Gabbert, and the ever-regressing Jake Locker. There are anomalies to every spread "failure" to attempt to have a career in the NFL. Look at Drew Brees and Big Ben. Point is, NO ONE knows how Cam Newton is going to fare on the next level. He's a polarizing figure and either you love what he brings to the table or you hate it. Bottom line, folks are going to have to agree to disagree on this topic. Everyone is set in their ways, and it's going to be very difficult to sway an opinion another direction. Personally, I think he has a tremendous upside which is well worth the risk. Someone is either going to look like a genius or a fool 3-4 years down the road after the selection is made. We'll have to see how this plays out.

*Don't insult folks on here by being condescending. A lot of us understand the nuances of the game (spread option vs. spread)...You like stats but ignore his QB rating. Throwing 30 TDs in arguably the toughest conference in the NCAA is nothing short of amazing. Not bad for a "run-first" QB, eh?

ryan mallet threw just as many touchdowns in the same conference. it's not a miracle. i just don't get why you have this love affair with a kid who is a horrible fit for the redskins. you do know that's what this is about right?

as i've said repeatedly, i could give two ****s what he does in the NFL, i don't hate him. i just don't want a project qb and it doesn't matter what race he is.

frankly this has degenerated into you and surfinskins pretending people who don't like cam newton are racist. it's gotten out of control.

you need to look at yourself and think, is this about cam newton as a redskins prospect or is this about a black quarterback.

because the way you two are talking it has nothing to do with the skins.

so take your qb race discussion to some other board that cares about things like that.

[bigricky3469]

I don't understand how he's not a good fit for anyone. Do u not think he is smart enough to learn the Shanahan offense??

Explain why you think he is not smart enough to learn Kyle's offense, I mean do you feel this way because he's black. What are your indicators?

[Conn]

Explain why you think he is not smart enough to learn Kyle's offense, I mean do you feel this way because he's black. What are your indicators?

First off, the guy you're questioning asked the same damn question you just did, in the post you quoted. You obviously misunderstood.

Second, the over-use (aka any use) of the race card in any conversation involving Cam Newton is ridiculous.

He's got plenty of questions and flaws just for his character concerns and his actual QB play...there's not even any need for something like race to factor into the equation. As if there ever is. :doh:

[Zzj]

i think newton could absolutely be successful, if he's drafted by the right team.

newton has great size and physical skills. i think most people would agree that his mot significant weakness is his character.

obviously, character counts at the quarterback position in the nfl. in college, it's easier to get by without giving it your all, mentally. jamarcus russel comes to mind. but players like russel and alex smith were drafted by coaches like lane kiffin and mike nolan; two young, first-time coaches that never had a strong influence on their team.

meanwhile ben roethlisberger, who was known to have character issues before the alleged rape incident, is drafted by bill cowher has already commanded the steelers offense through five post-seasons, including two super bowls.

any reid is probably the gold standard now when it comes to quarterbacks now with the emergence of vick 2.0, but it took a massively humbling event for michael vick's character to evolve. nothing like that has ever really happened for cam newton. he won the heisman, won the bcs title game, wasn't suspended, and is being talked about as a first-round prospect worthy of a contract guaranteeing him tens of millions of dollars. if anything, his ego is at a higher point right now than it ever has been.

but i still think newton could succeed with current head coaches like belichick, payton, ryan, tomlin, coughlin, and reid. look how many of those guys need a quarterback. maybe mike shanahan is the answer, but its hard to tell what his relationship with the team is like after one season. shanahan has always demanded hard work, which is why you'll see haynesworth leaving soon. the question is whether that could serve to improve newton's character or simply send him out the door faster.

in the top 20 picks of the draft, i think the only teams with a need at QB that also have strong enough coaching staffs for newton are arizona, tennessee, and washington. maybe minnesota, but fraiser is a first-time coach so i doubt it.

[KokoMike]

The latest article and photo of Cam Newton hugging his father at the stadium after the game, when Auburn claims that they had an agreement with Cecil that he would not attend the game, shows more than I want to know about Cam Newton. In the article, he supposedly was looking for his father at the stadium after the game. Which, I would guess, means Cam was in on it.

We need to let the Cam Newton family make their money on some other team's payroll. We have already had our fill of questionable characters. IMO.

[Kharnage]

One thing that people may not have realized... I haven't read through the whole 50+ pages of the thread but here is my big "pro scout" comment...

He tends to jump when he throws the ball when pressured. That short-armed throw to the open guy in the end-zone? He jumped... That missed receiver on a big 3rd down at one point... jumped

Everyone seems to be loving this guy but it looks like if he jumps in the NFL, his arm strength alone will not get it past pro DBs.

Just my 2 cents

[aarobinson]

It's absolutely insane to me that people can knock this guy for running the offense he was asked to run to perfection.

It's becoming a knock on him that he ran many designed runs. He was asked to run, and he ran extremely productively. So his runs didnt come from scrambles--how is that bad? When asked to pass, Newton hung in the pocket and passed at an extremely productive level and didn't even much need to scramble. He played within the offensive scheme both running and passing, and had one of the best seasons of all time in both respects in his first year within the offense. I don't believe it's a knock on one of the greatest college passing performances of all time that the player also had the greatest QB running performance of all time. Would you rather he not do what he's asked to do?

Another knock on Newton that I've been hearing is that he hits wide open receivers. Somehow this is not a knock on Andrew Luck, who was throwing lobs to receivers running free all season long due to Stanford's schematic dominance. Hey, I dont count this against either player. Do you guys not want a QB who can find and hit an open receiver?? We've had several QB's who couldnt do that.

This kid is the real deal. His arm strength and accuracy is very similar to Matt Stafford's and he has elite size and wheels for a QB. And he was unflappable in the face of national controversy. At 21. This kid has ice running through his damn veins. That's what I want in my QB.

I would draft him #1.