PFT - Obama applauds Eagles for giving Vick second chance

[DjTj]

Because Vick is more symbolic and is known. If he were to thank Joe, the Grocer for hiring a vet it would be a nice warm and fuzzy story, but how many would respond to it? Many would actually pivot and say what you just said again, "Unemployment is around 10% and he's thanking Joe the Butcher for hiring one guy! What about the millions unemployed because he's been unable to fix the economy!!!"

Mike Vick is just an example we all know and a guy who given his second chance is flourishing... you tend to notice guys in the spotlight.

This doesn't make any sense. Obama did not speak out on this publicly. There wasn't a press conference or even any official announcement. It was not done to be symbolic or as an example for anything.

He thanked Lurie in a private telephone conversation. I don't think Obama intended for this to go public. The only reason we know about it is because Lurie talked with Peter King. It probably wasn't even the main reason for the telephone call. It was just small talk before discussing the plan for using alternative energy at the Linc.

As Peter King reported:

Lurie said Obama and he talked football. "He's a real football fan,'' Lurie said. "He loves his Bears. He really follows it. He knew how Michael was doing. It was really interesting to hear.''

The Eagles announced last month they would run the first self-sufficient alternative-energy sports stadium in the country. They'll install 80 spiral wind turbines to the stadium and mount 2,500 solar panels. Together, those devices will power about 30 percent of the stadium's energy needs. In addition, a biodiesel plant will be built nearby and that alternative energy source will help power (along with natural gas) the remaining 70 percent of the stadium's power needs. In addition, the project to install all the devices will employ 200 people for a year in, obviously, a down economy.

Over the course of the stadium's life, the team believes it can save $60 million in energy costs. That was big to Lurie, who's aggressively conservation-minded. He told Obama he was happy to put a plan like this in place, but he wouldn't have done it unless it made some financial sense. "It's good business for us, which is the point,'' Lurie said. "We talked about policy and what he hopes can happen with alternative energy, and he raved about us being the first to put a plan like this in place.''

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/12/26/week-16/index.html#ixzz19QRXNeyO

[pointyfootball]

This I do not. I am pretty certain he is the same idiot self absorbed douche he has always been.

If that were a crime dockfan, we'd have to increase roster sizes to 200 in the NFL.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

No offense to dog owners, but I find it BAFFLING that anyone would be upset that Vick got a second chance. He broke a law, got the book thrown at him, served his time, and is working again. He did everything he needed to and deserves the opportunities he's being given now.

[HSW]

Well than ANYONE who ever got a DUI should get fired from their job and not allowed to work in that field again.

I think that driving drunk is just as bad if not worst than what Vick did.

[sacase]

You are right. Those involved in abusing animals usually don't continue that....they usually morph into mass murderers

So then by your logic people of spain are mass murderers becaue they have the bull fights, Dominican's are mass murderers because they have **** fights, etc....

Alot of countries allow animal fights....get over yourself.

[AsburySkinsFan]

You are about as partisan as anyone on this board.

If you had said "You are about as anti-Republican as anyone on this board" then I would have agreed with you. But, you make the mistake that since I hammer the GOP then that means I'm a dyed in the wool Dem supporter, and you couldn't be further from the truth.

And in fact are the very first person to bring the previous president into the discussion....but no, you don't think about that at all

You're right I did, and the reason I did is because I believe that the whole reason that this is even an issue with some people is because it was Obama who said it, as such I am saying that some of the people who are feigning such outrage about this are doing so because they are themselves responding out of partisanship.

[SnyderShrugged]

I dont like Vick because he was a Hokie (SU fan here) and is an Eagle now.

I agree with the President in some respects that we should give felons a second chance. I actually feel this way about all felons that show they have made tangible strides in turning over a new leaf.

As a Christian, I think its important to forgive even those we despise

[Kilmer17]

If you had said "You are about as anti-Republican as anyone on this board" then I would have agreed with you. But, you make the mistake that since I hammer the GOP then that means I'm a dyed in the wool Dem supporter, and you couldn't be further from the truth.

You're right I did, and the reason I did is because I believe that the whole reason that this is even an issue with some people is because it was Obama who said it, as such I am saying that some of the people who are feigning such outrage about this are doing so because they are themselves responding out of partisanship.

Ive tried playing that card. It's not allowed. You have your colors, now wear them loudly and proudly.

[Commander PK]

I'm about as Liberal as Margeret Thatcher, but I'd say that anybody that was going to vote for Obama isn't going to change their vote because of his views on Michael Vick.

If you read my post, I never mentioned anything about his comments changing the vote of somebody who was already going to vote for him. I do allude to the fact that those that probably wouldn't vote for him anyway, now have another reason not to vote for him.

If you really don't believe that some Americans would change their vote over something as relatively benign as a comment about a professional football player, who just happens to be a convicted felon, you are out of touch with reality.

Some Americans vote for who they think is the better looking candidate, or the one their favorite actor tells them they should vote for. The same people who take the "National Enquirer" as bible truth, and watch "Access Hollywood" every evening.

Those people

[Burgold]

This doesn't make any sense. Obama did not speak out on this publicly .

Well, that'll teach me to start at the last page of a thread

[Koolblue13]

Amazing how little people know about what Vick did and how much time he "paid to society".

Sad how people can ever cheer for him. It hurts my heart.

Guys like him, Big Ben, Little being in the NFL really makes me want to quit this addiction.

[Kosher Ham]

KB, It is because most people don't care that much about that situation with everything else we are seeing on a daily basis.

[Special K]

The moralist in me agrees with you, but there is another side to me that says... society deemed a price (so many years in prison and public service) he paid it and if a private employer believes his skills are invaluable than he should get his opportunity. If we don't grant our personal pardons after jail then we might as well make all sentences life sentences.

Oh yes, you're right. If a private employer wants to take that on, it's perfectly legal for them to do so. I definitely don't deny that. However, I certainly do not like it and I absolutely will not support nor cheer for him. I don't support the Eagles anyway, but if somehow I had done so before, I wouldn't now.

I have dated Jewish women and know many in my life. I understand that stance on things.

However there is no outrage for killing for sport. These people don't need alligators. I cannot crucify Vick for his actions and sit back and applaud others for killing innocent animals either. And I know you know this, but we do not need meat to survive or stay warm in this day and age.

Different from the electric chair, Firing squad, Lethal injection, Gas Chamber ?

Oh come on KH . You know there is a major difference between hunting for sport (which everyone I know who hunts actually uses their kill for food) and making a pleasurable sport out of torturing animals. Hunters don't torture their kill, it's a quick death and they take the meat. And it's legal when it's in season. Dog fights are brutal and to the death, and dogs who aren't up to snuff are typically tortured and killed. And it's illegal. People can try to draw parallels to hunting or fishing, but when they're broken down and closely compared, there are significant differences.

My bottom line big problem with dog fighting and people involved in that type of behavior is the demented mentality that one must have to involve themselves in that type of stuff. If you enjoy torturing animals in a prolonged, horrific fashion, there is something fundamentally wrong with your brain and you should be red flagged in the system. Just like sex offenders, IMO.

[Koolblue13]

My bottom line big problem with dog fighting and people involved in that type of behavior is the demented mentality that one must have to involve themselves in that type of stuff. If you enjoy torturing animals in a prolonged, horrific fashion, there is something fundamentally wrong with your brain and you should be red flagged in the system. Just like sex offenders, IMO.

You're right on with this post. Shooting a deer, that you're going to eat and throwing a stolen family pet, into a pit of extremely brutal fight dogs or slamming a dog on the ground repeatedly, until it's dead, because it wouldn't fight are incomparable.

---------- Post added December-28th-2010 at 05:30 PM ----------

KB, It is because most people don't care that much about that situation with everything else we are seeing on a daily basis.

I know. People will over look rape, torture and murder, as long as a person is going to entertain them and help them not think about life.

It's sad though and makes me want to stop watching football.

[Special K]

I think that depends who you talk to. There's lots of outrage surrounding bullfighting, dogfighting, ****fighting, and even simple hunting. It just depends on who you talk to.

I do agree with you that most of us are inconsistent in how and when we apply our outrage

Thing is, I don't see it as inconsistent (being vehemently opposed ot **** fighting, dog fighting, bull fighting, etc. but not so much hunting and fishing). To me, it has to do with intent. Intent in animal fighting is to breed and raise killer animals, enjoy watching them fight to the death, and if they aren't champion fighters, enjoy torturing them to death. Intent in hunting and fishing is not the pleasure of torturing an animal. It's a quick kill and it's for food (at least it's that way with all my family and friends )

I am neither defending or condoning Vick's behavior. I think it was pathetic and stupid. I just don't understand the guy still getting so much hatred at this point for his crimes against animals and not humanity.

I absolutely agree with you that a human life far outweighs the life of an animal. What I am upset with Vick about is the torturing of anything that is innocent, human or animal. I think torturing anything is sick and demented and indicates a fricked up mind....

---------- Post added December-28th-2010 at 03:42 PM ----------

Maybe I'm wrong, but doesn't "latter" refer to the second part of a sentence, while "former" refers to the first part? In other words, you're calling his friends "people that made mistakes" and not "losers." Either you screwed up and meant to use "former", or you weren't being as harsh as people think you were. Seeing as how you're defending Vick and saying he paid his debts, I'm going to assume you just screwed up and in fact meant to be a dick.

It's always one of my favorites when someone is trying to be a mean jerk and totally screw up and make themselves look like a jackass.

[elkabong82]

You're right on with this post. Shooting a deer, that you're going to eat and throwing a stolen family pet, into a pit of extremely brutal fight dogs or slamming a dog on the ground repeatedly, until it's dead, because it wouldn't fight are incomparable.

---------- Post added December-28th-2010 at 05:30 PM ----------

I know. People will over look rape, torture and murder, as long as a person is going to entertain them and help them not think about life.

It's sad though and makes me want to stop watching football.

That's a good point. I know we were talking about this on glb also, but I want to add though that none of us truly knows if Vick has learned the errors of his ways. We have to appreciate their environment growing up. Vick is from southern VA, Newport News to be specific. He's also from a low-income family. Both of those are major characteristics shared by dog fighters and the environments in which dog fighting, and animal fighting, thrive. Clinton Portis once said, in regards to the Vick fiasco, that you could find a dogfight right down the street in his hometwon in Mississippi. What I mean by this, is that our upbringing and moral stadnards are not universal in this country. There are plenty of people, especially in the poorer regions in the South, who don't share our views and don't hold an animals life to be anything significant. Now, the extremes to which it goes to, such as electrocution and slamming a dog in the ground until death, cannot be excused by upbringing. However, an understanding of how such people got to that point can be understood by looking at their background.

This is important because then it becomes moe viable to give these people a 2nd chance, and it especially becomes more viable that their ways can be corrected, and that it is more of a product of environment than it is some sick mental disease (because A LOT of people, globally, take part in such). I mean, we have the potential to make Vick a national reform case, which only strengthens those trying to end dog and animal fighting. Vick serves as a wake up call that those actions are morally wrong, there are consequences even for celebrities meaning the issue is taken very seriously, that it's not "just a dog."

I won't root for Vick because he's an Eagle. But I have found myself capable of forgiving his past misdeeds because he served his time and as of yet has not shown much indication that he will revert back. A lot of us have problems with Spanish bull fighting. I, for example, view it as a slow torture of an animal. My step-father, who is from Spain, views it as a sport, or an art form. He was raised that way. So again, environment and upbringing can lead people down the path that Vick went, and it's up to us to show the errors of that way, and holding Vick accountable was such a way. But, by our justice system he deserved a second chance, a chance to rehabilitate and make amends, so I have to disagree with you that rooting for the Eagles or Vick is a support for animal murder. Rather, I view it as support for 2nd chances and as support that rehabilition is possible, that people can learn the error of their ways and make attempts to recify.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/24/sports/football/24rhoden.html?_r=1&ref=dogfighting

All that being said, keep in mind I said I disagree and stated my reasons, I did not say you are wrong for your beliefs because I can't personally fault someone for being unable to forgive Vick because of how heinous the nature of his crime was. Your perspective on this matter is quite understandable.

[SnyderShrugged]

Of all the things to be upset at the President about, This seems about one of the silliest reaches I've seen.

[elkabong82]

Of all the things to be upset at the President about, This seems about one of the silliest reaches I've seen.

It was even a public statement, it was a private conversation between Obama and Lurie. Lurie just happened to mention it to King, so it became a national story. Those digging at Obama over this are, as others in here have stated, simply acting out of partisanship.

[Larry]

Thing is, I don't see it as inconsistent (being vehemently opposed ot **** fighting, dog fighting, bull fighting, etc. but not so much hunting and fishing). To me, it has to do with intent. Intent in animal fighting is to breed and raise killer animals, enjoy watching them fight to the death, and if they aren't champion fighters, enjoy torturing them to death. Intent in hunting and fishing is not the pleasure of torturing an animal. It's a quick kill and it's for food (at least it's that way with all my family and friends )

Have to say, though. Only hunter I know is my brother, and I certainly get the impression that for him, it's about the kill. Dragging the stupid carcass back to the road, hauling it off, paying somebody to carve it up, finding places in the freezer for the whole thing, and than eating it till you're sick of it, to hear him talk about it, certainly sounds, to me, like something he puts up with, so he can justify himself. A penance, so to speak.

I've never come right out and tried to go into more detail, because I think my disapproval of his hobby would come through. (And one of my expressions is that I am a Trekkie. Therefore I do not make fun of other people's hobbies.)

But the impression I get from him is that dealing with the remains is a pain in the behind, for him. It certainly isn't the purpose.

It certainly isn't a case of "he puts up with the hunting, and the time in the woods, and the stalking, because the food makes it all worthwhile."

[SnyderShrugged]

Have to say, though. Only hunter I know is my brother, and I certainly get the impression that for him, it's about the kill. Dragging the stupid carcass back to the road, hauling it off, paying somebody to carve it up, finding places in the freezer for the whole thing, and than eating it till you're sick of it, to hear him talk about it, certainly sounds, to me, like something he puts up with, so he can justify himself. A penance, so to speak.

I've never come right out and tried to go into more detail, because I think my disapproval of his hobby would come through. (And one of my expressions is that I am a Trekkie. Therefore I do not make fun of other people's hobbies.)

But the impression I get from him is that dealing with the remains is a pain in the behind, for him. It certainly isn't the purpose.

It certainly isn't a case of "he puts up with the hunting, and the time in the woods, and the stalking, because the food makes it all worthwhile."

I'm a pretty avid hunter, but honestly, I dont like venison prepared many ways. I get teased a ton because I typically will get the whole deer made into pepper sticks or sausage.

Personally, I love to hunt mainly because of being out in nature all day. I always feel great afterwards, even when I leave empty handed. I actually enjoy the work of dragging it out, field dressing and even tracking too. Its all part of the experience.

Is it possible that your bro in law may feel the same way too?

[Koolblue13]

Kabong, we certainly are familiar with each others opinions on this ugly topic, and as I've said before, if he actually "did his time", I would likely have a different P0V.

However, he did ZER0 time for animal abuse, dog fighting or anything cruel, which is the real problem. He did it for gambling. VA has a 3 year sentence that was suspended and he should have done more time in the Fed as well.

But, because he was good at a game, it's overlooked. I have a hard time seeing the images of the pile of dead dogs he is responsible for and overlooking it.

[Larry]

I'm a pretty avid hunter, but honestly, I dont like venison prepared many ways. I get teased a ton because I typically will get the whole deer made into pepper sticks or sausage.

Personally, I love to hunt mainly because of being out in nature all day. I always feel great afterwards, even when I leave empty handed. I actually enjoy the work of dragging it out, field dressing and even tracking too. Its all part of the experience.

Is it possible that your bro in law may feel the same way too?

Oh, I enjoy hiking and camping, myself. The quiet. The feeling that you're seeing something that only a tiny fraction of people have ever seen, because they didn't get out of their car.

I just don't feel the urge to carry a scope-sighted rifle, and kill things.

(Must be one of them liberal hippies.)

[SnyderShrugged]

Oh, I enjoy hiking and camping, myself. The quiet. The feeling that you're seeing something that only a tiny fraction of people have ever seen, because they didn't get out of their car.

I just don't feel the urge to carry a scope-sighted rifle, and kill things.

(Must be one of them liberal hippies.)

Nah, hunting isnt for everyone, thats for sure. But in general, most hunters are the epitome of conservationists and care deeply for the well being of natural surroundings (myself included)

[Special K]

Have to say, though. Only hunter I know is my brother, and I certainly get the impression that for him, it's about the kill. Dragging the stupid carcass back to the road, hauling it off, paying somebody to carve it up, finding places in the freezer for the whole thing, and than eating it till you're sick of it, to hear him talk about it, certainly sounds, to me, like something he puts up with, so he can justify himself. A penance, so to speak.

But the impression I get from him is that dealing with the remains is a pain in the behind, for him. It certainly isn't the purpose.

It certainly isn't a case of "he puts up with the hunting, and the time in the woods, and the stalking, because the food makes it all worthwhile."

Well, there are multiple reasons my family and friends hunt (disclaimer: I don't hunt myself, I'm not particularly fond of killing animals, personally, although I enjoy fishing ). The reasons I always hear them talk about and the impression I get from all of them is that they love to be out in nature, they love spending quality time with friends and family they are hunting with, they love the challenge of tracking an animal, they love tracking different animals, and they very much enjoy the prize of a successful hunt (food, fur, stuffed animal).

Their joy does not come from torturing the animal or gleefully watch it die a horrific and painful death.

The difference in intent is the difference between these two types of animal sports.

[elkabong82]

Kabong, we certainly are familiar with each others opinions on this ugly topic, and as I've said before, if he actually "did his time", I would likely have a different P0V.

However, he did ZER0 time for animal abuse, dog fighting or anything cruel, which is the real problem. He did it for gambling. VA has a 3 year sentence that was suspended and he should have done more time in the Fed as well.

But, because he was good at a game, it's overlooked. I have a hard time seeing the images of the pile of dead dogs he is responsible for and overlooking it.

That's a problem with the South in general: loose or too few/ too lenient animal crulty/abuse laws. It's why animal fighting thrived in the South moreso than any other region (though in recent years the South has gotten better with the laws). The justice system should be faulted for not being extensive enough. Kind of like with Al Capone being caught on tax evasion, while it wasn't a conviction on the serious crimes, it was enough to do the necessary damage.

I love dogs, and animals in general. The cruelty that ensued under Vick's dog fighting ring are almost unfathomable. It truly is disgusting and abhorbale what occurred. But you seem to be faulting Vick over the sentence when that fault lies with the justice system, VA laws, and the judge.

Vick at least has made attempts to make amends and end future dog fighting by speaking out at schools, which I provided a link for. His success will always be tainted by his past actions, but the national spotlight is helping in that it's bringing more attention to dog fighting and showing people that even a sports celebrity will see time and that dog fighting is not only morally wrong, but also is soemthing that brands you for the rest of your life.

I agree he should have done more time, I can't fault you or others for not being willing to forgive Vick, but again I personally have forgiven Vick because he served ample time according to the justice system and has been making attempts to rectify his misdeeds. A national celebrity once guilty of dogfighting, who had everything and lost it (on the field, financially, reputation, etc.), is now speaking out against dog fighting and regaining what he lost (though he can never fully regain), and I think that will do more good in preventing dog fighting than locking him up for 3-5 more years and never hearing from again would, again in terms of ending dog fighting. Although I will admit it could be just me looking for a silver lining.